Poll #2: Compare second vaccine dose to first (and some extra)

[vision blue]

Just setting this up because of the poster who was hoping to get info on reactions to second dose compared to first. Others may have same question.
Please check off all that applies.

(Note I am hoping that "publicly visible" means only the aggregate is visible. If that is not true, i will edit the poll ASAP - I am waiting to hear back from moderator on that.)

 

[jen1177]

Vision blue, can you edit it to ask questions about if the reaction to the 2nd dose was LESS than the 1st dose? That is crucial to what I need to find out. Thank you for doing this!

 

[vision blue]

Ooops! Youre right- can't believe I left those off...I meant to, then just spaced out...Ok, I just added those possiblities, but it doesn't let me change the order to put them next to the other options - think it will be ok? (let me know if they look ok)

By the way, I think my symptoms will be just like yours- everything I ever had will get re-activated; at least int he short term, in the long term, i'll probably incubate Frankenstein. Those last symptoms you mentioned- the occiptial nueralgia and the other two- curious if you had them before or if was new surprise from vax

 

[vision blue]

To everyone else: If the results are displayed too publicly and you would otherwise like to vote if it were not, please let me know so I can fix. thanks

 

[jen1177]

Ooops! Youre right- can't believe I left those off...I meant to, then just spaced out...Ok, I just added those possiblities, but it doesn't let me change the order to put them next to the other options - think it will be ok? (let me know if they look ok)

By the way, I think my symptoms will be just like yours- everything I ever had will get re-activated; at least int he short term, in the long term, i'll probably incubate Frankenstein. Those last symptoms you mentioned- the occiptial nueralgia and the other two- curious if you had them before or if was new surprise from vax

I get the occipital neuralgia & joint pain with bouts of inflammation which I'm not sure what causes. I strongly suspect eating foods high in oxalates because the symptoms improve each time I switch to low oxalate foods. It's just really hard to stick to a low oxalate diet because it's so bland and boring and tasteless.
(I can't remember which symptoms I wrote in what order in the other post/thread.)

But that is what it felt like (how you described) that everything seemed to get re-activated. What is also weird is that I also remember during that first day or two after the shot when I had a fever, that my muscles felt stronger and had more energy. But that small improvement was eclipsed by pretty severe flu-like symptoms, pain and fever. I hadn't had a fever in years. I can't even remember the last time I had a fever. And the flu vaccines don't give me any problems at all aside from some slight soreness at the injections site. Somehow this mRNA process really activated my immune system and threw it for a loop.
I did read in the comments on Cort's poll that some people said they had drastic improvements in their regular symptoms following the vaccination, suggesting that for some of us our chronic problems are immune mediated.

 

[vision blue]

In terms of reports of drastic improvements in other symptoms with vaccine, that general thing (niot just to vaccines) has been reported both in this forum and on AI forums many many times over the years. Others have noticed that when immune system is givien someting "normal" to do, persons usual symptoms and states just vanish. I've had that happen many times. A few years ago, when i had a bad acute sinus infection with fever- i could finally get some sleep becasue my crazy over active sympathetic nervous system stopped being overactive.

I wouldn't assume that it was the mRNA aspect that caused your immune respnse to react strongly- could have beeno ther things too.

 

[jen1177]

[QUOTE="

I wouldn't assume that it was the mRNA aspect that caused your immune respnse to react strongly- could have beeno ther things too.[/QUOTE]

The reason I think it is due to the mRNA process is because I never had any kind of reaction to any other vaccine in my life. I get the flu shot every year and have zero systemic reaction. None of my previous vaccinations have used the mRNA method. And this method does create an extra step that the immune system has to deal with. The immune system must first create the spike protein and then mount an immune response to the protein. Whereas other vaccines simply expose the immune system directly to the spike protein eliminating that whole process of using mRNA to instruct the immune system to create the spike protein.
Another thing it could be is the substances that the mRNA must be suspended in. The various chemicals and lipids...who knows what my body is doing in response to those things being injected into my muscle.

I don't know man. So many unknowns.

 

[Gingergrrl]

I get the flu shot every year and have zero systemic reaction.

So you never had a bad reaction to the adjuvants in the regular flu vaccine (or in any other vaccines prior to COVID)?

