Other ways of taking b complex and minerals

[dannybex]

Here's the main study where although it concludes the B6 is 'possibly' required for the metabolism of QA, note that QA excretion was elevated during B6 depletion and returned to 'pre-depletion' levels when 'saturated' w/B6.

 

[Lolinda]

Epsom Salts transdermally successfully.

For me both magnesium sulphate and glycinate cause a burning sensation in the ureters and calves (I think it is vascular/endothelial pain in the calves).

I will give transdermal epsom a new try soon, ordered a box today. I developed an exorbitant appetite for sulfur stuff this week: daikon ( white raddish ) and broccoli, ending up in eating more and more, e.g. ~350g today lol . I have such things from time to time. its an insatiable appetite for sulfur stuff, thats the common thing (daikon, broccoli, brussels sprout, mustard, horseraddish, seaweed, garlic, ...) and I feel good on it.

a good list of high sulfur foods:
http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

To be honest I have no idea if epsom salt will or will not work in the same direction. But I think my body wants to tell me sthg with this extreme appetite. At least, these foodstuffs do not have any side effects in me (except for smell.. I wished I knew what to do with that... )

Interestingly, it came in parallel to my new "miracle cure" the transdermal B6+B2, and it came somewhat after a serious deterioration in which I could eat less and less fat (I am on keto paleo) not being able any more to meet energic needs, and I had more and more speed / restless energy.

@alicec @Gondwanaland why do you (want to) take epsom salt? do you notice any changes in appetite to sulfur foods when you take more / need more epsom salt? I am curious

 

[Gondwanaland]

@alicec @Gondwanaland why do you (want to) take epsom salt? do you notice any changes in appetite to sulfur foods when you take more / need more epsom salt? I am curious

I tried Epsom Salt foot bath once because I was trying to find a type of magnesium I could tolerate - it turned out it wasn't MgSO4 but MgO. I was already hypoglycemic when I tried the foot bath and it sent me to the ER.

Sulfate helps with the excretion of oxalate.

 

[dannybex]

Sulfate helps with the excretion of oxalate.

And phenols / salicylates...

 

[Peyt]

@dannybex !! thanks 1000x for your post. I have been investigating this mystery since a while.
--> Could you give me a link to this study?

In particular, the connection to quinolinic acid is great. In fact, mine was high in 2013: 7.7 mmol/mol creatinine, normal: .52 - 2.4. Interestingly, my urinary excretion of B6 was normal in the same test panel.

While I knew its a neurotoxin, I never made the connection to my recent neuropathy. (loss of feeling in feet, tingling and burning in soles).
I will get my new results for the same panel from the same lab soon. Have you had your quinolinic acid tested?

Hi Llinda,
What is the name of the attached test that you have posted?
Is this test available in USA?
Thanks so much,
Peyt

 

[Lolinda]

What is the name of the attached test that you have posted?
Is this test available in USA?

only there. unfortunately for me... good for you, you will go cheaper without those fedex fees...

its the GPL OAT. details see in this longish test list:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ling-in-feet-pain-tingling.45736/#post-745258

 

[Peyt]

only there. unfortunately for me... good for you, you will go cheaper without those fedex fees...

its the GPL OAT. details see in this longish test list:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ling-in-feet-pain-tingling.45736/#post-745258

So how can I find a Doctor that can read and interpret the GPL OAT test in California?

 

[Lolinda]

just ask the GPL! btw the test comes with written interpretations + you get a 30 min consult from them.I am from Europe so I cant help you with a good doctor in Calif. or any doctor at all...

 

[NicolasF]

RESORPTION OF TRANSDERMAL VITAMINS AND AMINO ACIDS

I experimented quite a bit during the last weeks, asked several people for advice, read stuff. For anyone interested, I summarize here my findings.

Speed of resorption

all the following are experiences from an as simple as possible transdermal application of vitamins and amino acids: put them into a tiny amount of water in a mini-cup, mix with a finger and smear on a limb. cover limb afterwards as vitamins arent supposed to sunbath Hint from @aaron_c : if using B2, make sure its not an issue if the cloth gets orange.

after repeatedly taking transdermally single amino acids and single vitamins, I found from the reactions that B6 and B3 has a clearly noticeable effect in me within 1-2 hours, glycine seems to have no fast effect but a clearly noticeable slow effect in several hours which finishes at roughly maybe 8h or so.
adding to this, I had small but noticeable side effects from B6 and B3, which stopped increasing after the same 1-2h after application.

=> in total my conclusion is that diluted in plain water and smeared on the skin, B3 and B6 resorb fast, in 1-2h. glycine resorbs in a "timed release" fashion within some 8h.
=> this corresponds well to the fact that these vitamins are water soluble and glycine is in tiny morsels when I smear it on the skin.
=> my next plan is to try the b vits in small divided doses through the day, to avoid even the smallest side effects.

if anyone wonders why I take individual b vitamins (where it is known that these act in concert):
1. this way I can make such observation as above - I can attribute effects to causes. Meanwhile I started using combinations of vitamins. in the effects I notice the contributions of the individual vitamins.
2. in me everything is super risky, so before I take a combo, I better test them one by one to know if sthg totally crazy happens. Fortunately nothing happened apart from barely noticeable side effects.

