OAT - Organic Acid Testing - is it useful?
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bertiedog
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Genova Europe do one and also Great Plains can be ordered. I looked it up this morning and the Great Plains one is about 299 dollars.
Pam
Thanks, had no luck googling, but now found it too: http://healthlinkpartners.com/intl_testkits/product_info.php?cPath=3&products_id=3
Does the testkit have any special requirement, like being frozen?
For the UK prices are :
Genova UK - £279 - practitioner required to order
GreatPlains (cheapest is via Biolab UK and they will freeze sample for onwards shipping to gpl usa) - £185 - practitioner required to order ....or you can order straight from GPL if you wish look at it's site for pricing etc. to your country.
Add on £20 ~ for a practitioner to order for you (we have services here for this where some nutritionists will order for you for a small fee, saves on the costs of a consult) and £? for return shipping to the distributor/lab or direct to the company itself GreatPlains (cheapest is via Biolab UK and they will freeze sample for onwards shipping to gpl usa) - £185 - practitioner required to order ....or you can order straight from GPL if you wish look at it's site for pricing etc. to your country.
There are some differences between GreatPlains OAT and Genova OAT. For example GreatPlains has moreclostridia and mold/fungi markers while Genova has some other stuff like D-Lactate and D-arabinitol (arabintol >
arabinose for fungal overgrowth)
If it's shipping international (to intermediary lab or direct to greatplains) I believe it is best to freeze the sample well before shipping and then ship alongside a ice pack. Best is to check with GPL and post here so anyone else can see.
On the other hand i do know your sample will stay viable in your freezer for months if any delay in sending it off.
bertiedog
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If it helps anyone I can order Genova tests because I have Practitioner status and I am happy to pass on the discount that I get. It is only a small discount but every bit helps. I have a Diploma in Nutrition hence me being able to order tests.
Pam
Pam
Sidney
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I see from the site that GPL offer many variations on their test.
Are there specific add-Ons that pwme should look for? I realise we have many different symptom clusters, but there must be some things that are most likely to be problematic for us?
Or for particular situations : for instance, are there any findings that specifically relate to autonomic conditions?
I have never had this kind of work done ( not the right doctors!), although I’ve have ME and various co-morbidities for several years.
All advice gratefully welcomed!
Are there specific add-Ons that pwme should look for? I realise we have many different symptom clusters, but there must be some things that are most likely to be problematic for us?
Or for particular situations : for instance, are there any findings that specifically relate to autonomic conditions?
I have never had this kind of work done ( not the right doctors!), although I’ve have ME and various co-morbidities for several years.
All advice gratefully welcomed!
Just did today and got already an answer. Great service! My questions in italics:
Considering the high prize including shipping, and then the linked to infos about shipping saying:
I'm a bid in doubt when on the one hand it could be spoiled when send over the weekend, but on the other how the 7 day delivery from the rest of the world could be just fine? No icepack would last that long during summer.
PS: Biolab's reply a day later:
Probably better to get it in the winter.
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I am bumping this thread because I have been looking into whether there is a reliable test for B6 status and OAT was one of those mentioned. It seems people have very different views on the overall utility/scientific basis of the test and looking for any additional enlightenment before spending more $$$.
grapes
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It is a VERY valuable test. To say otherwise implies someone doesn't get the significance of what it can tell you. But you also have to be prepared to study what the facility tells you, too, about your results, and sometimes go beyond that with an internet search to further tweak understanding. It's a tool!!
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It's been the single most important test regarding nutritional markers I've had. Serum tests show levels in the blood, but the Organic Acids test can show how your cells are using nutrients, as well as a host of other things.
For example, the amount of B6 in my blood seems fine, but the amount of Pyridoxic Acid read on the OAT is almost zero. That's a big deal. Though I still don't know exactly why or what it means, at least I know there's a big issue there now.
grapes
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Same--the single most important test I've done. From it, I found out about many different issues I have and am now treating. I wouldn't have known about them if I had not have done the OAT. And as a body ages, it's important to get ahead of these issues.
