Poll on magnesium

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Hip, @pamojja

Looks like @Sarah94 may want to switch off the option of "Multiple votes are allowed". In this particular poll, you only need one vote.

I disagree.

You cannot logically satisfy more than one of those answer options simultaneously.

Not so. I found mag extremely helpful for 4 or 5 of my symptoms, but relatively neutral for all of the others. Without multiple choices, I wouldn't have been able to post a complete answer, thereby skewing the poll and misleading other posters/readers.

I think the orginal question is too wide, to allow for a truthful one vote only.

I agree w/ @pamojja .... magnesium is multi-faceted, as would be the list of the things it either helps or does nothing for, or, in some members, may actually serve to worsen some conditions. A one-choice answer gives very little latitude considering the broad range of the poll as posted.

 

[PatJ]

I'm baffled by why my votes didn;t show up in the tally. I've been having problems with this site since the 2nd update, and I'm really beginning to lose patience. On days when I'm not doing too well, I generally clock out pretty quickly if the site is misbehaving or forcing me to shut down and reopen more than once. I just can;t take the constant frustration.

What;s even more difficult is that some days the site behaves normally, so there's no way I can figure this out. easily

Please post specific details about the difficulties that you're having in the Technical Support forum. Maybe we can help you to resolve the problems and hopefully relieve the stress it's causing for you.

 

[zzz]

Magnesium is a central nervous system depressant, and its side effects are essentially all in this area. They include drowsiness, decreased cognition, muscle weakness, respiratory depression, and low blood pressure. However, it typically takes fairly large doses of magnesium to trigger these side effects, unless someone has a condition that amplifies magnesium's effects (e.g., a calcium channelopathy), or is taking other medications with a central nervous system depressive effect. These symptoms can typically be reduced or eliminated by lowering the dose of magnesium.

Additionally, one of the more common side effects of magnesium is diarrhea or loose stools, which may even occur from parenteral applications.

The body requires magnesium to be in balance with other electrolytes, most notably potassium. In practical terms, this means that taking additional magnesium without increasing potassium intake may lead to symptoms that appear to be from the magnesium but are actually from a lack of potassium; most of the negative symptoms that people experience from increasing their magnesium intake that are not listed in the previous paragraph fall into this category.

I've taken magnesium most of my adult life, because it's recommended everywhere. But I didn't feel any different until I bought magnesium oil, and most of my cramps went away during a month

This makes sense, as parenteral applications of magnesium are typically more effective than oral applications. Magnesium supplementation listed in order of effectiveness is oral, topical (including Epsom salts), nebulized, IM injection, and IV injection. However, in practice, IM injection tends to be more effective than IV injection, as it is easier to do on a regular basis. As would be expected, the more powerful forms of application on this list carry a greater risk of side effects, and also a greater requirement for concurrent potassium supplementation.

Among oral forms of magnesium, magnesium glycinate and magnesium citrate are among the most effective, and magnesium oxide is among the least effective.

I voted 'somewhat worsened' because I've found that magnesium supplements cause RLS. I've never been able to take it for long enough to understand whether or not it impacts on my ME more generally.

The RLS would not be caused by magnesium, which is a muscle relaxant. But RLS can be a result of hypokalemia, so adding potassium to your magnesium supplementation should get rid of this symptom.

I’ve taken magnesium multiple times in different forms and have had generally the same reaction. After a couple doses I start experiencing anxiety, facial flushing, tachycardia, diarrhea and insomnia. I do have sensitivities to many things but magnesium does something particularity horrible with me.

Aside from the diarrhea, none of these symptoms are from magnesium, and are probably a result of the hypokalemia created by magnesium supplementation. Supplementing potassium along with the magnesium should get rid of them.

As for diarrhea, it is minimized by using parenteral forms of magnesium. Orally, forms such as magnesium glycinate and magnesium citrate tend to minimize diarrhea, while magnesium oxide and magnesium sulfate tend to maximize it.

