No "PMO" seems to have a huge impact on hpa-axis

junkcrap50

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Personally I see this as related to the sensitivity/downregulation of dopamine receptors. Thyroid hormone at the right dose with the right timing seems to repair the whole feedback loop.
Yes. I would like more information about how thyroid can repair the feedback loop. Any experience showing that? I would think the feedback loop requires months to years of no use to repair itself. From what i've read, that's what some nofap patients require.
 

drob31

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Yes. I would like more information about how thyroid can repair the feedback loop. Any experience showing that? I would think the feedback loop requires months to years of no use to repair itself. From what i've read, that's what some nofap patients require.
I'm not sure exactly, but I'm sure it has to do with how t3 interacts with metabolism. Dopamine and other excitatory NE's I think are what cause many of the symptoms in general "CFS." Literally your brain is running slow like a dim light bulb, and of course that explains the potential depressive symptoms.

Avoiding caffeine, PMO, and taking tyrosine gave me big gains in energy and mental perception.
 

Thinktank

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I'm not sure exactly, but I'm sure it has to do with how t3 interacts with metabolism. Dopamine and other excitatory NE's I think are what cause many of the symptoms in general "CFS." Literally your brain is running slow like a dim light bulb, and of course that explains the potential depressive symptoms.

Avoiding caffeine, PMO, and taking tyrosine gave me big gains in energy and mental perception.
Ok, i will investigate the Thyroid-dopamine connection. Pre-NOFAP my TSH has been creeping up every year, despite T3 testing normal.

In regards to NOFAP - I've been abstaining from intercourse with my partner and doing NOFAP for almost 2 months now (hardmode). It's been extremely difficult to stick to it because i have a very high libido, i would seriously like it to be a bit less...
I don't have much time to write this post so it will be a bit of a rant.

After struggling for a few weeks I almost can't believe the positive effects abstaining from sex is having on me, especially on the nervous system.
My neurotransmitters are seriously out of order due to being drugged with benzodiazepines and other crap for years to suppress my anxiety / panic disorder and severe depression. This had led to iatrogenic damage - severe post-withdrawal syndrome. Anything that excites my nervous system causes a bad ME-crash.
Not to forget the years of unnecessary lyme treatment with strong antibiotics and experimental medication as prescribed by a quack ME-specialist from Belgium whom we all know that caused me to be bedridden for years.

Abstaining from intercourse and doing NOFAP is somehow balancing my neurochemistry.

I'm now "able" to work full-time. Although, I do feel completely destroyed at the end of the day and i have to spend the weekends in bed to charge up for the next 5 workdays.
Unfortunately i can't pick up my old profession in IT yet because that requires a brainfog-free brain, so i hope the improvement will continue to grow.

The improvement has also allowed me to pick up the weights again and do some very mild cardio.

Due to increased motivation, well-being and stamina i have been able to go through thousands of notes i have taken these past 10 years and implement strategies that have worked in the past.
The following is what has been helping me

* NO caffeine, it's just as bad as the aftermath of having intercourse or fapping. Caffeine gives me a boost of negative energy followed by a crash that can last for days. It prevents my CNS/ANS to heal.
* Avoid other triggers that excite the nervous system or influence the neurotransmitters in a negative way - sugars, alcohol, certain herbs etc.
* Intermittent fasting. I suffer from IBD and sticking with intermittent fasting has seriously improved my GI system. This in turn has improved my food intolerances, i also react less to foods which i have developed IgE antibodies to.
* Replaced the beta-agonist inhaler with a corticosteroid inhaler for my asthma. The beta-agonist was revving up my nervous system. The night-time asthma has improved and the apnea-symptoms have lessened. There's still something going on with my nervous system at night but it's improving.
* Introduced exercise again after a month of abstaining from intercourse and doing NOFAP, i'm building this up very very slowly to avoid a crash.
* Limit resistant starch. Causes too much gas, and in my case intestinal gas == severe brain fog and an increase in bodywide inflammation.
* Limit sulfur-veggies. Eating veggies like broccoli etc. always causes smelly gas (H2S), my guess is that this neurotoxin leaks through my intestinal lining into my bloodstream causing bad brain-fog.
* Avoid high FODMAP-food. -> FODMAPS cause dysbiosis and triggers my IBD.
* Avoid all foods i'm IgG and IgE-positive to.
* Occasionally use of lipid-bound curcumin and 5mg baclofen when needed.
* Removed gluten yet again, i'm now 100% sure it's causing the joint pain, increases brain fog and overall inflammation. IgG-positive foods absolutely increase inflammation in my body, whatever conventional doctors say.
* No dairy. This has improved overall inflammation, GI system and brain fog.
* cut toxic relationships. I need to be at peace of mind to heal myself.

