Cumin (Cuminum cyminum): Possible PEM Blocker

[Mel9]

I make a tea with 1 teaspoon whole cumin seeds (Herbie's Spices, produce of India, packed in Australia)
I get 2 cups of tea from the teapot.

 

[Wishful]

Yes @drob31, that's 3-5 diiodothyronine. It's created in the body from T3, and also is produced in the thyroid gland. It's not easy to find, but someone found a new source ( http://mindandmuscle.net/articles/product/t2-fat-burner/ ). I haven't tried that product. When my last few capsules of my previous souce (T2 Xtreme) is gone, I'll probably just use iodine instead, since it has the same effect for me. If you have some form of iodine supplement readily available, you could try that and see if it has an effect on you. I haven't heard of any other ME/CFS victim mentioning a benefit from T2 or iodine, so it could just be specific for me. I thought it was worth a try, and it turned out to work for me.

 

[Wishful]

I hadn't considered that more expensive brands of cumin might taste better. My guess is that the more expensive bottled versions in the grocery store are probably not much better than the cheap bagged stuff. If I come across something that looks like it might be better quality, I'll give it a try. Small-town shopping doesn't offer much variety.

 

[drob31]

Yes @drob31, that's 3-5 diiodothyronine. It's created in the body from T3, and also is produced in the thyroid gland. It's not easy to find, but someone found a new source ( http://mindandmuscle.net/articles/product/t2-fat-burner/ ). I haven't tried that product. When my last few capsules of my previous souce (T2 Xtreme) is gone, I'll probably just use iodine instead, since it has the same effect for me. If you have some form of iodine supplement readily available, you could try that and see if it has an effect on you. I haven't heard of any other ME/CFS victim mentioning a benefit from T2 or iodine, so it could just be specific for me. I thought it was worth a try, and it turned out to work for me.

I tried iodoral at a very high dose 12 mgs for a few days along with tyrosine a few years ago and I had 100% energy for a few days, but then I crashed again and went hypothyroid for a few weeks.

 

[Wishful]

That was my experience with supplemental iodine (tincture seems to be the same as iodoral, but I don't know how much is in a droplet): an amazing boost the first time I tried it, but if I took it every day, it didn't work. It no longer gives me that amazing boost, but it does prevent an increase in symptom severity, every 21 days. You might experiment to see whether a single dose provides you with some benefit, and if it does, you can try to figure out how often you can take it for a benefit. The failure of daily doses doesn't mean that can't be of benefit at a proper rate.

 

[Runner5]

I kept up with iodine until I had scary symptoms and my fingernails started cracking and peeling and my skin was terrible. No benefits in energy for me. I took a deep cold water sea-weed iodine supplement, maybe that made a difference.

 

[Wishful]

I try to find minimal effective doses for drugs or other supplements for just that reason: I don't know what bad things taking more might do. When I was taking LDN, I found the minimal dosage needed for full effects, then found that I could reduce that by a third if I took it sublingually, and then found that one dose lasted a bit less than 48 hrs, so I alternated morning and evening every second day. I don't know whether taking the prescribed dose would have caused any negative effects, but I did what I could to minimize my usage.

I still wonder whether if I'd started with minimal doses of cumin, waiting until the previous one wore off, rather than taking a heaping tsp or more every day, when I first tried it ten or so years ago, it might not have stopped working after a couple of weeks.

 

[Strawberry]

Cumin only works on me for about 3 hours. Anyone know why? I've been in a crash for a few weeks, and keep pushing through (I must work) so I know its partially me. But I was hoping this would slowly pull me out of my hole. I take a teaspoon of ground....

 

[drob31]

I kept up with iodine until I had scary symptoms and my fingernails started cracking and peeling and my skin was terrible. No benefits in energy for me. I took a deep cold water sea-weed iodine supplement, maybe that made a difference.

you were most likely going hypo. Too much iodine can cause hypothyroidism if things are working right or if other co-factors are missing. And not enough does the same.

 

[Wishful]

I don't even have theory for what cumin is doing biochemically, so it's kind of hard to figure out why it doesn't last longer for you. How soon does it start having a positive effect? Is it reducing the severity of your ME/CFS symptoms or the PEM symptoms or both?