Rate of resorption

Seems to be in the same ballpark as when taken orally. Probably even better. I found it surprising that the skin resorbs so well. As @alicec pointed out in a post below, the skin has a lipid membrane that is difficult to pass for water soluble stuff. (my skin never greasy, maybe that helps? as it is hot summer here, I swet, so I could imagine that the swet glands could provide a water-solute entry. bare speculation!) At the other hand, transdermal stuff gets into the peripheral blood directly without passing through the liver first, which usually filters out most of what we put in. Maybe the two hindrances (lipid layer vs liver filter) hold balance, depending on a variety of individual factors? In all cases, its extremely difficult to find skin resorption rates anywhere, and if there is a statement its very wide from-to estimate. So it is probably totally individual. Having said that, in a post above this one, @aaron_c reported esperiences that fit mine: comparing transdermal to oral intake, largely simillar quantities lead to largely simillar effects.

I have best comparison values for B6 as I have taken it orally, then transdermally, then transdermally with a cofactor (B2). I was watching in all cases the same beneficial effect: improvement in gastric motility (ok, this is very special, others will have different effects. B6 improves serotonine, serotonine improves gastric motility.):

I had largely the same effects from:
- 10 mg B6 orally
- 4 mg B6 transdermally
- 2/3 mg B6 + 1/3 mg B2 transdermally (thanks to @Gondwanaland for the hint to use these two in combo

I am not sure if the oral and the transdermal experiment are really different, because I did not try 10mg B6 transdermally and 4mg B6 orally.

All the transdermal applications were plain simple dilutions in tiny amounts of water. The effect does not seem to depend on how much water one uses. when trying the B6 B2 combo transdermally, it was really just drops into a minicup, mixed with a finger and smeared with that finger on a limb. Earlier, when taking the 4mg B6 I used more water and smeared a whole leg or two. No difference.

transdermal cremes and patches you can buy

I collected these before discovering that I can do it myself. I think they are not worth the money. An exception might be B12 which is a huge molecule. An exception is also if you want timed release which some of them provide.



http://www.leesilsby.com/transdermal-b-complex-cream/
there is no statement on timed release, so probably it gets resorbed too fast and is peed out in urine

Each Serving Contains Amount per 0.5ml
Vitamin B1 (as Thiamine HCl) 5mg
Vitamin B2 (as Riboflavin-5-Phosphate) 7.5mg
Vitamin B3 (as Niacinamide) 25mg
Vitamin B5 (as Pantothenic Acid) 12.5mg
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate) 12.5mg
Biotin 100mcg
Folinic Acid (optional) 400mcg


http://www.leesilsby.com/other-b-complex-transdermals/
they have different cremes:

B-Complex Transdermal Cream without P-5-P

Leucovorin Transdermal

Methylcobalamin Transdermal

Methylcobalamin/Folinic Acid/TMG Cream

Niacinamide Transdermal

Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate (P-5-P) Transdermal Cream

Riboflavin-5-Phosphate (R-5-P) Transdermal Cream

Thiamine Transdermal
http://www.ageforce.com/healthblog/374-b-vitamins-–why-they’re-important
no data on quantities, no statement on timed release.

• B1 (Thiamine)
• B2 (Riboflavin)
• B3 (Niacin)
• B5 (Pantothenic Acid)
• B6 (Pyridoxalphosphate P5P)
• B7 (Biotin)
• B9 (Folic Acid as Methylfolate)
• Vitamin B12 patch (Hydroxy Cobalamin)

http://www.b12oils.com/BGroupBuy.htm
B1, B2, B3, B5, B6 and B12 premixed in the one easy to use preparation. Now with vitamin H (biotin).

they answered nicely by email to my question on quantities:

Dose per 0.25 ml squirt
Vitamin B1 Thiamine 0.5 mg
Vitamin B2 Riboflavin 0.025 mg
Vitamin B3 Nicotinamide 2.5 mg
Vitamin B5 Pantothenol 1.25 mg
Vitamin B6 Pyridoxal 1.25 mg
Biotin 0.15 mg
AdenosylCbl 0.5 mg

slowly releases over hours to give more uniform dosing so that less is lost in urine.


multivitamin patch. resorbs in 10h:
http://texastransdermals.com/products-2/

B3 patches
https://www.amazon.com/Niacinamide-...&qid=1468001734&sr=8-6&keywords=vitamin+cream
this is the only transdermal creme with ALA. also sold on amazon:
http://hormonesolutionscenter.com/product/b-complex-cream-by-sarati/

i need a multivitamin transdermal that don’t contain methylfolate or methylcolabamin and chromium where can I get it ? And I need manganèse so much transdermally how can I get it ?

 

[Grigor]

i need a multivitamin transdermal that don’t contain methylfolate or methylcolabamin and chromium where can I get it ? And I need manganèse so much transdermally how can I get it ?

Interesting you don't tolerate chromium either!

 

[percyval577]

I took B´s in a combo and it didn´t anything.

Three years later I had the idea to take stuff not together. This was a first strike.
I sorted out B9 and B6.

Then I took the stuff in small dose, putting it into water and drinking only a sip. Second strike.
It´s also nice to have some sequence.


(It´s though only a part of a more complex supplementation and avoidance.)