I have thrown all supplements and medicines etc. in the trashbin, except for the ones mentioned above. I'm very sensitive to meds and supplements, most of the time something works but then after a while it develops side effects. I've tried everything, so much money and time wasted it's unbelievable. IMO it all has to do with the over-excited nervous system, dysbiosis and hyperpermeable intestinal lining which is interconnected and influencing each other.

The improvements i have gained so far are:
* Way less anxiety and panic (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* less depression, i can see light at the end of the tunnel now, i was suicidal before (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse) My depression is 100% induced by inflammation. For example when my IBD is triggered i feel like i want to die. The psychobabble claiming depression is psychogenic is completely wrong.
* I can cope with stress a bit better (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* more stamina (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* less PEM
* Motivation, this has 100% to do with NOFAP and the dopamine receptors
* slightly less brain fog
* Improved sensitivity to sound and light (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* Skin has seriously improved, less "inflamed" look (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* no more acne (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* hair loss stopped (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* able to exercise, albeit mild and slow
* "able" to work full-time (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* less pressure in my head, less neuro-inflammation
* My eyes look less inflamed
* The deep pain in my muscles is gone
* No more joint pain except in my right knee (gluten)
* Less flu-like feeling, due to improvement of the immune-system?

There are more improvements to list, i will re-evaluate next month and write a more coherent post.
Bye for now.
 
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drob31

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Ok, i will investigate the Thyroid-dopamine connection. Pre-NOFAP my TSH has been creeping up every year, despite T3 testing normal.

In regards to NOFAP - I've been abstaining from intercourse with my partner and doing NOFAP for almost 2 months now (hardmode). It's been extremely difficult to stick to it because i have a very high libido, i would seriously like it to be a bit less...
I don't have much time to write this post so it will be a bit of a rant.

After struggling for a few weeks I almost can't believe the positive effects abstaining from sex is having on me, especially on the nervous system.
My neurotransmitters are seriously out of order due to being drugged with benzodiazepines and other crap for years to suppress my anxiety / panic disorder and severe depression. This had led to iatrogenic damage - severe post-withdrawal syndrome. Anything that excites my nervous system causes a bad ME-crash.
Not to forget the years of unnecessary lyme treatment with strong antibiotics and experimental medication as prescribed by a quack ME-specialist from Belgium whom we all know that caused me to be bedridden for years.

Abstaining from intercourse and doing NOFAP is somehow balancing my neurochemistry.

I'm now "able" to work full-time. Although, I do feel completely destroyed at the end of the day and i have to spend the weekends in bed to charge up for the next 5 workdays.
Unfortunately i can't pick up my old profession in IT yet because that requires a brainfog-free brain, so i hope the improvement will continue to grow.

The improvement has also allowed me to pick up the weights again and do some very mild cardio.

Due to increased motivation, well-being and stamina i have been able to go through thousands of notes i have taken these past 10 years and implement strategies that have worked in the past.
The following is what has been helping me

* NO caffeine, it's just as bad as the aftermath of having intercourse or fapping. Caffeine gives me a boost of negative energy followed by a crash that can last for days. It prevents my CNS/ANS to heal.
* Avoid other triggers that excite the nervous system or influence the neurotransmitters in a negative way - sugars, alcohol, certain herbs etc.
* Intermittent fasting. I suffer from IBD and sticking with intermittent fasting has seriously improved my GI system. This in turn has improved my food intolerances, i also react less to foods which i have developed IgE antibodies to.
* Replaced the beta-agonist inhaler with a corticosteroid inhaler for my asthma. The beta-agonist was revving up my nervous system. The night-time asthma has improved and the apnea-symptoms have lessened. There's still something going on with my nervous system at night but it's improving.
* Introduced exercise again after a month of abstaining from intercourse and doing NOFAP, i'm building this up very very slowly to avoid a crash.
* Limit resistant starch. Causes too much gas, and in my case intestinal gas == severe brain fog and an increase in bodywide inflammation.
* Limit sulfur-veggies. Eating veggies like broccoli etc. always causes smelly gas (H2S), my guess is that this neurotoxin leaks through my intestinal lining into my bloodstream causing bad brain-fog.
* Avoid high FODMAP-food. -> FODMAPS cause dysbiosis and triggers my IBD.
* Avoid all foods i'm IgG and IgE-positive to.
* Occasionally use of lipid-bound curcumin and 5mg baclofen when needed.
* Removed gluten yet again, i'm now 100% sure it's causing the joint pain, increases brain fog and overall inflammation. IgG-positive foods absolutely increase inflammation in my body, whatever conventional doctors say.
* No dairy. This has improved overall inflammation, GI system and brain fog.
* cut toxic relationships. I need to be at peace of mind to heal myself.