 

[Inara]

In my case for example with severe magnesium deficiency and very pain-full muscle-cramps any oral magnesium form alleviated it only somwhat (tried all of them for 8 years), almost monthly Mg-sulfate infusions after its sixth ceased them completely.

So oral intake didn't alleviate Mg deficiency, only Mg sulfate infusions? How often and in which interval did you take them? And how long do higher levels remain? I.e. do you have to repeat the infusions to prevent Mg deficiency returning?

I can't get to grips with my Mg deficiency by taking Mg orally.
Without Mg I get cramps. My ALP is low which might be due to low Mg with the consequence of intracellular vitamin B6 deficiency, which brings with it a multitude of problems.

I once tried Mg transdermally and had an instant bad reaction (weakness, tremor); by taking calcium orally it got better. Due to this reaction I do wonder if Mg is good or bad for me; I don't actually know.

 

[pamojja]

So oral intake didn't alleviate Mg deficiency, only Mg sulfate infusions? How often and in which interval did you take them? And how long do higher levels remain? I.e. do you have to repeat the infusions to prevent Mg deficiency returning?

My Mg-deficiency developed already some 10 years ago. Most the years tried to get a handle on it by increasing oral intake up to 2.4 g/d (~1.6 g/d in average for these 10 years). But alleviated very severy painfull musclecramps only somewhat.

Only end of 2017 found a GP giving me inexpensive infusions, got them in intervals a bid longer than every month. After the 6th infusion the cramps ceased. After the 10th I retested whole-blood magnesium (which before, even despite titrating oral magnesium up, only decreased further). Had risen 3 mg/l since starting the IVs, and thereby still 2 mg/l short of between normal of 34-36. Meanwhile had 5 further IVs and plan to retest soon, all the while condinuing my high oral Mg intake.

Read somewhere usually 8 IVs would correct a severe Mg deficiency.

 

[Likaloha]

I began taking magnesium (may tab sr) for my migraines.....luckily they have gone down from 3 to 5 horrible headaches a week with having to take imitrex shots that many times a week to luckily having 1 to 2 a month...It is incredible for me and am so very happy!!!

 

[Sarah94]

@Gingergrrl in what way did magnesium make you greatly worse?

 

[Zebra]

Hi @Sarah94,

I'm sorry you are having a hard time with magnesium.

I voted above, "slightly improved."

And what I mean by that, it I experienced some symptom relief by taking magnesium.

For the first 3 years or so of this illness I took both magnesium citrate and malic acid. A doctor recommended this combo for severe muscle aches and soreness, and it really worked for me.

Now I take a simple Cal/Mag/Zinc combo, divided through out the day.

If I miss a day of this supplement, my nervous system is on high alert and I have trouble falling asleep.

So, I have deduced that, for me, the Cal/Mag combo helps my body calm down and helps me fall asleep.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@zzz
You’ve come down pretty forcefully on magnesium, and while many of your points are well-taken, others are less than perfect.

I feel compelled to add my 2 cents on several issues you’ve raised your post, largely because magnesium saved my @ss at a time when I was pretty close to giving up in the most permanent way possible, and I wouldn’t like that to happen to someone else because they misunderstood your post, and were too alarmed to try the one thing that worked for me when nothing else did.

First, far from being a general CNS depressant, except at extremely high concentrations usually only provided by IV’s and and IM injections, mag is absolutely critical to the efficient and healthy functioning of both the nervous system and brain, and plays an important role in relaying signals between your body’s many systems and the brain. It’s critical to the smooth functioning of muscles and the building and repairing of bones and teeth. It’s involved in, and critical to, at least 300 enzyme functions, and over 600 other systemic and organ functions, including the heart.

It protects the brain and CNS by standing guard inside NMDA receptors, where it prevents a constant triggering of them by even weak signals, that could otherwise overstimulate nerve cells unnecessarily, producing eventually catastrophic cell death.

