I know that cumin does work for me, and I had the active compound pretty much narrowed down to cuminaldehyde. Which specific biochemical pathway it's affecting is still a mystery. I haven't found anything else with similar effects, so I can't compare their pathways. I've tried some things that affect some of the pathways reported for cumin, with no efffect, but that might be due to them not passing the BBB.
Cumin (Cuminum cyminum): Possible PEM Blocker
- Thread starter Wishful
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Just an update: cumin is still working effectively for me. I've been cleaning up a decade or more of 'stuff', which involves driving an hour to my old place, loading stuff (some quite heavy) into my truck or piling it into discard piles, then driving back. The next day I unload and pile stuff into new piles. With cumin, there's no PEM from this. I ev even did some soft-tissue damage in one leg, which caused severe pain and I assume inflammation for a couple of days, but that didn't worsen my ME symptoms, which I'm pretty sure that would have without cumin.
Oddly enough, I also haven't been feeling the PEM (or PEM-like symptoms) from the driving or socializing, or at least not at the level I was used to. Maybe the strenuous physical activity is reducing that. Quite unexpected. I was worried that I'd do one load, then 'crash' for a few days.
I still feel the mental lethargy of ME, but with the blocking of PEM, I'm pretty much free of physical effects of ME. Yay cumin!
If cumin doesn't work this way for you, at least take comfort from the fact that it is possible to discover something that might work for you. Hopefully your 'magic treatment' won't be something incredibly rare or require precise dosage and/or multiple components (half a petal from a rare alpine flower and three hairs from a pregnant elephant shrew).
Oddly enough, I also haven't been feeling the PEM (or PEM-like symptoms) from the driving or socializing, or at least not at the level I was used to. Maybe the strenuous physical activity is reducing that. Quite unexpected. I was worried that I'd do one load, then 'crash' for a few days.
I still feel the mental lethargy of ME, but with the blocking of PEM, I'm pretty much free of physical effects of ME. Yay cumin!
If cumin doesn't work this way for you, at least take comfort from the fact that it is possible to discover something that might work for you. Hopefully your 'magic treatment' won't be something incredibly rare or require precise dosage and/or multiple components (half a petal from a rare alpine flower and three hairs from a pregnant elephant shrew).
Pink
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Love that magic treatment comment, too funny!
How did you narrow down what works for you?
How did you narrow down what works for you?
Discovering cumin's effect as a PEM blocker was pure chance. I did something physically strenuous, and was shocked to find that the expected severe PEM didn't occur. My journal said that I'd had cumin the previous day. Then it was just a matter of testing further to verify it. If I'd had the cumin four days previous, I'd have missed the effect.
I first noticed cumin blocking the flare up of symptoms 20 minutes after a meal. That was in 2004 I think. I had curry the night before, and noticed that the expected flare up after breakfast didn't occur. I tested curry again and found that it worked. I then tested the ingredients separately, and identified cumin as the active ingredient. I then found a list of active compounds in cumin and tested other herbs to narrow down what worked or didn't. Cuminaldehyde seemed to be the active compound. Unfortunately, cumin stopped working after taking it daily for a week or two. I tested it every now and then just in case it started working again. I just hadn't tested it in a way that I noticed a PEM-blocking effect.
As you can see, finding the magic treatment for yourself isn't easy. It is possible though. You just need to keep a close eye out for any unexpected improvement, and then experiment to find out what specifically does the trick for you. It's definitely worth the effort.
I first noticed cumin blocking the flare up of symptoms 20 minutes after a meal. That was in 2004 I think. I had curry the night before, and noticed that the expected flare up after breakfast didn't occur. I tested curry again and found that it worked. I then tested the ingredients separately, and identified cumin as the active ingredient. I then found a list of active compounds in cumin and tested other herbs to narrow down what worked or didn't. Cuminaldehyde seemed to be the active compound. Unfortunately, cumin stopped working after taking it daily for a week or two. I tested it every now and then just in case it started working again. I just hadn't tested it in a way that I noticed a PEM-blocking effect.
As you can see, finding the magic treatment for yourself isn't easy. It is possible though. You just need to keep a close eye out for any unexpected improvement, and then experiment to find out what specifically does the trick for you. It's definitely worth the effort.