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I had Great Plains and am pretty happy with it.
It seems like a lot of naturopaths use Genova though, I'm not sure why exactly. I've been following Dr. Daniel Kalish and he uses Genova because one of his mentors helped design it. Maybe someone can elaborate?
grapes
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I also used Great Plains--lots of good info. Doctors will use whichever company promotes to them to the most...thus Genova. But Great Plains was great for me.
We had just a very simple blood test.
It might not tell you everything, but it will tell you if your B6 levels are too low or (in our case) too high.
An early GP had prescribed a tonne of supplements. One day I read the labels to see that everything had B6 in it. And yes, blood levels were indeed high.
So a stock standard blood test is enough if blood levels are all you need.
As already mentioned, the information of blood B6 is only valuable if too low, too high could also mean your body isn't really utilizing it because of some other unknown factor and therefore useless. Possible unknown factors could be other nutrients needed for it becoming possible to be utilized, or even much higher doses/different forms of B6 - because an particular bio-chemical individuality (different metabolism, genes, preconditions, etc.) just needs multiples than could be reflected by normal lab ranges (which usually are only a statistical construct, by excluding the highest and lowest 2.5%, and 'assuming' the middle 95% of all tested 'normal').
Learner1
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I have had both Great Plains OAT and Genova Diagnostics NutrEval. There is overlap between the two, and I have found the results of both to correlate well.
The NutrEval has been the most actionable test for me, as it includes antioxidants, trace minerals, lipids, toxins, digestive biomarkers, Krebs cycle, methylayion nutrients, neurotransmitter biomarkers, and amino acids, a lot of which are not on the OAT. The OAT has a few organic acids that are not on the NutrEval.
I believe I have the metabolic trap Phair found and the PDH blovkade Fluge and Mella found as well as huge oxidative stress with all antioxidants depleted. The OAT would not identify these problems. I got it paired with their mycotoxin test, which was interesting, but didn't give me any more actionable info than i had with the NutrEval.
Whst they both lack is a full set of mineral testing, which would be useful.
bjl218
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NutrEval was invaluable for me. I started having severe panic attacks out of the blue. NutrEval uncovered the fact that almost all of my B vitamins were low to severely low. Most likely due to a malabsorption issue and/or the fact that I had been taking cholestyramine for many months to treat CIRS. I stopped the cholestyramine months ago and am now waiting for the results of a second NutrEval and GI Effects (also Genova) test. Feeling much better now so I suspect that I'll see that my nutrient status has normalized.
It's really important to do a deep-dive into the results including using the interpretation guides that have been posted elsewhere in this forum.
It's really important to do a deep-dive into the results including using the interpretation guides that have been posted elsewhere in this forum.
That's true, but the question was about a test for B6.
A simple blood test is a cheap (free in Australia) and reliable screening test. It is an easy way to identify frank deficiency or surplus. With a bit of googling, you can interpret the numbers yourself so you don't have to accept a lab interpretation. The trick, of course, is to make sure you get hold of the lab results with the actual numbers. That way, you don't have to rely on those evil statisitical ranges (they don't do standard normal curves - we actually get real numbers).
We have had both OATS and simple blood tests. The latter is by far cheaper and a good first step. In same cases, the simple blood tests told us more, in other cases, it was the OATS.
If you're too low - well, you're too low.
If you're too high, and you haven't supplemented, then it's time for some more expensive follow-up investigations.
A simple blood test is a cheap (free in Australia) and reliable screening test. It is an easy way to identify frank deficiency or surplus. With a bit of googling, you can interpret the numbers yourself so you don't have to accept a lab interpretation. The trick, of course, is to make sure you get hold of the lab results with the actual numbers. That way, you don't have to rely on those evil statisitical ranges (they don't do standard normal curves - we actually get real numbers).
We have had both OATS and simple blood tests. The latter is by far cheaper and a good first step. In same cases, the simple blood tests told us more, in other cases, it was the OATS.
If you're too low - well, you're too low.
If you're too high, and you haven't supplemented, then it's time for some more expensive follow-up investigations.