Poll on magnesium

How does magnesium affect you?


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@zzz
Magnesium's function as a CNS depressant is widely known and can be easily verified. If you simply type "magnesium CNS" into Google, Google's first suggestion is "magnesium cns depressant." If you select this suggestion, you will get pages and pages of results, some more relevant than others.
There are many, many other such high quality references just among the first few pages of results.
And they almost all specify MAGNESIUM SULFATE, which, as I pointed out in my response to your second post, is potentially dangerous when taken internally and then, only very occasionally and in the smallest possible amounts. They should be administered internally, whether by IV or any other method, solely by professional, trained and educated medical personnel.

Some of them rather evasively state that “ ……magnesium is SAID to have a depressant effect on the central nervous system ….”, a clear, almost caviling, caveat.
Searching for "magnesium cns depressant NMDA" provides a number of relevant examples of how magnesium interacts with the NMDA receptor. For example, the journal article Magnesium as a Neuroprotective Agent states that magnesium "has a depressant effect at the postsynaptic membrane through the voltage-dependent block of N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors." Although the CNS is not mentioned explicitly here, NMDA receptors occur throughout the CNS in huge quantities, so when they do, the depressant effect mentioned at the NMDA receptors is a CNS depressant effect.
NMDA receptors are neurotransmitter receptors that are located in the post-synaptic membrane of neurons, existing both in the CNS and the brain, and apparently also in the kidneys, liver, spleen, lungs, reproductive system, ad infinitum. They are proteins embedded in the membrane of nerve cells that receive signals across the synapse from a previous nerve cell. While NMDA receptors reside within the CNS, they are not exactly the CNS as much as located within the CNS, any more than the car that is located inside your garage is your garage.
The previous quote from Magnesium—Essentials for Anesthesiologists applies to this question of yours as well, being even more specific. Once again, there are quite a few high quality search results connecting magnesium's CNS depressant effects with its actions at the NMDA receptor.
And once again, they almost ALL reference MAGNESIUM SULFATE, the only form of magnesium that should only be administered orally or intravenously by a professional medical tech, except in the smallest oral amounts, and hardly on a daily basis.

The article you hyperlinked, Magnesium --- Essentials for Anesthesiologists, addresses the difficulties presented pre- and post-operatively of both hyper- and hypo-magnesemia, amng other issues, so not sure how it applies to my question. Since you didn’t mention what that question was it’s a little hard to say.

The same article goes on to state: “At the beginning of last century, magnesium was proposed to induce anesthesia effectively. Although later studies could not support this hypothesis and seriously questioned sufficient blood–brain barrier penetration of intravenous magnesium (and thus a true central nervous system effect of the drug itself), magnesium has been suggested for reducing anesthetic requirements, attenuating cardiovascular effects from laryngoscopy and intubation, and exerting muscle- relaxing effects.” ….. and
“Although a number of studies suggest a clinically relevant effect of magnesium, its actual efficacy as an adjuvant to analgesics and anesthetics to induce and maintain general anesthesia remains unclear and requires evaluation in large clinical trials"
Certainly not. That's why I have provided the references you requested.
You offered references to a search page for mag sulfate, an article from the Karger Journal, which deals with embryonic and neo-natal brain development, or as it describes itself “ …. a multidisciplinary journal publishing papers covering all stages of invertebrate, vertebrate and human brain development….”, and to a lengthy directive and guidance for anesthesiologists, but no specific references that I could find to other, safer forms of magnesium meant to function as systemic magnesium, intended for oral use and to be taken on a daily basis as a nutritional support, and not as laxatives, intended for intermittent, occasional use.

While I found your link to the Karger publishing company’s article Magnesium As a Neuroprotective Agent, addressing Neonatal Encephalopathy in Term Infants, and Fetal Neuroprotection, pre-eclampsia, and mag sulfate interesting, it didn’t seem to be a citation specific to our discussions here.