 

[jen1177]

So you never had a bad reaction to the adjuvants in the regular flu vaccine (or in any other vaccines prior to COVID)?

No, nothing at all. I don't even think twice about getting the flu shot every year. I've been getting it for probably about 12 to 15 years and not a single problem. I've gotten other vaccines in the past ... the MMR when I was in either high school or college and didn't have any issues with that one, either.
The only time I had a suspected reaction to a vaccine was when I was a baby just over a year old. My parents brought me to the ER because I would not stop crying and wouldn't turn my head. They suspected meningitis and quarantined me in the hospital for 4 days. 2 spinal taps and multiple blood tests later and they still did not know what was wrong, and I did not have a fever. The doctors guessed that it was a delayed reaction to a vaccine I'd had a month prior and my parents do not remember which vax it was. But it's all just a guess. I think it was my first flare. I was never the same after that, though. My parents said I would scream every time I saw someone wearing a white coat. The trauma of being separated from my family, held in a strange place surrounded by people wearing masks and gloves, having my temp taken anally (like being raped), and being stabbed with needles for 4 days left me with PTSD that today still causes me to be afraid of doctors and medical personnel especially if I'm lying on a hospital bed or exam bed, and they refer to it as white coat syndrome now.
But that was my only possible bad reaction to a vaccine up until now, and there's no way to know if what I experienced was due to the vax or not.

 

[vision blue]

True early PTSD can affect the HPA access for life (alot of rat studies on this) and who knows what a spinal tap would do.

Guess you never had a shingles shot - alot of people have bad reactions to that even when not to a flu shot

on coronavax, one does wonder about the Lipid Nanopartilces (LNP). Any chance you could have had a mild case of coronavirus and not know it? That would also cause a big immune response to vaccination. Bottom line though is if it is all gone within a month, isn't that ok then? or is it not gone yet? or maybe you think the second bout would not go away?

Did you also get Covid ARm? that symptom bugs me because of the delayed hypersensitivy response - T cells responding to prolonged antigen stimulation- raising possiblity that in some peeople, the immue system cannot fully destroy and get rid of the the aberrant cells in the muscle, this means a constant antigen stimulation and T cells may get involved there

 

[Gingergrrl]

No, nothing at all. I don't even think twice about getting the flu shot every year. I've been getting it for probably about 12 to 15 years and not a single problem. I've gotten other vaccines in the past ...

That is interesting and I had doctors (prior and current) tell me not to get the flu vaccine b/c of the adjuvants (and I've never had one). My current doctor suspects that the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines would be better for someone like me (from the perspective of autoimmunity) b/c they do not contain adjuvants but he also said that there is no way to be certain until there is more longitudinal data.

Did you also get Covid ARm? that symptom bugs me because of the delayed hypersensitivy response - T cells responding to prolonged antigen stimulation- raising possiblity that in some peeople, the immue system cannot fully destroy and get rid of the the aberrant cells in the muscle, this means a constant antigen stimulation and T cells may get involved there

Thank you for your msg about this @vision blue and I am going to try to find your post about COVID arm so I can reply there. I am not sure how I missed it the first time!

 

[jen1177]

True early PTSD can affect the HPA access for life (alot of rat studies on this) and who knows what a spinal tap would do.

Guess you never had a shingles shot - alot of people have bad reactions to that even when not to a flu shot

on coronavax, one does wonder about the Lipid Nanopartilces (LNP). Any chance you could have had a mild case of coronavirus and not know it? That would also cause a big immune response to vaccination. Bottom line though is if it is all gone within a month, isn't that ok then? or is it not gone yet? or maybe you think the second bout would not go away?

Did you also get Covid ARm? that symptom bugs me because of the delayed hypersensitivy response - T cells responding to prolonged antigen stimulation- raising possiblity that in some peeople, the immue system cannot fully destroy and get rid of the the aberrant cells in the muscle, this means a constant antigen stimulation and T cells may get involved there

Oh, those poor rats.
I never did have a shingles vax because I've read you are supposed to be clear of shingles for at least 6 months before getting the shot, and I haven't had that happen. I keep getting mild shingles over and over. It's become a chronic recurring thing.
I suppose it's possible I had a mild case of covid but with all the precautions I take, I doubt it. Plus I got an antibody test done a week ago and it was negative.
I am worried that the second shot will cause an even bigger reaction that could leave me even worse off than I am now. Tomorrow will be a month since the 1st shot and I still feel like I'm not completely back to my normal level of functioning.
I did not get covid arm (knock on wood).