I have thrown all supplements and medicines etc. in the trashbin, except for the ones mentioned above. I'm very sensitive to meds and supplements, most of the time something works but then after a while it develops side effects. I've tried everything, so much money and time wasted it's unbelievable. IMO it all has to do with the over-excited nervous system, dysbiosis and hyperpermeable intestinal lining which is interconnected and influencing each other.

The improvements i have gained so far are:
* Way less anxiety and panic (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* less depression, i can see light at the end of the tunnel now, i was suicidal before (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse) My depression is 100% induced by inflammation. For example when my IBD is triggered i feel like i want to die. The psychobabble claiming depression is psychogenic is completely wrong.
* I can cope with stress a bit better (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* more stamina (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* less PEM
* Motivation, this has 100% to do with NOFAP and the dopamine receptors
* slightly less brain fog
* Improved sensitivity to sound and light (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* Skin has seriously improved, less "inflamed" look (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* no more acne (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* hair loss stopped (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* able to exercise, albeit mild and slow
* "able" to work full-time (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* less pressure in my head, less neuro-inflammation
* My eyes look less inflamed
* The deep pain in my muscles is gone
* No more joint pain except in my right knee (gluten)
* Less flu-like feeling, due to improvement of the immune-system?

There are more improvements to list, i will re-evaluate next month and write a more coherent post.
Bye for now.

One think that helps me along with what you mentioned that I recently discovered is Cerebrolysin.
 

J.G

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I'll drop this here. My line of thinking's been this:

If I understand it correctly, per the metabolic trap theory PWME have *excess* serotonin in their systems. (It's our main (?) way of metabolising (excess) Tryptophan, with the IDO/TDO lock & absence of C. Sporogenes). Note that PWME do terribly on SSRI's. Many men with PWME also report a form of post-orgasmic illness. Under these conditions, might orgasm be causing a temporary serotonin syndrome of sorts, flooding the CNS with serotonin that we moreover struggle to clear due to existing body burden, and causing all sorts of downstream immunological and metabolic effects? Serotonin is a master regulator, modulating the HPA axis among other things.*
 
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Ok, i will investigate the Thyroid-dopamine connection. Pre-NOFAP my TSH has been creeping up every year, despite T3 testing normal.

In regards to NOFAP - I've been abstaining from intercourse with my partner and doing NOFAP for almost 2 months now (hardmode). It's been extremely difficult to stick to it because i have a very high libido, i would seriously like it to be a bit less...
I don't have much time to write this post so it will be a bit of a rant.

After struggling for a few weeks I almost can't believe the positive effects abstaining from sex is having on me, especially on the nervous system.
My neurotransmitters are seriously out of order due to being drugged with benzodiazepines and other crap for years to suppress my anxiety / panic disorder and severe depression. This had led to iatrogenic damage - severe post-withdrawal syndrome. Anything that excites my nervous system causes a bad ME-crash.
Not to forget the years of unnecessary lyme treatment with strong antibiotics and experimental medication as prescribed by a quack ME-specialist from Belgium whom we all know that caused me to be bedridden for years.

Abstaining from intercourse and doing NOFAP is somehow balancing my neurochemistry.

I'm now "able" to work full-time. Although, I do feel completely destroyed at the end of the day and i have to spend the weekends in bed to charge up for the next 5 workdays.
Unfortunately i can't pick up my old profession in IT yet because that requires a brainfog-free brain, so i hope the improvement will continue to grow.

The improvement has also allowed me to pick up the weights again and do some very mild cardio.

