OAT, PLEASE INTERPET

[alicec]

Regarding the stool test, here is an interpretive guide from Genova.

Probably the most outstanding thing is the distorted SCFA production (low butyrate and acetate, high propionate) which reflects the balance of gut flora. The PCR analysis illustrates this since virtually all of the butyrate producers are low or very low (Clostridium, Coprococcus, Faecalibacterium, Roseburia, Ruminococcus).

Bifidobacterium is low (an acetate producer).

Prebiotics and diet are the best ways to influence this.

Prebiotics might also be a good thing for the high cholesterol. This is potentially a good thing since it means you a excreting it. However here is the increased potential for it to be reabsorbed in the enterohepatic circulation. Prebiotic fibres help absorb it and ensure it is disposed of in the stool.

High secretory IgA is probably indicative of inflammation.

 

[Jimbo39]

@alicec Have you ever tried to make coconut yogurt? I found some at Sprouts but it has a lot of sugar in it. It's called SO Delicious. A little pricey ($2/5.3 oz). It was so good, I ate the whole container (which in hindsight I probably shouldn't have.) I think this proves my body is really wanting it.

I also got some goat milk yogurt. It's supposed to have a different kind of casein. From what I read the bad casein came from a mutation in European cows thousands of years ago.

I couldn't find any green banana flour. What the? Im kind of disappointed with Sprouts. It's really not, what I would consider, a health food store. Anyway, I got some rice flour as a substitute but this seems to defeat the purpose because the banana flour is the main prebiotic ingredient. Does coconut flour have any prebiotic properties?

Just got your post on my stool test. Will read it now.

 

[Gondwanaland]

What the? Im kind of disappointed with Sprouts.

I suppose you can get anything you want online with free delivery being in San Diego. I wish I lived in the US!

 

[Jimbo39]

Regarding the stool test, here is an interpretive guide from Genova.

Yes, I read the guide. I don't know how much I understood or was useful. Some of the comments were kind of vague. For example, it says calprotectin could distinguish between IBS and IBD but there could be a false negative if your immune system is severely compromised.

Probably the most outstanding thing is the distorted SCFA production (low butyrate and acetate, high propionate) which reflects the balance of gut flora. The PCR analysis illustrates this since virtually all of the butyrate producers are low or very low (Clostridium, Coprococcus, Faecalibacterium, Roseburia, Ruminococcus).

I noticed this as well. Could this be the result of the of the overuse of antibiotics? Not that it matters anymore. So eating more prebiotic foods will help get my butyrate and acetate levels up? The guide did mention the need for fiber to increase SCFA. I thought acetate was bad? In my notes I wrote down Propionate is a fermentation product resulting in brain toxins. Is this true?

Bifidobacterium is low (an acetate producer).

My Nexabiotic has B. Bifidum, breve, lactis, infantis, and longum. I'm starting to think prebiotics are more helpful than probiotics. It seems that introducing different strains may not be all that helpful if you don't have the right environment to sustain them.

Prebiotics might also be a good thing for the high cholesterol. This is potentially a good thing since it means you a excreting it. However here is the increased potential for it to be reabsorbed in the enterohepatic circulation. Prebiotic fibres help absorb it and ensure it is disposed of in the stool.

Another reason for adding prebiotics. I wonder if entrohepatic reabsorbtion may contribute to a high blood cholesterol reading? I'm not really sure what entrohepatic is. I know hepatic has to do with the liver.

I've been taking red rice yeast but I need to test to see if it's working. The main cholesterol lowering ingredient is lovastatin. Big Pharma uses a synthetic form of this in their cholesterol lowering statin drugs. So they,with the collusion of the FDA, has declared lovastatin a drug and any red rice yeast in the US cannot have lovastatin in it. This is another example of the tremendous influence Big Phara has in keeping natural remedies out of the hands of the public and lining their own pockets. Sorry, I could rant on this subject until the cows come home. What they don't know is that there are other cholesterol lowing ingredients in red rice yeast and they work synergisticly to lower cholesterol without the side effects of statin lowering drugs.

Re: Inflammation. Could this an indication of UC? Does leaky gut take place in the colon as well as the small intestine?

 

[Jimbo39]

@alicec Do you think I should be concerned about:
Lactobacillus NG
Esherichia coli +4
GH Streptococcus +3
?

