NIH intramural research program update

BurnA

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"Collins seems to think its okay to communicate with a few gobsmacked PWME in hopes they can tell a million pissed off PWME how to think."
That's raw emotions doing the talking; understandable in a way perhaps, but needlessly personal and hurtful.

Collins hasn't done anything yet for me to think ill of him - the reverse really - and I might be living in a bunker by now if I were him. But let's hope he understands with absolute clarity where all this hurt and anger is coming from. All patients want is to get better; that's all they've ever wanted, and they sorely don't want to see the NIH foul this one up. The ball is in your court, NIH.

I don't understand why Hillary would say that about Brian.

I think you summed it up very nicely regarding Collins.
The situation is difficult to understand even as a patient when I see so much infighting and slandering of people who are trying to help. God knows how difficult it must be for outsiders to figure out all the emotions.
 

Snow Leopard

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The main thing I see is a new, understaffed program inside a giant bureaucracy making communications mistakes. I don't know why Walitt was chosen - I don't think anyone in the patient community does. If anyone has REAL information from inside NIH, it'd be great to hear it.

I've been asking myself the question "what were they thinking". I think the answer was that they weren't thinking. No one stopped to think about how the involvement of someone like Walitt would be problematic.

Research on CFS & ME still seems to be an afterthought as usual...
 

Nielk

Senior Member
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@viggster
I think it is inappropriate for you to bring one tweet by Hillary Johnson without context and without her ability to Defend her point of view here since she is not a member.

You are actually practicing what you criticize in others. Putting each other down.
 

viggster

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@viggster
I think it is inappropriate for you to bring one tweet by Hillary Johnson without context and without her ability to Defend her point of view here since she is not a member.

You are actually practicing what you criticize in others. Putting each other down.
She has attacked me at least 3 times on Twitter, an open public platform. Each time, I've invited her to talk with me and she has not responded. I don't think mentioning that here breaks any rules of civility.
 

RustyJ

Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
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http://solvecfs.org/NIH-Study?utm_c...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

The Solve ME/CFS Initiative held a phone call with Vicky Whittemore, Ph.D., of the National Institutes of Health yesterday regarding our concerns over staffing of the NIH’s new intramural study on ME/CFS.

Specifically, our organization is concerned about the appointment of Dr. Brian Walitt, who is the Lead Associate Investigator on the study under the leadership of Principal Investigator Dr. Avi Nath. As other advocates have reported, Dr. Walitt has made public comments regarding his belief that ME/CFS and fibromyalgia are psychosomatic. Dr. Whittemore was very receptive to our strong opposition to Dr. Walitt’s participation in the study, but said that she has no role in the study design or staffing; that rests with Dr. Nath.


Solve ME/CFS Initiative President Carol Head will continue to raise the concerns over Dr. Walitt when she meets with NIH officials in D.C. on March 8 along with fellow advocate Mary Dimmock.


I would prefer they raise the issue of the pseudoscience control groups. Without them, the FMD group have far less to work with. Wallit may become a sacrificial lamb, but the control groups and the other bps proponents will remain.

Throughout this, Solve has been reactive, in my mind. They supposedly are tapped in on this, yet they have waited for patient pressure before acting. After their first letter where they vaguely raised problem areas, they backed off, seemingly satisfied with the removal of the Reeves criteria - job well done. Yet most of the problems remain. Now with their second letter they are raising the issue of Wallit, but what about the control groups?
 

Comet

I'm Not Imaginary
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Also, I'm feeling a little defensive because Hillary Johnson has decided to attack me on twitter (without engaging with me), and someone called me an NIH shill. Well, I wonder if a gobsmacked shill would have sent this to the NIH director. (This is most of my letter to him from Feb. 8):

Dear. Dr. Collins,

It has taken me longer than I had planned to get back to you, but I do appreciate the call from you last fall. Thank you for taking an interest in our illness and pushing for positive change at NIH.

However, I am growing concerned that the good will among patients generated by your announcement is slipping away. The NIH's responses to the latest recommendations from the CFS Advisory Committee disappointed many patients, including myself. Nearly every response was dismissive of CFSAC's earnestly thought-out recommendations. These responses have patients worried that positive change is not happening quickly enough.

Here are some ideas about how NIH can continue to build a bridge to the patient community.

