Olive Leaf Extract

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
2,086
Likes
4,991
Location
United States, New Hampshire
I’m currently testing Olive Leaf extract, and I’m on day 2. If I were to experience die off from this, how quickly would I notice it?
My experience with Olive leaf extract and other herbs is that if I don't experience die-off in the first 3 days, I won't get any.

I would say, if you started it on Monday and don't have any die-off by Thursday, you probably won't have any.
 

GreenMachineX

Senior Member
Messages
183
Likes
83
Started using a stronger oleuropein extract of this, and it makes me severely fatigued and a bit out of it. Also my stomach/intestines have been gurgling a bit so I’m wondering if it’s killing something off. I might have a Lyme infection as well as Candida but the labcorp test wasn’t as conclusive as it should’ve been (3 positive bands instead of 5 or something, can’t recall exactly). Not sure if I should stick with this move back to the weaker one for longer period of time...
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
2,086
Likes
4,991
Location
United States, New Hampshire
Started using a stronger oleuropein extract of this, and it makes me severely fatigued and a bit out of it. Also my stomach/intestines have been gurgling a bit so I’m wondering if it’s killing something off.
I experience the same feelings of fatigue, brain fog or feeling out of it from olive leaf extract and many other herbs that kill off bacteria in the gut.I also sometimes get stomach gurgling like you mention.

When you kill off bacteria in the gut, there outer cell membrane releases something called lipopolysaccharides, which are very toxic and cause an immune system reaction and low grade intestinal inflammation. That's what makes us feel so bad.

Not sure if I should stick with this move back to the weaker one for longer period of time...
That I would say is just a judgement call. I prefer to keep my dose of herbs that kill off the bacterial overgrowth in my gut and therefore the die-off effects from it to a minimum.

That way I can function at a higher level and still be lowering the bacterial overgrowth.

I might have a Lyme infection as well as Candida but the labcorp test wasn’t as conclusive as it should’ve been (3 positive bands instead of 5 or something, can’t recall exactly).
As far as the lyme disease goes. I don't know of any tests for lyme that are highly accurate. My personal view is that chronic lyme disease is way over-diagnosed because of the lack of accuracy in testing.
 

GreenMachineX

Senior Member
Messages
183
Likes
83
I experience the same feelings of fatigue, brain fog or feeling out of it from olive leaf extract and many other herbs that kill off bacteria in the gut.I also sometimes get stomach gurgling like you mention.

When you kill off bacteria in the gut, there outer cell membrane releases something called lipopolysaccharides, which are very toxic and cause an immune system reaction and low grade intestinal inflammation. That's what makes us feel so bad.



That I would say is just a judgement call. I prefer to keep my dose of herbs that kill off the bacterial overgrowth in my gut and therefore the die-off effects from it to a minimum.

That way I can function at a higher level and still be lowering the bacterial overgrowth.



As far as the lyme disease goes. I don't know of any tests for lyme that are highly accurate. My personal view is that chronic lyme disease is way over-diagnosed because of the lack of accuracy in testing.
Gotcha. Yeah, whether I have Lyme or not, I don’t care as the treatment for Candida and that seem to overlap a lot.
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
2,086
Likes
4,991
Location
United States, New Hampshire
Do any of you know if taking Olive leafextract
Improves energy?
I am severe and bedbound.
Would it be worth me trying it ?
I don't think Olive leaf extract (OLE) is a good choice to increase energy. It did give me a boost in energy for a few days but then it stopped, like most of the supplements I've tried.

The biggest problem with OLE is the die-off symptoms it causes from killing bad bacteria in the gut. For someone very sick with ME/CFS that could be devastating.

The only supplement that I have found that has worked consistently to increase my energy, not just temporarily, is Branched chain amino acids (BCAA's).

I have been taking them for about 4 months or so and they are still working. I didn't get a big boost in energy until I got to 15 grams a day for about 2 weeks.