Due to increased motivation, well-being and stamina i have been able to go through thousands of notes i have taken these past 10 years and implement strategies that have worked in the past.
The following is what has been helping me

* NO caffeine, it's just as bad as the aftermath of having intercourse or fapping. Caffeine gives me a boost of negative energy followed by a crash that can last for days. It prevents my CNS/ANS to heal.
* Avoid other triggers that excite the nervous system or influence the neurotransmitters in a negative way - sugars, alcohol, certain herbs etc.
* Intermittent fasting. I suffer from IBD and sticking with intermittent fasting has seriously improved my GI system. This in turn has improved my food intolerances, i also react less to foods which i have developed IgE antibodies to.
* Replaced the beta-agonist inhaler with a corticosteroid inhaler for my asthma. The beta-agonist was revving up my nervous system. The night-time asthma has improved and the apnea-symptoms have lessened. There's still something going on with my nervous system at night but it's improving.
* Introduced exercise again after a month of abstaining from intercourse and doing NOFAP, i'm building this up very very slowly to avoid a crash.
* Limit resistant starch. Causes too much gas, and in my case intestinal gas == severe brain fog and an increase in bodywide inflammation.
* Limit sulfur-veggies. Eating veggies like broccoli etc. always causes smelly gas (H2S), my guess is that this neurotoxin leaks through my intestinal lining into my bloodstream causing bad brain-fog.
* Avoid high FODMAP-food. -> FODMAPS cause dysbiosis and triggers my IBD.
* Avoid all foods i'm IgG and IgE-positive to.
* Occasionally use of lipid-bound curcumin and 5mg baclofen when needed.
* Removed gluten yet again, i'm now 100% sure it's causing the joint pain, increases brain fog and overall inflammation. IgG-positive foods absolutely increase inflammation in my body, whatever conventional doctors say.
* No dairy. This has improved overall inflammation, GI system and brain fog.
* cut toxic relationships. I need to be at peace of mind to heal myself.

I have thrown all supplements and medicines etc. in the trashbin, except for the ones mentioned above. I'm very sensitive to meds and supplements, most of the time something works but then after a while it develops side effects. I've tried everything, so much money and time wasted it's unbelievable. IMO it all has to do with the over-excited nervous system, dysbiosis and hyperpermeable intestinal lining which is interconnected and influencing each other.

The improvements i have gained so far are:
* Way less anxiety and panic (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* less depression, i can see light at the end of the tunnel now, i was suicidal before (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse) My depression is 100% induced by inflammation. For example when my IBD is triggered i feel like i want to die. The psychobabble claiming depression is psychogenic is completely wrong.
* I can cope with stress a bit better (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* more stamina (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* less PEM
* Motivation, this has 100% to do with NOFAP and the dopamine receptors
* slightly less brain fog
* Improved sensitivity to sound and light (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* Skin has seriously improved, less "inflamed" look (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* no more acne (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* hair loss stopped (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* able to exercise, albeit mild and slow
* "able" to work full-time (thanks to NOFAP - no intercourse)
* less pressure in my head, less neuro-inflammation
* My eyes look less inflamed
* The deep pain in my muscles is gone
* No more joint pain except in my right knee (gluten)
* Less flu-like feeling, due to improvement of the immune-system?

There are more improvements to list, i will re-evaluate next month and write a more coherent post.
Bye for now.
Thanks, this is very interesting. Stopping with PMO has given me the exact same benefits as you describe. It has calmed down my nervous system, reduced anxiety and random adrenaline rushes, heart palpitations, and as a result from that it has greatly improved my fatigue, sleep and POTS. It has been an absolute game changer for me, and by far the most important measure I’ve taken (others are mostly the same as you describe, I also avoid video games, stimulating movies/series and most social encounters, and do a lot of pacing/resting/meditating to calm my ANS.

Looking forward to your update, as your situation sounds very similar to mine (I’m in a bit of a worse state than you though) !
 

Thinktank

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Thanks, this is very interesting. Stopping with PMO has given me the exact same benefits as you describe. It has calmed down my nervous system, reduced anxiety and random adrenaline rushes, heart palpitations, and as a result from that it has greatly improved my fatigue, sleep and POTS. It has been an absolute game changer for me, and by far the most important measure I’ve taken (others are mostly the same as you describe, I also avoid video games, stimulating movies/series and most social encounters, and do a lot of pacing/resting/meditating to calm my ANS.