 

[alicec]

Have you ever tried to make coconut yogurt? I found some at Sprouts but it has a lot of sugar in it.

No, can't help there. I've seen a few preparations that have reasonable ingredients but plenty that are suspect.

I also got some goat milk yogurt. It's supposed to have a different kind of casein

This is A2 milk. All sheep, goat and some cow milk has this form. I didn't follow the science closely but as I recall there was at least something to the claims - ie at least some people are adversely affect by breakdown products of A1 type casein.

I always eat sheep yogurt, because it is very difficult to find cow's milk yogurt that is just milk and culture (even most of the organic brands now seem to have added milk solids which I try to avoid - the drying process damages proteins and fats). Goat's milk yogurt is ok in this respect but I much prefer the taste and texture of the sheep's milk product.

Being A2 is a bonus.

I couldn't find any green banana flour

Yes try online. I buy almost everything that way - have never been much of a shopper and now I'd rather save my limited energy for doing important things.

 

[Jimbo39]

I can no longer afford any more office visits and tests. I got a bill from my old doc for $663. I thought this must be a mistake. When I called my insurance company they said I've got a $6,000 deductible. I am so stupid, stupid, stupid. How can anyone afford insurance unless you're working for a big company? Why can't we have a universal health care system like most developed as well as undeveloped countries. Big Pharma and the AMA have such an influence on politicians to ensure this doesn't happen. It's a broken system driven by greed. @Gondwanaland are you sure you want to live here?

 

[Gondwanaland]

are you sure you want to live here?

You don't wanna live where I live.

For how long have you been on your current diet? Your lab results don't reflect the clean diet you mentioned. Triglycerids for instance fall pretty quickly (90 days) with a paleo diet.

 

[Jimbo39]

For how long have you been on your current diet? Your lab results don't reflect the clean diet you mentioned. Triglycerids for instance fall pretty quickly (90 days) with a paleo diet.

I'm not really sure. I've been on a more strict diet the pass year. i.e. No fried foods, soy, sugar, low starch. My triglycerides have been high for the past 15-20 years. It when I was put on a lot of meds for CFS, tho it could be a coincidence.

 

[Jimbo39]

My daughter had to go to the emergency room. That's $2,700 out of pocket.

 

[alicec]

Some of the comments were kind of vague

They are necessarily general, trying to cover all eventualities. Bear in mind also that stool tests in general are very limited. There is some useful info to be gained from them but I have no confidence in the culture tests (more below).

Could this be the result of the of the overuse of antibiotics?

That would have a big effect on the balance of gut flora which in turn would influence proportions of SCFAs. Prebiotics will help to stimulate growth of the flora, providing of course that there is still some seed stock left. Even if some species have been totally wiped out, there is a lot of redundancy in the microbiome - ie various species can perform the same functions. Mind you there are some key species that many others depend on. If these are absent, there might be trouble.

I thought acetate was bad? In my notes I wrote down Propionate is a fermentation product resulting in brain toxins. Is this true?

Too much acetate (or propionate) might be a problem, but in general acetate is the major SCFA. It plays a role in the gut since many of the important butyrate producers consume acetate - ie they are dependant on acetate producers (this is the notion of cross-feeding which occurs to a great extent in the gut).

Significant amounts of acetate are also carried from the gut to the liver (and other tissues) where it is used for energy production and synthesis of fatty acids and some amino acids (eg glu and gln).

Small amounts of propionate and butyrate from the gut also make it into our circulation. We also produce propionate and you are right - too much can be neurotoxic, but propionate has many positive effects - anti-inflammatory, improves insulin sensitivity, to name just a couple.

It seems that introducing different strains may not be all that helpful if you don't have the right environment to sustain them.

Just taking bifido-containing probiotics may well not be enough to change the gut (perhaps it might be helpful in a healthy person), but that doesn't mean it is pointless to take them. In general probiotics do little to change the gut flora but they do have a beneficial effect on the host immune system as they transit through, plus probably prevent less desirable species from taking up residence, plus certain strains at least digest oxalates.

I try to do both - prebiotics (dietary and supplemental) and probiotics in high dose.

I wonder if entrohepatic reabsorbtion may contribute to a high blood cholesterol reading? I'm not really sure what entrohepatic is. I know hepatic has to do with the liver.

Yes exactly, hence the value of fibres which keep it trapped in the gut. Entero refers to gut. Here is the Wikipedia entry.