Magnesium helps transport calcium and potassium ions in and out of cells, and may also contribute to the absorption of these important minerals.

Dietary magnesium did not affect the amounts of potassium excreted, absorbed, or retained by the body in several studies, contrary to one of your points regarding its action.

When your magnesium levels are suboptimal, your nerves are unable to control various functions, like muscle movement, respiration, and mental processes. Twitching, irregular heartbeat, irritability, anxiety, and nervous fatigue are frequently symptoms of magnesium depletion.

Neurologically, magnesium plays an essential role in nerve transmission and neuromuscular conduction. Magnesium is equally important to the central nervous system (spinal cord), as well as to the brain itself.

“The central nervous system concentration of magnesium (Mg++) appears to have a critical level below which neurologic dysfunction occurs. Observations presented suggest that the interchange of the Mg++ ion between the cerebrospinal fluid, extracellular fluid, and bone is more rapid and dynamic than is usually believed” – PubMed, Central nervous system magnesium deficiency, Langley WF, Mann D.

Studies have found that feelings of fear and panic can be significantly reduced with greater magnesium intake, and the results aren't limited to generalized anxiety disorder.

As far as diarrhea effect, this is primarily true of only a few forms of magnesium, oxide and citrate particularly. Mag glycinate, of which I’ve taken daily doses in excess of 1800 -2000 mgs, does NOT produce that effect.

To any of you who got this far, thanks for reading this without nodding off, much appreciated .

 

[gbells]

This poll is vaguely worded. Affect you how? Improve your SEIDs? Improve other health conditions?

 

[zzz]

@YippeeKi YOW !!, it was not my intention at all to come down against the use of magnesium; I am in complete agreement with the vast majority of your points. Magnesium was a lifesaver for me too; the use of nebulized magnesium over a period of 2.5 years led to a profound improvement in my health. If you search the forum for posts containing "magnesium" with me as the author, you will find a lot of posts describing and supporting the use of magnesium.

The reason I included a number of warnings in my post is that due to various reasons, not all people react to magnesium in the same way. The vast majority of people tolerate it very well with no problems. But some people can have very bad reactions to magnesium, and I thought I should mention them, especially since in the past I have been criticized for not mentioning some of them by people who have experienced these reactions.

First, far from being a general CNS depressant, except at extremely high concentrations...

Magnesium is classified as a CNS depressant simply because of its mechanism of action. Whether it actually causes CNS depression to a significant degree depends of the dose, the form of application, and the individual involved.

It protects the brain and CNS by standing guard inside NMDA receptors, where it prevents a constant triggering of them by even weak signals, that could otherwise overstimulate nerve cells unnecessarily, producing eventually catastrophic cell death.

Agreed. Magnesium's interaction with NMDA receptors is its CNS depressant effect. Being a CNS depressant is not a bad thing as long as doses aren't excessive; the body needs CNS depressants, and especially magnesium, to balance out various natural CNS stimulants.

First, far from being a general CNS depressant, except at extremely high concentrations usually only provided by IV’s and and IM injections...

I have heard from people who have run into problems with respiratory depression from all forms of magnesium, even at normal doses. I'll admit that I had a hard time believing this at first, especially for the oral forms, but after hearing the same reactions from multiple people, I realized that there are some people, although relatively few, who have a very low tolerance for some or all types of magnesium. I thought it was important to mention this so that people could recognize the rare cases when they were having reactions to magnesium so that they could adjust their dose accordingly.

I completely agree with all your points of the benefits of magnesium.

Dietary magnesium did not affect the amounts of potassium excreted, absorbed, or retained by the body in several studies, contrary to one of your points regarding its action.

To be clear, I do not know of cases where dietary magnesium required potassium supplementation. I have seen such supplementation necessary only with the more concentrated, parenteral applications of magnesium.

Studies have found that feelings of fear and panic can be significantly reduced with greater magnesium intake, and the results aren't limited to generalized anxiety disorder.