In fact 20 grams a day gave me so much energy I got insomnia and had to cut back to 14-15 grams a day! I now take 14 grams a day, first thing in the morning so I don't have any problems sleeping.
 

GreenMachineX

Senior Member
Messages
183
Likes
83
Do any of you know if taking Olive leafextract
Improves energy?
I am severe and bedbound.
Would it be worth me trying it ?
I would suggest methylcobalamin b12 and methylfolate before olive leaf. Those have been life changing. The fatigue olive leaf extract is giving me (probably from die off) is overwhelming. Also anxiety and chest tightness are not pleasant.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,665
Likes
1,425
When you kill off bacteria in the gut, there outer cell membrane releases something called lipopolysaccharides, which are very toxic and cause an immune system reaction and low grade intestinal inflammation. That's what makes us feel so bad.
is there any way to mitigate the effects of lipopolysaccharides?
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
2,086
Likes
4,991
Location
United States, New Hampshire
is there any way to mitigate the effects of lipopolysaccharides?
One way is to take activated charcoal, it absorbs toxins in the gut. I take 2.5 grams every day on an empty stomach. Another way, I just heard a functional medicine doctor say this on a webinar the other day.

Is to take apple pectin. It activates something in the gut that helps the gut to heal as well as absorbs LPS, if I remember right.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,665
Likes
1,425
One way is to take activated charcoal, it absorbs toxins in the gut. I take 2.5 grams every day on an empty stomach. Another way, I just heard a functional medicine doctor say this on a webinar the other day.
is charcoal constipating? I've taken it, and it seemed like it was, but v hard to tell..

Is to take apple pectin. It activates something in the gut that helps the gut to heal as well as absorbs LPS, if I remember right.
good to know! that's one thing I haven't tried yet :) does it also help w constipation?
 

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
296
Likes
323
Location
United Kingdom
https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/lipopolysaccharides/
CFS shows higher levels of LPS and LPS causes fatigue. This might be due to the inflammation caused by LPS and it's effect on mitochondria.

There are some herbal formulas which have anti-inflammatory effects which reduces the effects of LPS:
Cissus Quadrangularis is one but it does seem to have sedating effects so I doubt it's value.
Other herbal formulas with effects against LPS and inflammation:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5662831/
There are most likely many more herbs with LPS binding properties.

One way is to take activated charcoal, it absorbs toxins in the gut. I take 2.5 grams every day on an empty stomach. Another way, I just heard a functional medicine doctor say this on a webinar the other day.

Is to take apple pectin. It activates something in the gut that helps the gut to heal as well as absorbs LPS, if I remember right.
I doubt that is true because it is an infection which is causing all the problems and pectin will not have any effect on the infection(s) therefore it is a fanciful idea that pectin will heal the gut. It is far more difficult than that.
is charcoal constipating? I've taken it, and it seemed like it was, but v hard to tell..



good to know! that's one thing I haven't tried yet :) does it also help w constipation?
Constipation in CFS and many other conditions is caused by low levels of acetylcholine resulting from insufficient choline due to dramatically high detox demands caused by Increased Digestive Permeability. The liver needs so much choline for detox that there is insufficient left for acetylcholine production ie detox takes precedence. Unfortunately supplementing Choline can cause problems in CFS due to high levels in the brain. Anything but small amounts, insufficient to meet my bodies needs, causes tiredness and sleepiness. I can manage about 200mg of Choline Bitartrate which is a tiny amount of Choline, only around 41% off the top of my head.

Choline is anti-dopaminergic and often makes undermethylated patients worse.

Taking choline with acetyl l carnitine is meant to help promote acetylcholine production but chances are that the choline will still be used up for detox purposes and not help a great deal unless you can tolerate large quantities to make up for the deficit.
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
2,086
Likes
4,991
Location
United States, New Hampshire
is charcoal constipating? I've taken it, and it seemed like it was, but v hard to tell..
I also have a hard time telling if the charcoal I take is constipating. I seemed like it was at first but then it was no longer a problem. I have IBS, so my digestion is not consistent anyway.

good to know! that's one thing I haven't tried yet :) does it also help w constipation?
It should help with constipation because apple pectin is a soluble fiber.