 

[Wishful]

Two days ago I drove for some errands, and partway through, I started feeling worse. I thought it wasn't PEM, since I thought I had taken cumin only two days before. I wondered for the rest of the drive about whatever else could have caused the symptoms. When I got home, my journal showed that my memory was false, and that the cumin would have worn off the previous day. So, it was PEM (from chipping ice about 24 hrs previous). This does show that cumin's effects and PEM aren't just believing that I would or wouldn't feel symptoms.

 

[drob31]

I don't even have theory for what cumin is doing biochemically, so it's kind of hard to figure out why it doesn't last longer for you. How soon does it start having a positive effect? Is it reducing the severity of your ME/CFS symptoms or the PEM symptoms or both?

It seems to be blocking IL-6 cytokines and reducing neuroinflammation, if I had to guess.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27719643


https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/interleukin-6/


http://ard.bmj.com/content/71/Suppl_1/A90.2

 

[Wishful]

You're confusing curcumin and cumin. Curcumin makes my symptoms much worse.

 

[Strawberry]

I don't even have theory for what cumin is doing biochemically, so it's kind of hard to figure out why it doesn't last longer for you.

No worries from me! I understand how that goes. Who cares how it works (unless you are a scientist) just that it works.

How soon does it start having a positive effect? Is it reducing the severity of your ME/CFS symptoms or the PEM symptoms or both?

My sore throat is almost gone in less than 30 minutes, so just reduction of PEM symptoms. I definitely won't be chopping wood or shoveling snow any time soon. (wishful thinking that I could... )

Today I waited until about 4 pm to take it, and accidentally got a little more than a teaspoon. Its good though, I have two boxes I have to get out to my car and then into the house. If I was sick they would wait until the weekend. So hoping it lasts until bedtime!

 

[Mel9]

You're confusing curcumin and cumin. Curcumin makes my symptoms much worse.

Yes, and 'black cumin' is another quite different spice.

 

[Wishful]

I just finished about 40 minutes of shovelling snow (10cm, and long pathways). I probably wouldn't have had PEM from that even without cumin, because that was using muscles in ways that they are adapted to. If I had to work with my arms in a different position, such as over my head, even a few minutes would trigger PEM. I took two heaping tsps of cumin this morning. I want to see if it reduces my baseline ME symptoms, which a level tsp doesn't. Experimentation continues...

 

[Strawberry]

Today I waited until about 4 pm to take it, and accidentally got a little more than a teaspoon. Its good though, I have two boxes I have to get out to my car and then into the house. If I was sick they would wait until the weekend. So hoping it lasts until bedtime!

Just wanted to update so you can see what cumin does/doesn't do for me. My sore throat was minimal after taking the cumin, but after 5 minutes of being in my car my feet went numb. So while it minimized the PEM sore throat, I was still overdoing it with driving to get neuropathy. I actually SANG to part of a song in my car! I didn't have enough energy to properly hit notes, or sing more than a few seconds here and there, but a recognizable tune did come out of my lungs. I was able to get my two boxes inside the house on my own (my co worker put them into my car for me). Then I noticed my neighbor in my backyard (he takes care of my yard for me) so I went outside and talked with him (sitting) planning out what he needs to do. Then I talked to my best friend for a while on the phone while I was swallowing my piles of pills before I went to bed. Normally I want to just crawl in bed immediately when I get home, and I am usually sick and walk like I'm drunk from numb feet. So it does help, just not much.

Maybe I don't take enough.

Maybe I should try tea....

 

[Wishful]

Is your PEM dramatically different from your baseline ME/CFS symptoms? Can you reliably tell when you're feeling PEM rather than the normal symptoms? My PEM is usually a definite "I'm starting to feel much worse" effect.

 

[Strawberry]

Is your PEM dramatically different from your baseline ME/CFS symptoms? Can you reliably tell when you're feeling PEM rather than the normal symptoms? My PEM is usually a definite "I'm starting to feel much worse" effect.

No, I'm pretty much constant PEM right now. I had to take my cat to the vet over a month ago, and I've been very sick since. A few months ago I could occasionally have one day every month or so that I could maybe go to town for an item (like cat food) but not now. Doing nothing doesn't improve me currently.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

I don't even have theory for what cumin is doing biochemically...