Once again, I agree completely. In this case, as in the case of many other anxiolytic drugs, the reduction of symptoms is directly due to the CNS depressant effect of magnesium. Magnesium is excellent in this regard in that the benefits can be obtained with a relatively low level of CNS depression, which means that there are typically no side effects such as drowsiness, or that these side effects disappear after a few days of use.

As far as diarrhea effect, this is primarily true of only a few forms of magnesium, oxide and citrate particularly.

Magnesium sulfate, when taken orally, is a very powerful laxative; it's taken primarily for this effect, as the absorption potential of a particular form of magnesium is inversely related to how much diarrhea it causes.

After reading your post, I checked out magnesium citrate, and sure enough, it does commonly cause diarrhea. This is unusual in that magnesium citrate is one of the better absorbed oral forms of magnesium.

Mag glycinate, of which I’ve taken daily doses in excess of 1800 -2000 mgs, does NOT produce that effect.

For most people (including me), this is true. However, some people have trouble absorbing any form of oral magnesium, and for these people, even magnesium glycinate can cause diarrhea.

I personally take magnesium malate daily, and I find that it has no laxative effect for me.

I hope that this presents a more balanced picture of my view of magnesium.

To any of you who got this far, thanks for reading this without nodding off, much appreciated .

Ditto.

I once tried Mg transdermally and had an instant bad reaction (weakness, tremor); by taking calcium orally it got better. Due to this reaction I do wonder if Mg is good or bad for me; I don't actually know.

After potassium, calcium is the second-most important electrolyte to balance with magnesium supplementation. If taking calcium eliminates the side effects you experience from taking magnesium, then you are simply balancing your electrolytes, and you're fine. If you use transdermal magnesium along with enough calcium to prevent any side effects, there should be no problem with this form of magnesium supplementation for you.

The need for the addition of potassium or other electrolytes such as calcium varies both by the type of magnesium supplementation involved and the individual. Generally, such supplementation is completely unnecessary for oral forms of magnesium. For parenteral forms, the need for supplementation (generally just potassium) rises for higher doses and application types of magnesium. However, some people need no supplementation even with repeated IV or IM doses of magnesium.

 

[Likaloha]

I began taking magnesium (may tab sr) for my migraines.....luckily they have gone down from 3 to 5 horrible headaches a week with having to take imitrex shots that many times a week to luckily having 1 to 2 a month...It is incredible for me and am so very happy!!!

should have said Mag Tab S R .

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@zzz

Magnesium is classified as a CNS depressant simply because of its mechanism of action. Whether it actually causes CNS depression to a significant degree depends of the dose, the form of application, and the individual involved.

Could you cite your source for magnesium’s classification as a CNS depressant? It flies in the face of everything I know about mg, Please help me out.

Agreed. Magnesium's interaction with NMDA receptors is its CNS depressant effect. Being a CNS depressant is not a bad thing as long as doses aren't excessive; the body needs CNS depressants, and especially magnesium, to balance out various natural CNS stimulants.

Well, no. Not really. Magnesium’s action on NMDA receptors consists of magnesium ions blocking the ion channel pore of NMDA receptors. This prevents the NMDA receptors activation when glutamate and/or glycine (or D-serine) bind to it, which would allow positively charged ions to flow through the cell membrane, creating all sorts of deeply unpleasant mischief and mayhem.

Again, if you could cite your sources it would really help me out here.

I have heard from people who have run into problems with respiratory depression from all forms of magnesium, even at normal doses.

The “I heard from people that ….” thing is not a dependable information source. How did they know it was the magnesium causing the problems? How do you know what else they might have been taking that could have worked synergistically with the mag to create these problems, or could have actually created the problems independent of mag? What medical conditions did they have that would have contributed to this extreme an expression by an otherwise reasonably benign mineral/electrolyte.

How do you establish mag as a respiratory or CNS depressant based on what, in a court of law, would be dismissed as “hearsay”?