There was also a brief entry on the use of mag sulfate as an emergency rescue therapy in adult neurological injuries, which includes warnings about the use of mag sulfate “…. due to possible adverse effects on neuronal cell architecture…”, and goes on to state that “ …. further preclinical evaluation is essential to ensure safety and efficacy of magnesium sulfate neuroprotection prior to further human clinical trials.”
This is indeed very possible. But as our underlying conditions are generally very hard to treat, warning people of magnesium side effects that may occur as a result of an interaction with these conditions seems reasonable to me. I have found that people tend to get rather upset (and understandably so) when they are blindsided by side effects that no one told them about, especially when such side effects are well known (e.g., described in the references I have cited).
Other than a reference to the rather impenetrable and very broad “channelopathies”, you offered no warnings attached to more specific underlying conditions, like, say, diabetes, or even the illness we’re all so preoccupied with here, ME, which isn’t necessarily a singular free-standing condition, but rather an agglomeration of multiple other conditions, all knitted together to produce the effects of ME. So I’m not sure how effective your warning was.
I beg to differ. The Wiktionary defines "drug" as:
A substance used to treat an illness, relieve a symptom, or modify a chemical process in the body for a specific purpose.
This is a somewhat specious argument, since I’m guessing pretty much everybody on these threads, myself included, knows that there’s a pronounced difference between what can be regarded as a drug, and what we regard as a supplement, whether herbal, vitamin, or mineral, or even a food.

Since serious interactions can exist between harmless substances like, say, grapefruit and certain classes of drugs, your logic would dictate that grapefruit is a drug. This is a logical syllogism.

The fact that they all are meant to treat some form of illness or dis-ease does not equate to their being a drug on the level of those I cited in my response, which, since I think they were left out of your response, I’ll repost here as examples of true anxiolytic drugs: Xanax, Ativan, Valium, Klonipin, Tranxene, just for starters.

Magnesium is anxiolytic in so far as its ability to possibly treat, and greatly reduce, the horrors of endless ongoing panic and anxiety attacks, which are a misery that’s almost impossible to describe to anyone who hasn’t endured them. Magnesium does so with minimal, if any, side effects, particularly if taken judiciously and with FULL information (like not taking Mag Sulfate orally or on a daily basis without medical supervision), unlike the prescription drug classes of anxiolytics, which can and actually have killed people. A lot of ‘em.
If you Google "magnesium drug," you will find many high quality references that refer to magnesium as a drug.
Yes, and they mostly seem to address magnesium as a supplement, not a drug, altho some of the listings are on specific drug sites like Drug Interactions, RXList, WebMD, and DrugRX, all of whose intentions are to indicate what cross-potentiations or vitiations exist between the mineral magnesium and the various prescription drugs that are taken by a large number of this nation’s, as well as other nations, patient population. These, again, do not equate magnesium to a drug, but rather warn readers against interactions, potentiations, etc., that exist between it, as a mineral, and what most of us more readily would define as drugs.

A small number of recent namings of Mg as a drug seems to stem from its multiple beneficial actions in the human brain and body, and the avid interest by various bodies, corporate and otherwise, to isolate it from its more humble mineral beginnings and elevate it to a position that would engage more research dollars and possibly take it from a readily available, inexpensive OTC supplement, to a prescription product which pharma companies could convert into huge amounts of money. Much as they did with tryptophan when its value in combating migraines was determined.
Strictly speaking, most sources consider magnesium to be "anxiolytic-like", although some do simply call it an anxiolytic. As for being carbon-based, magnesium doesn't fit into that category. But the NMDA and GABA systems are in many ways complementary, in that NMDA antagonists (such as magnesium) tend to have many similarities to GABA agonists, and vice versa. In the case of the benzodiazepines that you mentioned, although they are not GABA agonists, they are GABA receptor potentiators, which behave in a similar way.
“Anxiolytic-like” covers a lot of ground which would include various forms of tea, like chamomile, as well as wine, harder spirits, warm scented baths, many essential oils like frankincense and lavender, even foods like chocolate altho it contains caffeine, offset by theobromine, and certain kinds of lettuces And there are myriad other examples.