Inflammation. Could this an indication of UC? Does leaky gut take place in the colon as well as the small intestine?

If you had UC you'd have other symptoms, it is a serious disease. I was thinking of a much lower level of inflammation which again probably reflects balance of gut flora.

Leaky gut is a problem throughout the gut though the colon is main the source of much of the toxic stuff like lipopolysaccharide.

 

[alicec]

Why can't we have a universal health care system like most developed as well as undeveloped countries.

In all the comparisons I have seen of health systems in developed countries, the USA is well down the list. Certainly for all the criticisms that various countries make of their health systems, I have never heard of any wishing to adopt the US system with its expense and inequity.

 

[Jimbo39]

Voila

 

[Jimbo39]

In all the comparisons I have seen of health systems in developed countries, the USA is well down the list. Certainly for all the criticisms that various countries make of their health systems, I have never heard of any wishing to adopt the US system with its expense and inequity.

I've seen first hand families loosing all their savings on health care. Care? That's an oxymoron.

 

[alicec]

@alicec Do you think I should be concerned about:
Lactobacillus NG
Esherichia coli +4
GH Streptococcus +3
?

Not really. Culturing organisms from the gut in order to identify them was once the only way we had to study the gut flora. It was not until DNA sequencing techniques were developed that we came to understand that the technique was selecting a minor portion of the flora and missing the vast majority.

Culture essentially selects for aerotolerant organisms which are amenable to growing in artificial conditions. Things like E.coli and Streptococcus do this very readily. Most of the gut flora, however, consists of anaerobes, many of which are so far unculturable (even under strictly anaerobic conditions).

I did my first uBiome test in parallel with a Genova GI Effects test. There was little agreement.

For example supposedly I had high amounts of E.coli and moderate amounts of Klebsiella and one of the nasty Streptococci (forget which), according to Genova. That first uBiome test showed no detectable Eschericia or Klebsiella (it is possible they were there at very low level), nor has either been detected in more than a dozen tests since. Streptococcus has remained at fairly low levels and I know which strain this is - one of the benign, indeed one that is a core gut inhabitant.

It is possible to reconcile the results by imagining that the Genova test is just selecting a very minor consistuent which cultures extremely well.

Eschericia and Streptococcus are normal gut constituents though they can become opportunistic pathogens. Klebsiella too is often present at very low levels, though again can become a serious opportunistic pathogen.

Lactobacillus is usually a fairly minor gut component, despite what the probiotic manufacturers would have us believe. It is much more dominant and important in the mouth, vagina and probably small intestine.

Unless you have serious gut issues suggesting pathogen overgrowth, I'd just be relying on improving overall gut health.

 

[alicec]

Voila

Well done!

 

[Jimbo39]

Mind you there are some key species that many others depend on. If these are absent, there might be trouble.

There are thousands of species residing in the gut. How would one know who the key players are and how would you reseed them? What do you think of fecal transplants?

Significant amounts of acetate are also carried from the gut to the liver (and other tissues) where it is used for energy production and synthesis of fatty acids and some amino acids (eg glu and gln).

Interesting. Acetate is a powerful solvent and toxin.

I try to do both - prebiotics (dietary and supplemental) and probiotics in high dose.

I take 35 million/day. Supposedly, the brand I take has a special coating to survive stomach acid. The question I have is, if it can survive acid, how is it going to ge dispersed in your gut? Maybe a timed released coating.

Leaky gut is a problem throughout the gut though the colon is main the source of much of the toxic stuff like lipopolysaccharide.

Yes, I've read a little bit about LPS. I can see how the constant autoimmune response can quickly tax your body. Not sure what one can do about it.

 

[Jimbo39]

I guess autoimmune is not the right word. More like a constant state on infection whatever that's called.

 

[Jimbo39]

I did my first uBiome test in parallel with a Genova GI Effects test. There was little agreement.

It must be a daunting task going over all that data. So I imagine anaerobes would be hard to reseed given their sensitivity to oxygenation?

Unless you have serious gut issues suggesting pathogen overgrowth, I'd just be relying on improving overall gut health.

I'm guessing I don't. So I'm going to put this to rest and not stress over it.

 

[Jimbo39]

It must be a daunting task going over all that data. So I imagine anaerobes would be hard to reseed given their sensitivity to oxygenation

I meant oxidation. Brain dead