I discovered that cumin does have limits. A couple of days ago I did some particularly strenuous activity (moving heavy stuff) which gave me more painfully aching muscles than I've had in many years. The morning after, I felt no PEM, but then around the 24 hr mark after the activity, I felt PEM surge up. Maybe if I'd taken more cumin, it would have blocked it. Next time I do something equally strenuous, I'll take some extra cumin and see if it blocks it completely or not. Since my muscles are still very sore, yet I only felt PEM for one day, I think it might still be blocking the residual effects of sore muscles.
crypt0cu1t
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Forgive me for asking such a dumb question, but is cumin the same thing as curcumin? If so, how do you take it and how much do you take? I noticed that turmeric seems to slightly help me.
That's not a dumb question @crypt0cu1t I was wondering the same too.
So far I haven't tried either.
It doesn't help I guess that I could never stand the taste of cumin. I could just about handle tiny bits in a curry with other things in there and the garlic masking the taste. Same with turmeric....
But if I could find out the dose maybe I could try pills?
I have heard turmeric causes constipation....no idea I guess until I try it for myself. Are there any side effects with cumin?
So far I haven't tried either.
It doesn't help I guess that I could never stand the taste of cumin. I could just about handle tiny bits in a curry with other things in there and the garlic masking the taste. Same with turmeric....
But if I could find out the dose maybe I could try pills?
I have heard turmeric causes constipation....no idea I guess until I try it for myself. Are there any side effects with cumin?
No, cumin (Cuminum cyminum) is not related to curcumin. It's also not black cumin, which is an unrelated plant marketed as a health product. The active compound seems to be cuminaldehyde, which is also found in perilla. I haven't found a convenient source of perilla, so I haven't tested it yet, but I think it would work.
I take a level tsp of ground cumin. Much less than that isn't fully effective. More than that isn't more effective, though it last slightly longer (I gave an example earlier in the thread). I hold it under my tongue for a while, in hopes that improved transport into the brain makes a difference, but it probably doesn't. I've mixed it into pancakes as well, and it doesn't seem affected by the heat. I haven't noticed any side effects. I don't actually like the taste myself, but it's not so awful that I'd bother putting it in capsules or masking the taste. Maybe swallow a half tsp quickly and rinse with something tasty?
For me, the level tsp is effective, and lasts three days. Given how everyone seems to react differently to things, you'll need to experiment for what works for you, assuming that it has any effect at all. Since cumin is cheap, easy to find, and safe, I was expecting everyone in the forum to try it, and I was really expecting some people to find that it works for them. It's made a huge improvement in my quality of life.
If you do try it, please post results, even if it's 'no effect'. Even negative results are useful information.
I take a level tsp of ground cumin. Much less than that isn't fully effective. More than that isn't more effective, though it last slightly longer (I gave an example earlier in the thread). I hold it under my tongue for a while, in hopes that improved transport into the brain makes a difference, but it probably doesn't. I've mixed it into pancakes as well, and it doesn't seem affected by the heat. I haven't noticed any side effects. I don't actually like the taste myself, but it's not so awful that I'd bother putting it in capsules or masking the taste. Maybe swallow a half tsp quickly and rinse with something tasty?
For me, the level tsp is effective, and lasts three days. Given how everyone seems to react differently to things, you'll need to experiment for what works for you, assuming that it has any effect at all. Since cumin is cheap, easy to find, and safe, I was expecting everyone in the forum to try it, and I was really expecting some people to find that it works for them. It's made a huge improvement in my quality of life.
If you do try it, please post results, even if it's 'no effect'. Even negative results are useful information.
crypt0cu1t
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Can you link me the brand that you try so I can see if its effective?
The cumin I'm using now is just no-name ground cumin. I've also used cumin seed bought from bulk food sections from different stores, so I don't think there's any difference in brands. I did find that it does weaken with age: the new ground cumin was more effective than freshly-ground 5+ year old cumin seeds. I think that whatever brand or source is most convenient for you will be fine for experimenting. I haven't tried more expensive brands, because I expect it's the same cumin in a more expensive container.
For me, cumin will start reducing existing PEM after a couple of hours.
For me, cumin will start reducing existing PEM after a couple of hours.
Haha....my idea (very BAD Wolfcub!) is swig it down with a double brandy.....that may not be for everyone
And may also negate the good qualities.But yes I would be willing to give that a try. Seriously, I could probably handle it with some vegetables....lentils, and salty stock. That isn't much to do each day. You never know....I might develop a taste for it!