I'm now focused on prebiotic fibers, to help increase the healthy bacteria I have in my gut, in addition to everything else I'm doing. I'm taking inulin and resistant starch from modified potato starch.

I also just ordered some acacia fiber and will add that to the mix in a few days. :) Each different prebiotic feeds different strains of bacteria in different places along the gut. Helping to create a more diverse microbiota with many more healthy bacteria.

Something I read yesterday hit me as very odd. I found out that acacia fiber, although it's a prebiotic, is low FODMAP! I thought all prebiotics were high FODMAP. I learn something new every day!:)

Treating the gut is often a monumental, long term effort but well worth it!!:thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
2,086
Likes
4,991
Location
United States, New Hampshire
@ljimbo423
Turns out I am herxing a bit from the olive leaf lower dose. It’s not too bad, definitely tolerable, but how long will this last roughly? Couple weeks or months?
I don't know. The die-off or herxing I get only lasts for 1-3 days now but I've been taking antibiotic herbs for about a year and a half.

Even when I first started taking them though, a year and a half ago, the herx only lasted a few days tops. I had also been on a low carb diet for several months when I started taking them. Carbs feed the bacterial overgrowth in the gut.

So being low carb for a while before I started the herbs probably made the die-off milder than it would have been had I not already been low carb. Are you on a low carb diet?

Going low carb was really hard for me but I would be a lot sicker than I am now had I not gone low carb.

You might want to try BCAA's at a dose of 10-15 grams a day to help reduce fatigue and increase your energy levels. I take 14 grams every morning and it makes a big difference!
 

GreenMachineX

Senior Member
Messages
183
Likes
83
@ljimbo423
Gotcha. I do keto a couple times a year but not for longer than a couple months. I do plan on it again after the holidays. The die off symptoms were much better today.

BCAAs always make me so tired/fatigued. I can’t use them unless during my workout when adrenaline is pumping.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,665
Likes
1,425
It should help with constipation because apple pectin is a soluble fiber.
"soluble" means it draws water into the intestines, right?

I'm now focused on prebiotic fibers, to help increase the healthy bacteria I have in my gut, in addition to everything else I'm doing. I'm taking inulin and resistant starch from modified potato starch.
which mod. potato starch do you take?


I also just ordered some acacia fiber and will add that to the mix in a few days. :) Each different prebiotic feeds different strains of bacteria in different places along the gut. Helping to create a more diverse microbiota with many more healthy bacteria.
what strains do these prebiotics feed:
  • acacia
  • modified potato starch
  • inulin
  • chicory
Something I read yesterday hit me as very odd. I found out that acacia fiber, although it's a prebiotic, is low FODMAP! I thought all prebiotics were high FODMAP. I learn something new every day!:)
interesting... no wonder so many IBS'ers swear by it

Treating the gut is often a monumental, long term effort but well worth it!!:thumbsup:
seriously :)
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
2,086
Likes
4,991
Location
United States, New Hampshire
"soluble" means it draws water into the intestines, right?
I think it means it dissolves in water but it also absorbs water, improving elimination.

which mod. potato starch do you take?
I'm taking Bob's Red Mill.

what strains do these prebiotics feed:
  • acacia
  • modified potato starch
  • inulin
  • chicory
I think primarily Bifidus and Acidophillus but some also feed other "good" bacteria. Which other ones specifically, I can't remember.:)
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
2,086
Likes
4,991
Location
United States, New Hampshire
does this improve bloating? it sounds like it would..
It might make it worse at first, until your body adjusts to it. That's why it's a good idea to start with a very low dose and see what happens. In time it should improve bloating.

do you know which improves bifidus, specifically?
I do remember reading that acacia fiber increased bifidus much better than inulin did. I don't remember reading if potato starch was any better than acacia at increasing bifidus.