 

[vision blue]

YOu made me laugh about the rats! Don't we have enough to be concerned with?

I too get a recurrent herpetic rash so frequently its almost like its chronic and never completely goes away. at first thought was shingles, but now reached conclusion that it is more likely hsv1 (the one that causes cold sores). not the rash that bothers me (at this point, i often get no eruption, or erutption that fades after one day) but the nerve symptoms it causes and it also triggers dysatunomia for me.

i have not heard you need to be clear of shingles for 6 months. I don't think it is a requirement. I' sure somoene thought that was common sense that if one were less than 6 months out, one wouldn't need the shingles shot. but of course they don't consider zebras like us.

 

[jen1177]

I too get a recurrent herpetic rash so frequently its almost like its chronic and never completely goes away. at first thought was shingles, but now reached conclusion that it is more likely hsv1 (the one that causes cold sores). not the rash that bothers me (at this point, i often get no eruption, or erutption that fades after one day) but the nerve symptoms it causes and it also triggers dysatunomia for me.
.

Have you had a doctor diagnose the rash as either shingles or hsv1? I am just curious because I am not 100% sure that what I am getting is shingles or maybe something similar. I do get little blisters that burst and scab over. Mainly they itch for a while and ooze a little. Sometimes they just look like bug bites. But the itching remains long after the rash is gone. Certain places on my body where I once had the rash will start itching and I'll also get a set of symptoms that I get when I have these mild cases of shingles (probable shingles). I have mild nausea, sore throat, my left eye feels irritated, I do stupid things (absentmindedness), and I get a pinching pain in my lower right abdomen. And my right hand pinky finger area gets pins and needles because I once had the rash there. Pretty random symptoms but I get them each time. Occasionally I get pain which is internal and sometimes that gets to be severe. I ended up in the ER a few times not knowing what was going on. Sometimes the rash will sting and burn besides itching. I did get my first bad case diagnosed as shingles by my doctor. But I haven't gotten any further testing done. She attempted to do a viral culture by using a swab of the rash when one of the blisters was oozing, but the lab said they couldn't do it for some reason and threw the swab out.
But like you described, I also seem to just constantly have these shingles episodes or whatever they are, and it never seems to completely go away.

In case this helps you...I have an Rx for valtrex for the bad cases, but I take papain/papaya enzyme for the milder cases and it seems to help. I also figured out that eating things high in arginine will bring on a case of shingles. Nuts, seeds, gelatin, chocolate. I read that taking lysine will help counteract the arginine but I have not found that it helps at all.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Poll doesn't currently mention the astrazeneca Vaccine - for us brits who are stuck with it

 

[vision blue]

@godlovesatrier
good point on astrazenica....for now, how about using the choice saying had other vaccine? not very satisfying... I'll see if it lets me still edit to add that. Feel sick right now so may have to wait anyway

 

[perrier]

Hi Folks: any advice for us? my adult daughter who has sever ME tolerated the Pfizer first dose exceptionally well (better than I did). I spoke to a CFS doctor who said that was great because it meant there wasn't mast cell activation. OK. Now, 8 weeks after this first jab, she has had her 2nd shot yesterday. And now she is unrecognisable: acute extreme headache, extreme nausea to the point of wanting to give up whatever is inside the GI, severe extreme Flu feeling, toxic feeling, inability to sit or stand--basically she said she feels as if she "is dying." It is now 23 hours after this second shot. Any advice on what might ease her situation? Thanks in advance.

 

[nina22]

Thanks for this pole- I have heard so many different reactions I was wishing we could see actual numbers.

I get the flu shot every year and have never had a bad reaction. And with both COVID vaccines I only felt mildly sore for a day.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Yes I've always recovered from the flu jab. Then again maybe covid does something in the b cells to change the immune system. Even if you get the vaccine