And yes, benzos ARE GABAa agonists. They amplify the GABAa receptor’s effects, the very definition of an agonist. It’s why they’re so hard to withdraw from, because in amplifying the GABAa receptors, they precipitate dangerous down-regulation of them. A short google search will support that.

But I’d prefer not to go off-topic and argue GABA potentiators, agonists, antagonists, and down-regulators, since this all started with your warnings about magnesium, which I was afraid would have a negative effect on members who might otherwise have tried it, and since, like you, I’m not in the best shape right now, I’m hesitant to pour too much more of my fleeting energy into this.

You have very strong opinions that you will not back down from as do I, so it’s a Mexican stand-off. But specious arguments and logical syllogisms can be seriously misleading.
My health is not all that great, and I don't want to stress it out too much by pushing myself too hard here. Also, I think at some point I have to take mercy on the poor readers (if there are any left after this post).
The readers of these threads are not children. In my experience, they're generally smart, well-informed, and extremely interested readers of the posts in the many threads on this site, and like me, and I suspect you, open to the exploration of any information that might help in their battle with this gaping, sharp-toothed maw of a horror of an illness in any way possible.


Further, they can skip reading these posts if they chose to. It’s really not up to us to decide for them.
When someone states something that surprises me, or that I don't believe, I'll first check out reliable resources on the Web before replying, as I am very aware that my medical knowledge is quite limited. If you have further questions about what I said, you might want to consider a similar course. Meanwhile, due to my low energy level and current health status, this is about as much as I can do on this topic. Feel free to reply (and I will read any replies), but I need to take a break from long posts for now.
“You might want to consider a similar course ….” feels a little snide, but I'm having a piss-poor day, so maybe that’s just me.

I’m well aware of the magic of the google machine, and I use it gratefully and judiciously, largely because along with solid fact-based information, there’s an awful lot of ridiculous tosh.

And yes, there are still a lot of unaddressed questions about what you posted, as I’m sure you feel about what I’ve posted, but as I’ve already stated, I have limited strength and energy, and, having done my best to set the record straight on magnesium and its actions and safety, have little interest in continuing with circular arguments regarding what you’ve said or what I’ve said.
I know we both want the best for everyone on this forum
Absolutely !!! And I particularly didn’t want readers of your original post to be warned off of or unnecessarily scared away from magnesium, as particularly a new member might have been, since, as I mentioned in my response to that post, it saved my @ss and probably my life. Your post made it seem both somewhat threatening and even possibly dangerous,

And that’s how this whole fandango started. Let’s end it here.

Feel better
!!! :):) :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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@pamojja
Thanks for asking. I feel guilty of having got rid of constant PEM 2 years ago, and therefore can't really contribute to its discussion that much anymore. Since mine could have been a different animal altogether.
I've never found any of your posts to be anything other than well-considered and highly informative, and I think that you still have a lot to contribute to these threads. There may be others who are dealing with similar circumstances without realizing what the root cause (sorry, unintentional pun, apologies) is who could profit from your input and experience.

Look forward to seeing you in these threads, yes? :woot::woot:
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :hug::hug:
 
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@Inara
I once tried Mg transdermally and had an instant bad reaction (weakness, tremor); by taking calcium orally it got better. Due to this reaction I do wonder if Mg is good or bad for me; I don't actually know.
Altho magnesium helps your body absorb and retain calcium, too much magnesium may prevent calcium from being adequately absorbed, and vice-versa. Taking large amounts of either calcium or magnesium could potentially create malabsorption and/or a magnesium or calcium deficiency, so approach this on a trialing basis, with the usual caveat heard so often in these threads, “Start low and go slow”.

If I’m remembering correctly, a 2:1 calcium-to-magnesium ratio is the way to go for optimum absorption. You might try balancing your transdermal mag with twice as much calcium and see if that helps :):):thumbsup:.