Again, please, please, please, cite your sources.

I'll admit that I had a hard time believing this at first, especially for the oral forms, but after hearing the same reactions from multiple people, I realized that there are some people, although relatively few, who have a very low tolerance for some or all types of magnesium. I thought it was important to mention this so that people could recognize the rare cases when they were having reactions to magnesium so that they could adjust their dose accordingly.

There are people in these threads who also react poorly to mag. That doesn’t establish that it’s a CNS depressant. It might establish that they have an intense sensitivity to mag. Or that this sniveling little sneaky, slithering toad of an illness has created this reaction in them, tho not in all of us. Or that they have another, underlying condition that potentiated the mag dose. Who knows.

And that's the point.

There are also quite a few people (I'm among them) who react unpleasantly to P-5-P, or Vit B-12, or B-Complex compounds, or CoQ10, or folate, or gingko, or turmeric, or bacopa monnieri, or calcium, etc etc etc.

I agree that it’s important to warn unwary members here of a possibly extreme negative reaction, but giving unsupported information in that pursuit doesn’t really help anyone.

Once again, I agree completely. In this case, as in the case of many other anxiolytic drugs, the reduction of symptoms is directly due to the CNS depressant effect of magnesium.

First off, mag is NOT in the same class as “ ….. many other anxiolytic drugs ….”. It’s not even in the same galaxy. For one thing, it’s not a drug. For another, it’s actions in the human system, nervous and otherwise, are so numerous and essential that even if it were, it would still be worth considering.

But again, and I can’t stress this enough, MAGNESIUM IS NOT AN ANXIOLYTIC DRUG, AND IS NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS “ ….OTHER ANXIOLYTIC DRUGS …”. It never has been, never will be. They’re beyond just apples and oranges, their only similarity is that they’re both carbon based. Some notable anxiolytics are Xanax, Ativan, Valium, Klonipin, Tranxene, none of which work thru the NMDA systems, but thru GABAa systems.

Magnesium is excellent in this regard in that the benefits can be obtained with a relatively low level of CNS depression, which means that there are typically no side effects such as drowsiness, or that these side effects disappear after a few days of use.

And again, magnesium’s action has absolutely next to nothing to do with CNS depression, at least as far as I know, except in very extreme cases, severe underlying health conditions, and after massive doses.

Magnesium sulfate, when taken orally, is a very powerful laxative; it's taken primarily for this effect, as the absorption potential of a particular form of magnesium is inversely related to how much diarrhea it causes.

Magnesium Sulfate products are clearly labeled as NOT being for oral ingestion. Magnesium Sulfate is not exactly a daily-dose, benign kind of supplement. It’s Epsom Salts, a potentially dangerous and particularly violent laxative when taken orally, with multiple other unpleasant side effects. That’s why all containers of Epsom Salts say “DO NOT TAKE INTERNALLY”.

Epsom Salts are not used primarily as a laxative, precisely because of the violent and unpleasant action, bowel-wise, and it’s many side-effects, which can, with enough contributory factors, cause respiratory depression, kidney damage, cardiac arrest, and death, depending on the dose, the susceptibility of the party involved, and the health of their kidneys. Other contributing factors would be Addison’s Disease, gastrointestinal issues, extreme hypothyroidism (generally untreated), severe myasthenia gravis, and a couple of others I can’t recall.

But the main take-away from this is: DON'T USE MAG SULFATE AS A LAXATIVE. NOT NOW, NOT EVER.

Epsom Salts are used primarily as a muscle-soother in a nice, relaxing, hot bath. Some people use it as a foot soak in order to absorb magnesium from it because they can’t tolerate oral magnesium, but need it to avoid the unpleasant effects of hypomagnesemia.

In order for other forms of magnesium to produce dramatic effects, the doses would have to be so high that the only way reasonable way to deliver them would be by IV or IM, or possibly, sloppy parenteral feeding. Or a combination of all of the above.