- Patient involvement in NIH's research plans is vital. Appointing a patient representative - and possibly an organizational representative as well - to the Trans-NIH Working Group on ME/CFS would be a hugely positive step. [xxx and xxx] would make excellent patient advocates. They are both reasonable, forward-looking people with deep knowledge of ME/CFS research. Zaher Nahle of the Solve ME/CFS Initiative would be a good choice for an organizational representative. The ad hoc meetings Drs. Koroshetz and Whittemore have hosted recently are important, but I think it's much more important to formalize patient and advocate involvement.

- The NIH researchers involved in the new ME/CFS research effort could host an online Town Hall for patients, advocates, clinicians, and researchers. Such an event would show openness and a willingness to consider patient input.

- Patients are waiting to hear about dedicated funding for extramural researchers. The growing cohort of ME/CFS researchers in the US working on biomarkers, cellular and molecular pathology, and potential treatments desperately needs funding. An RFA or some other mechanism dedicating a pot of money would be a very positive step. The NIH response to the CFSAC recommendation of an RFA repeated an unfortunate line that I thought had been debunked: That there are few to zero "good quality" ME/CFS funding applications. With Congress boosting the NIH budget, and with the 10% HIV/AIDS set-aside expiring, now is the perfect time for a dedicated external ME/CFS budget.

- NIH could consider funding ME/CFS Centers of Excellence to bring together clinicians and researchers. There are enough experts in the US for two or three such centers, which have been instrumental in pushing ahead new treatments for other disorders.

- NIH researchers working on ME/CFS could invite outside experts in for a seminar series. I'm sure many of the researchers I've gotten to know would love to share their work with NIH colleagues. Such a seminar series would cost very little but could build a lot of goodwill. I could suggest a list of researchers to invite.

- The clinical protocol posted recently suggests the NIH will be using the outdated Reeves criteria to select patients. These criteria do not include the hallmark symptom of ME/CFS identified by the IOM - post-exertional malaise. Using Reeves criteria will draw in a heterogeneous group of patients, including some who have chronic fatigue - the symptom - but do not have post-exertional malaise and do not have ME. Patients are dismayed that the IOM's work in this area has been ignored. The P2P group by NIH convened also made this important distinction and suggested research criteria must include post-exertional malaise. The NIH team has missed an opportunity here to proactively communicate how and why they are designing the study this way. Channels of communication need to be more open.

Thanks for reading this note. I am happy to discuss any of this with you.

BV

:balloons: @viggster for President! :balloons: Thank you for all you are doing for the ME/CFS community! :balloons:
 

jimells

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The end result of such structures is endless controversy which never gets anywhere near resolution. This guarantees that the next Presidential administration and Congress will find a situation open to any change recommended from the top. The organization itself has not committed to any position, and will not until "the science is there". With this set up the science is unlikely to ever be there.

Which just happens to align with the interests of the Wessely School and their insurance industry, ahem, "patrons". Mighty convenient for them.

I certainly understand institutional inertia, which is exactly why the NIH leadership needs to start leading, or retire so a competent leader can be put in place.
 

jimells

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C) She says it’s possible he’s being punished by having to do the job of clinical investigator

Methinks it is the patients being punished for being uppity and vexatious.

I guess if people want to believe in the worst, they'll believe that NIH had it out for us all along and no new information will counter that.

You are correct - more NIH dissembling will not be convincing. I quit believing the statements of government officials about 45 years ago, while 50,000 body bags were coming back from Vietnam and protesters were beaten and shot. Most of those poor souls were hardly older than I was at the time.

Real actions like the ones outlined in your recent email to Dr Collins would turn off the noise machine. I sure hope he forwards your email to someone on his staff who will follow through.
 

Valentijn

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Also, I'm feeling a little defensive because Hillary Johnson has decided to attack me on twitter (without engaging with me), and someone called me an NIH shill.
There's a couple extremist trolls on either side: criticize the methodology of a bad psych study, and one tiny group will start shouting. Make any attempt to communicate or cooperate with the "establishment", and the other tiny group will start shouting.

Stupid trolls are stupid, and should be ignored. Fortunately there only seems to be a total of 4-5 of them on twitter (though they're good at sounding larger), and none doing that sort of stuff here.