(Anything that will help me get my firewood in for the winter without "funny turns"....would be welcome.)
Well, I can honestly say that cumin works great for me for firewood preparation. That's what let me discover its effects. I bucked up several trees and hauled and stacked for hours: no PEM!
The taste doesn't seem to linger in the mouth the way some things do, so one quick swallow and then something to wash it away.
Definitely hold off the brandy until after the chainsawing or splitting is done.
The taste doesn't seem to linger in the mouth the way some things do, so one quick swallow and then something to wash it away.
Definitely hold off the brandy until after the chainsawing or splitting is done.
Mel9
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Hi @Wishful,
have been using cumin tea daily and it seems to help but I notice you’re taking ground powder so I will start doing that tomorrow and let you know how I go.
have been using cumin tea daily and it seems to help but I notice you’re taking ground powder so I will start doing that tomorrow and let you know how I go.
Taking something daily makes it hard to know how well, or even if, it's working. It's easier if you try going without it for a day or longer, then trying again. Even better is to forget to take it, so you aren't expecting to feel worse. Then if you feel lousy, you can check your journal, which doesn't show you taking it, and go: 'Oh, that's why I feel so lousy today. I guess it really does work!' This morning I felt unexpectedly tired, and checking my calendar showed that it was my T2 boost effect wearing off 21 days after the last dose.
PEM might provide similar symptoms to baseline ME symptoms, but the two are different. I've just discovered that while cumin might block my PEM, doing something strenuous as my T2 effect wears off makes me feel really, really lousy. I haven't felt this lousy in years. It's not PEM, since that wouldn't have shown up until later today; this started while I was working. Well, I suppose it could be socializing-induced PEM, since I talked to people while shopping before that, but this is way more extreme than usual for that.
This just goes to show that this is a complicated disease, with lots of factors that can trigger or worsen symptoms, and probably involving different pathways to the same symptoms.
This just goes to show that this is a complicated disease, with lots of factors that can trigger or worsen symptoms, and probably involving different pathways to the same symptoms.
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Cumin is used in naturopathy alongwith saunf as anta
Cumin is a warm herb and 'heaty' so saunf is used to balance it as it is cool. Cumin is usually used in Ayurveda, Naturopathy, home cure for digestive issues and treating food borne infections alongwith other antibacterials/antivirals. I guess as we know from prior research exercise triggers bacteria in blood which takes time to clear in MECFS patients and so may be cumin could be involved in clearing up bacteria driving inflammation reducing recovery from PEM. More studies needed to understand whether bacteria post exercise in blood of PEM are different. May be studies focusing on Cortisol mitochondria microbiome 'dynamic' link could help.
Mitochondria influences gut microbiome. Please see the link given below. The problem is pharma companies would just focus on what drives B from A and stop there for long term drug subscription based profits and will not look further. We don't know there is proper two way interaction like brain gut. May be many well respected Senior experts like you, @Mary @Hip, @Wishful @Sushi and many others in this forum know better. It is messy and hell to live with this condition as one has to experiment so many stuff to find best combination. But with everything start slow & little and one at a time to know what is helping. Even excess food is harmful and just not meds so balance is key.
https://stke.sciencemag.org/content/12/588/eaaw3159
@Wishful Do you had digestive issue that used to worsen post exertion prior to taking cumin? Have you noticed that ever?
Regards,
Np
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Please ignore.
Rufous McKinney
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ummm.....this thread is confusing because the term "cumin" is general. Please use latin names. Then its very clear what plant (and include the plant part) was being consumed. The Spice Cumin is NOT the black seed, as you have correctly noted.
these various plants are all in different families, so they are very different.
This paper, suggests some similarities in the herbs used in curry....(not a spice)....that have antiinflammatory properties....
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2503839
I unfortunately experienced: grossing out on the smell of the herb cumin. I cannot tolerate smelling it I also ate it too often in certain frozen entrees which will remain nameless: after a number of years, cannot eat them again. Hence cannot tolerate it drenching my food, either. The smell parked in my nose and didn't leave for days. Another ME symptom......So now its so hard to find Humus, as its commonly contaminated with the herb cumin.
Rufous McKinney
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I meant Hummus.
But I should got out and find some humus. Then get my hands dirty. Then maybe pick up some better gut bacteria!