After reading your post, I checked out magnesium citrate, and sure enough, it does commonly cause diarrhea. This is unusual in that magnesium citrate is one of the better absorbed oral forms of magnesium.

I hate to keep ragging on like this, but Mag Citrate is not one of the better absorbed forms of magnesium, it’s one of the worst. In fact, that’s the reason that it’s such a strong laxative. Mag glycinate is one of the best absorbed, as well as being the least problematic and gentlest to both stomach, intestines, and other tender regions.

Magnesium citrate is such a strong laxative that it’s used pre-op to clear the patient’s intestines as thoroughly as possible before anesthesia is administered and the cutting and stitching begin. In fact, that’s pretty much it’s only use. Even at small doses, it can have truly debilitating effects on more than a few people.

I hope that this presents a more balanced picture of my view of magnesium.

I appreciate the time and effort you took to clarify your post here, and I hope that I’ve been able to expand effectively on my post as well.

And again, thank you to all of you hardy souls who’ve read this far. Deeply grateful !!!

 

[zzz]

Could you cite your source for magnesium’s classification as a CNS depressant? It flies in the face of everything I know about mg, Please help me out.

Magnesium's function as a CNS depressant is widely known and can be easily verified. If you simply type "magnesium CNS" into Google, Google's first suggestion is "magnesium cns depressant." If you select this suggestion, you will get pages and pages of results, some more relevant than others. In quite a few places, the action of magnesium as a CNS depressant is spelled out completely explicitly. For example, Daily Med, the official provider of FDA label information, says, "Magnesium is said to have a depressant effect on the central nervous system (CNS)..." From wellrx.com: "Because of the CNS-depressant effects of magnesium sulfate..." From the article Magnesium—Essentials for Anesthesiologists: "In the central nervous system, magnesium exerts depressant effects, acting as an antagonist at the N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) glutamate receptor..." The package insert (prescribing information) for Magnesium Sulfate Injection, USP 50% says, under Indications and Usage:

Magnesium Sulfate Injection, USP 50% may be of therapeutic value in the following conditions:

• as a CNS depressant, primarily in preeclampsia and eclampsia of pregnancy;

There are many, many other such high quality references just among the first few pages of results.

Magnesium’s action on NMDA receptors consists of magnesium ions blocking the ion channel pore of NMDA receptors.

More specifically, there is a magnesium binding site on the NMDA receptor. When magnesium binds to this site, the actions you describe then follow.

Searching for "magnesium cns depressant NMDA" provides a number of relevant examples of how magnesium interacts with the NMDA receptor. For example, the journal article Magnesium as a Neuroprotective Agent states that magnesium "has a depressant effect at the postsynaptic membrane through the voltage-dependent block of N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors." Although the CNS is not mentioned explicitly here, NMDA receptors occur throughout the CNS in huge quantities, so when they do, the depressant effect mentioned at the NMDA receptors is a CNS depressant effect.

The previous quote from Magnesium—Essentials for Anesthesiologists applies to this question of yours as well, being even more specific. Once again, there are quite a few high quality search results connecting magnesium's CNS depressant effects with its actions at the NMDA receptor.

The “I heard from people that ….” thing is not a dependable information source. How did they know it was the magnesium causing the problems?

In the case of respiratory depression from parenteral magnesium, the answer is simple: The respiratory depression occurs within minutes of the magnesium administration, and the people I communicated with had never experienced respiratory depression before or since. I personally know of a couple of cases that occurred as a result of Epsom salt foot baths(!), and one of these people ended up in the ER. The doctors there were unable to provide a diagnosis.

How do you know what else they might have been taking that could have worked synergistically with the mag to create these problems, or could have actually created the problems independent of mag?

As some of these cases were quite surprising to me, I enquired as to what other medications the person was taking, and none of them were capable of causing CNS or respiratory depression either on their own, or in combination with magnesium.

Or that this sniveling little sneaky, slithering toad of an illness has created this reaction in them, tho not in all of us.