I wanted to see what Professor Google had to say. If you google "cumin health benefits" you'll find a lot of links for the right kind of cumin, Cuminum cyminum.

Anti-Inflammatory Effects of Cumin Essential Oil by Blocking JNK, ERK, and NF-κB Signaling Pathways in LPS-Stimulated RAW 264.7 Cells.
Full text:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4575746/

Cumin seeds (Cuminum cyminum L.) have been commonly used in food flavoring and perfumery. In this study, cumin essential oil (CuEO) extracted from seeds was employed to investigate the anti-inflammatory effects in lipopolysaccharide- (LPS-) stimulated RAW 264.7 cells and the underlying mechanisms.

A total of 26 volatile constituents were identified in CuEO by GC-MS, and the most abundant constituent was cuminaldehyde (48.773%). Mitochondrial-respiration-dependent 3-(4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl)-2,5-diphenyltetrazolium (MTT) reduction assay demonstrated that CuEO did not exhibit any cytotoxic effect at the employed concentrations (0.0005-0.01%).

Real-time PCR tests showed that CuEO significantly inhibited the mRNA expressions of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS), cyclooxygenase (COX-2), interleukin- (IL-) 1, and IL-6. Moreover, western blotting analysis revealed that CuEO blocked LPS-induced transcriptional activation of nuclear factor-kappa B (NF-κB) and inhibited the phosphorylation of extracellular signal regulated kinase (ERK) and c-Jun N-terminal kinase (JNK).

These results suggested that CuEO exerted anti-inflammatory effects in LPS-stimulated RAW 264.7 cells via inhibition of NF-κB and mitogen-activated protein kinases ERK and JNK signaling; the chemical could be used as a source of anti-inflammatory agents as well as dietary complement for health promotion.

https://www.drugs.com/npp/cumin.html

Stimulation of bile acid secretion and pancreatic enzymes has been demonstrated in rats given a continuous intake of dietary cumin. Variable results were obtained with a single dose of cumin. 9 , 10 , 29

Cumin extract inhibited arachidonate-induced platelet aggregation in human platelets in a dose-dependent manner.11
Cumin oil and cuminaldehyde exhibited strong larvicidal and antibacterial activity. At in vitro concentrations of 300 or 600 ppm, cumin oil inhibited the growth of Lactobacillus plantarum . 30 Cumin essential oil demonstrated activity comparable with standard antibiotics against common human pathogens in in vitro experiments 31 and against gram-negative and gram-positive plant pathogens. 32 , 33

C. cyminum essential oil may also be beneficial for the inhibition of supragingival dental plaque via antimicrobial effects and biofilm-formation prevention. Its bactericidal properties are believed to be caused by the monoterpene constituents pinene and cineole. 34 An aqueous extract of cumin inhibited rat jejunal ATPase in an in vitro experiment. 35

Dosage
There are no clinical studies of cumin that provide a basis for dosage recommendations.

Interactions
In rat plasma, an aqueous extract from cumin seeds enhanced rifampin levels. Specifically, the maximum plasma concentration of rifampin was increased by 35% and the area under the curve by 53%, probably caused by the flavonoid glycoside, 3′,5-dihydroxyflavone 7-O-beta-D-galacturonide 4′-O-beta-D-glucopyranoside. This pharmacokinetic interaction could be beneficial for patients receiving rifampin for the treatment of tuberculosis. 36

Adverse Reactions
Cumin oil components are absorbed rapidly through shaved intact abdominal mouse skin. Undiluted cumin oil has phototoxic effects that are not related to cuminaldehyde, but to another photosensitizing component. 5 Because cumin has demonstrated blood glucose-lowering properties in rats, it could theoretically cause hypoglycemia. Patients with diabetes who are receiving an oral hypoglycemic agent and insulin should use caution when coadministering cumin. 16 , 17 , 18 , 20 , 21

Cumin water, made by boiling cumin seeds in water then allowing to cool, seems to be a popular drink, but it seems that you would lose the benefit of the essential oils and compounds that would evaporate. Anyway, have a look:
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-benefits-of-soaking-cumin-seeds-overnight-in-water

https://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/seed-and-nut/health-benefits-of-cumin.html