I appreciate your efforts very very (very) much, even when I disagree with one or two of your interpretations.
 

beaker

ME/cfs 1986
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Although I think Walitt should go, I also think that the FMD group and Lyme controls ( mostly the former) should be more of a priority. They set the tone for the study as comparisons. IT gives me a very bad feeling. And the problem to me w/ Walitt is connected to these groups. Maybe I wouldn't worry so much about him ( maybe.... ) if they weren't have FMD as control. It speaks loudly to what they feel we should be compared to. How about an MS control ? or RA ( bc Rituxan) ? But FMD? -which I don't even think exists except in the minds of those who can't find the true reason for those thus labeled dx

I don't know how to begin to address this. It's such a deeper issue. IMO NIH needs to call in some patient reps toot suite and have a talk. Perhaps if we, as a group agree about certain issues, a group letter ? I know petitions being set up at MEAction re Walliit. But do they include the other important issues ?

What happened to the group of patients ( PR had a volunteer) that were going to DC for something I don't remember.
 
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beaker

ME/cfs 1986
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There's a couple extremist trolls on either side: criticize the methodology of a bad psych study, and one tiny group will start shouting. Make any attempt to communicate or cooperate with the "establishment", and the other tiny group will start shouting.

Stupid trolls are stupid, and should be ignored. Fortunately there only seems to be a total of 4-5 of them on twitter (though they're good at sounding larger), and none doing that sort of stuff here.

I appreciate your efforts very very (very) much, even when I disagree with one or two of your interpretations.

They have been attacking @JenB today about taking small salary for Canary.
Felt bad for her. I think she is trying to do things in a way that will go way beyond our community. Go Jen !

But I fear this is going off on a tangent. so back to NIH.........

PS ditto for me on the last sentence by Valentijn
 
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Snow Leopard

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I asked a friend at NIH about what Walitt's role as "clinical lead investigator" means, and my friend said this:

A) It is a VERY bureaucratic role with lots of paperwork and shuttling patients around

B) No one takes his institute (Nat’l Institute for Complementary & Integrative Health) seriously

C) She says it’s possible he’s being punished by having to do the job of clinical investigator

This is absurd.

If no one takes the National Institute for Complementary & Integrative Health seriously, then what does it mean for us that those people are taking a key role in this study?

Likewise, doing this to "punish" someone is absurd as it would harm the study and patients.

Oh thanks. I don't feel like I'm in a difficult position. I just want to figure out how to smooth out communications between the patient community and the people at NIH who can help us.

They can start by asking the community for input on aspects of the study and people involved before making such decisions. It is the unidirectional communcation that is the problem. This is what they have effectively communicated so far: "We have decided to do this, whether you agree on the details or not". "You should be grateful we're doing something rather than nothing." etc. There is no communication as to why Walitt was selected, nor why FMD controls were proposed etc.
 
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anciendaze

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One of my regular hobbyhorses in research has to do with selection effects, even unintended ones like dealing with patients who wouldn't be there if several previous doctors had been able to treat them. In thinking about "Functional Movement Disorders" (FMD) as a cohort I ran into something so absurd I need a new name for the solecism.

A patient with a diagnosis of FMD can have this validated by recovering after therapy which does not change the underlying physiology. (This has to be reconsidered if they were treated with psychotropic drugs with effects on organic disease, like fluoxetine on enterovirus infections.) The result of this is that no patients with validated diagnoses will be in the research cohort for FMD. What about the patients in the cohort? They will be there because the diagnosis is not yet falsified. This leads to serious questions about the vital scientific problem of falsifiability.

This leads to the observation that you will be studying the doctors who made these diagnoses at least as much as the patients.
 

Nielk

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She has attacked me at least 3 times on Twitter, an open public platform. Each time, I've invited her to talk with me and she has not responded. I don't think mentioning that here breaks any rules of civility.

I looked through Hillary's Twitter feed and she never directs anything personally to you @viggster . The comment you mention was a general comment.

Hillary Johnson has spend ten years (at least) investigating and writing about the history of this disease and revealed the political corruption here in the government of the United States. The result;" OSler's Web" is an invaluable time to the community. She has been severely affected with ME now for many years.

To denigrate her name here because she made a generic comment you didn't like, is wrong.
 
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