I personally suspect that this is a factor when combined with magnesium, at least in some cases. It is for this very reason that I felt it advisable to warn of magnesium side effects that may be less common in healthy people, especially when some of these side effects, such as respiratory depression, can be quite dangerous.

I know of only one case where a person experienced respiratory depression from oral magnesium, but this happened multiple times to her, as she took oral magnesium multiple times because she really wanted it to work. As with the other people I talked to, she never experienced respiratory depression outside of these cases. She was extremely sensitive to almost all medications, though, and so I think hers is an outlying case, and I think that the risk of respiratory depression from oral magnesium is negligible, and should not deter people from using it. I mention this possible side effect so that if people experience it while taking oral magnesium, the question of magnesium's involvement could be raised.

There are people in these threads who also react poorly to mag. That doesn’t establish that it’s a CNS depressant.

Certainly not. That's why I have provided the references you requested.

Or that they have another, underlying condition that potentiated the mag dose.

This is indeed very possible. But as our underlying conditions are generally very hard to treat, warning people of magnesium side effects that may occur as a result of an interaction with these conditions seems reasonable to me. I have found that people tend to get rather upset (and understandably so) when they are blindsided by side effects that no one told them about, especially when such side effects are well known (e.g., described in the references I have cited).

Once again, I agree completely. In this case, as in the case of many other anxiolytic drugs, the reduction of symptoms is directly due to the CNS depressant effect of magnesium.

I am quoting myself here because my proofreading failed to catch the error in this sentence; the phrase "the CNS depressant effects of magnesium" at the end of it should be replaced with "their CNS depressant effects." This becomes important when addressing your reply:

First off, mag is NOT in the same class as “ ….. many other anxiolytic drugs ….”. It’s not even in the same galaxy. For one thing, it’s not a drug.

I beg to differ. The Wiktionary defines "drug" as:

1. A substance used to treat an illness, relieve a symptom, or modify a chemical process in the body for a specific purpose.

If you Google "magnesium drug," you will find many high quality references that refer to magnesium as a drug.

But again, and I can’t stress this enough, MAGNESIUM IS NOT AN ANXIOLYTIC DRUG, AND IS NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS “ ….OTHER ANXIOLYTIC DRUGS …”.It never has been, never will be. They’re beyond just apples and oranges, their only similarity is that they’re both carbon based. Some notable anxiolytics are Xanax, Ativan, Valium, Klonipin, Tranxene, none of which work thru the NMDA systems, but thru GABAa systems.

Strictly speaking, most sources consider magnesium to be "anxiolytic-like", although some do simply call it an anxiolytic. As for being carbon-based, magnesium doesn't fit into that category. But the NMDA and GABA systems are in many ways complementary, in that NMDA antagonists (such as magnesium) tend to have many similarities to GABA agonists, and vice versa. In the case of the benzodiazepines that you mentioned, although they are not GABA agonists, they are GABA receptor potentiators, which behave in a similar way.

These are the points you raised that I felt it was the most important to reply to. My health is not all that great, and I don't want to stress it out too much by pushing myself too hard here. Also, I think at some point I have to take mercy on the poor readers (if there are any left after this post).

I would like to close simply by emphasizing a general principle, which is that points I make as general medical knowledge can easily be found with a simple Google search or two. When someone states something that surprises me, or that I don't believe, I'll first check out reliable resources on the Web before replying, as I am very aware that my medical knowledge is quite limited. If you have further questions about what I said, you might want to consider a similar course. Meanwhile, due to my low energy level and current health status, this is about as much as I can do on this topic. Feel free to reply (and I will read any replies), but I need to take a break from long posts for now.

I know we both want the best for everyone on this forum, and I hope that at least a few people have found this discussion edifying.

 

[pamojja]

Magnesium Sulfate products are clearly labeled as NOT being for oral ingestion. Magnesium Sulfate is not exactly a daily-dose, benign kind of supplement.