Looking forward to your update, as your situation sounds very similar to mine (I’m in a bit of a worse state than you though) !
:thumbsup:
For how long have you been practicing no-PMO? Now that you're mentioning those adrenalnie rushes, that's also been the case for me! I have not had a single adrenaline rush or anxiety attack for a month now. I've never been this calm.
I too avoid video games, i tried CS:GO a few weeks ago to see if it would excite my CNS/ANS and yes, unfortunately i can't handle that yet.

I'm currently enduring a setback caused by a course of clarithhromycin to treat a spreading skin infection (it spread into my lymph system). I knew this was going to happen, my body doesn't agree with antibiotics any longer after having been on them for years to treat a BS diagnosis of "chronic lyme disease". KENNY DE MEIRLEIR THANK YOU FOR THAT! QUACK QUACK QUACKKKKK.

First thing to address is my gutbiome and flareup of IBD. My muscles feel incredibly fatigued, the brain fog has increased and my intestines hurt again but thankfully the dysautonomia/POTS and anxiety is under control. Getting dysautonomia and anxiety under control has been an absolute game changer. I don't know if i could handle it mentally if i would become bedridden again.
The fatigue in the muscles is currently overwhelming so i'm unable to work a full day, but whatever, i lost my job anyway, the company i worked for had to shut down - way to go COVID19.

I will post an update in a month or so, i first need to get the IBD under control.


Edit:
Quitting fish oil has made a big difference in regards to anxiety and dysautonomia. I have used fish oil for years after this lyme quack told me it would lower the PGE2 induced inflammation in my body. I found that my anxiety, restlesness and dysautonomia further improved after i ran out of fish oil. I ordered a new bottle and the anxiety/restlesness, dysautonomia increased.

At work i was recently promoted to a position with lots of responsibility, quite stressful. I was able to handle it much better than expected, this absolutely wouldn't be the case pre-no PMO!
 
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junkcrap50

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Anyone think that the "mold retreats" of camping in the desert for 2 weeks, which some people see benefits from, is actually a mini dopamine fast instead of a mold avoidance? Could the benefits seen be due to upregulating dopamine receptors similar to No PMO?

I think resetting dopamine receptors can actually help a lot of CFS patients who may or may not do PMO.
 

Dufresne

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Anyone think that the "mold retreats" of camping in the desert for 2 weeks, which some people see benefits from, is actually a mini dopamine fast instead of a mold avoidance? Could the benefits seen be due to upregulating dopamine receptors similar to No PMO?

I think resetting dopamine receptors can actually help a lot of CFS patients who may or may not do PMO.
That wouldn't explain how mold avoiders feel worse immediately upon re-exposure.

I'll tell you, though, mold avoidance is absolutely essential to addressing my dopamine issues.

I started the PMO 4 or 5 days ago. Also, I should be caffeine free in a few days. My last vices. Should be interesting.
 

drob31

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That wouldn't explain how mold avoiders feel worse immediately upon re-exposure.

I'll tell you, though, mold avoidance is absolutely essential to addressing my dopamine issues.

I started the PMO 4 or 5 days ago. Also, I should be caffeine free in a few days. My last vices. Should be interesting.
It's funny you mention this because avoiding caffeine, PMO, and resistance training are the 3 things combined that after about 10-14 days make me feel normal.
 

junkcrap50

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That wouldn't explain how mold avoiders feel worse immediately upon re-exposure.

I'll tell you, though, mold avoidance is absolutely essential to addressing my dopamine issues.
I definitely think mold is a issue for CFS patients. But returning from the campsite in the desert and going back home where there is phone, internet, TV, etc. You are returning to a dopamine stimulating environment.

I just threw out the idea because I thought it could be a contributing factor. Could be a factor who mistakenly think they have a moldy environment.
 

HABS93

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I definitely think mold is a issue for CFS patients. But returning from the campsite in the desert and going back home where there is phone, internet, TV, etc. You are returning to a dopamine stimulating environment.

I just threw out the idea because I thought it could be a contributing factor. Could be a factor who mistakenly think they have a moldy environment.
Highly unlikely the dopamine receptors need a break caffiene helps them increase especially while.on a walk. If you can't tolerate the caffiene you need to find out why. Someone who's spent years now researching these nerutransmitters. It's good to take breaks from orgasms . Enough to show you have willpower but unless you're doing cocaine and smoking weed everyday. Your receptors are fine.
Mold exposure would be a completely different topic although could down regulate dopamine but your problem would then be mold not dopamine