Since my experience for years trying all kinds of magnesium (malate, glycinate, citrate, ascorbate, threonate, lysinate, etc.) showed: they all alleviated very painful muscle-cramps only somewhat, at the equal elemental magnesium content (in my case all equally absorbed badly) - I first switched to the cheapest kinds, like magnesium oxide, and then found a magnesium mineral water with a elemental magnesium content of 1040 mg from 3133 mg magnesium sulfate per liter: Rodgaska Donat Mg (with other goodies, like 3mg of lithium).

Though its advertised at only one glass against constipation, in my case being already used to above 2 g per day of oral elemental Mg from all other magnesium compounds, I can easily drink a whole liter each day without diarhea. Did that now for many years again, since it saves me some handful of capsules each day, and by drinking it throughout the whole day, adminshed more like a slow release form. Overall, its a natural mineral water. Expensive at that high intake though.

We're all different. Also a Mg-IVs contains 4930 mg magnesium sulfate.

 

[percyval577]

You cannot logically satisfy more than one of those answer options simultaneously.

In first order it may be time which allows for avoiding contradictions ! ! !

I had: slightly a good effect, no effect and slightly a bad effect. I think it like so:

The slightly good effect:
action on NMDR´s

The slightly bad effect:
b/c a lot of enzymes do function with Mg or Mn alternatively
Mg would have raised slightly exclusive-Mn-actions
which some of them I am obviously pretty sensitive to

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@pamojja

We're all different. Also a Mg-IVs contains 4930 mg magnesium sulfate.

And are administered, I hope, in a medical setting by medical professionals.

How are you doing? Haven't seen you around as much, hoping you're doing well, or as well as this miserable little pustule of an illness allows.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@zzz
Am way too fatigued, weak, and unfocused to reply right now, but will be back later with a fuller response regarding magnesium and it's actions.

 

[pamojja]

And are administered, I hope, in a medical setting by medical professionals.

How are you doing? Haven't seen you around as much, hoping you're doing well, or as well as this miserable little pustule of an illness allows.

Thanks for asking. I feel guilty of having got rid of constant PEM 2 years ago, and therefore can't really contribute to its discussion that much anymore. Since mine could have been a different animal altogether.

Was correlated to having pulled out my only root-canal treated tooth, and getting almost monthly inexpensive MG IVs from a GP since end of 2017, and too many other confounders to mention here. I did inform the GP of all precautions with Mg IVs, since they don't have any education on that at all. And honestly, because I suspected my severe Mg deficiency to sabotage any other healing effort already many years ago, without finding a willing MD, I'm cursing myself not having given myself those simple IVs already long ago.

 

[percyval577]

More specifically, there is a magnesium binding site on the NMDA receptor. When magnesium binds to this site, the actions you describe then follow.

Interesting. Without Mg then there wouldn´t be any NMDR action possible??


I needed to renew my knowledge:

In addtiton to Na(+) ions the NMDAR conduct also Ca(2+)ions through its channel. But extracellular Mg(2+) ions are soon going to block the channel when it has opened, so that first the extracellular Ca(2+) ions will rarely come into the cell.

Only when enough Na(+) ions have come into the cell through AMPAR´s and the cytosol has become more positive the Mg(2+) ions will be pushed out of the channel, so that now Ca(2+) ions will pass through the channel, also as the charge is not the only force that drive ions to move: here Ca2+ ions want to go from the extracellular space into the cell, where essentially no Ca2+ ions are.

NMDAR´s do not close as soon as AMPAR´s, so that they conduct their ions for longer time, though to lesser amount per time unit.


If it is true what you say, @zzz (you may provide a source),
too less Mg probabaly would lead to a more sporadic opening of NMDR´s which though would act sooner, it seems to me it would be more unbabalanced.
too much Mg probably would lead to more acting NMDR´s, but would also serve to block them better, and the NMDAR ions would start more in a sudden to come into the cell.