Niacin Doubt: Inositol Nicotinate vs Nicotinic Acid

[Lotus97]

As for the Niacin, I take it as part of ATP Cofactors (A specially formulated high potency vitamins B-2/B-3 combination, containing 100mg of Riboflavin and 500mg of Niacin (as Inositol hexanicotinate) per tablet). The Niacin (as Inositol hexanicotinate) is a non-flushing derivative of niacin. I am re-thinking my Niacin intake even though doc suggested it as part of Iodine Protocol.

Does any form of Niacin boost ATP or is it only Inositol hexanicotinate?

It is folinic acid. Rich recommended it, along with methylfolate. I take the Thorne Basic B complex twice daily (not #5), and am doing fine with it.

Fredd started a thread last year about how some people can't take folinic acid (calcium folinate) and must take methylfolate only. This might be a very small percentage of people, but I don't know because it's a long thread and I haven't really read much yet:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...afolin-inducing-deficiency-called-ddtox.9160/

I plan on starting with folinic acid though since most people can convert folinic acid into methylfolate. I don't understand why rich has people taking both methylfolate and folinic acid if folinic acid converts to methyfolate.

Since this thread is about different forms of Niacin I thought I should mention that Thorne has another B Complex with extra Niacin (mostly Niacinamide):
http://www.iherb.com/Thorne-Research-B-Complex-3-60-Veggie-Caps/18120

There's also 2 other types of Niacin you can take: nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide and NADH (Reduced B-Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide). I'm not sure what the difference between the two are, but NADH is more expensive so I suppose it's more potent.

 

[AFCFS]

Does any form of Niacin boost ATP or is it only Inositol hexanicotinate?

Not sure. I found this article helpful Niacin: Can It Help Your Cardio Health? and they seem to prefer theInositol hexanicotinate.

What Kind of Niacin and How Much to Take

I prefer the no-flush niacin called inositol hexanicotinate (IHN). This is a slow release form of niacin comprised of six molecules of niacin bound to one molecule of inositol. As it is metabolized niacin levels gradually rise, peaking about 10 hours after ingestion. In Europe this form of niacin is sold as a prescription (Hexopal) and has been extensively tested for safety up to doses of 4,000 mgs per day. There are no reports of liver problems from this form of niacin and it does not cause a flush.

Here is a 20 page paper that looks a little deeper: Inositol hexanicotinate (inositol hexaniacinate) as a source of niacin (vitamin B3) added for nutritional purposes in food supplements.

But there are also article like this: Don't be fooled by no-flush niacin.

So, again, when considering the whole ball of wax, not sure. One doc told me to take the Inositol hexanicotinate, and now another has given me a multi with the niacin as niacinamide (100 mg, 500% daily value), so will stick with that, for now.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Don’t be fooled by no-flush niacin appears to be concerned only about cholesterol levels.

But beware - not all products that have the word "niacin" on their label will actually benefit your cholesterol health.

While inositol hexanicotinate works as other B vitamins work to promote energy metabolism and nervous system health, it has not been shown to have any effect on cholesterol levels.

 

[Lotus97]

I posted this in another thread a few weeks ago, but since the information is more relevant here and the other thread is dead I will post it here rather than simply linking to the other thread. I don't know what the rules are about this. I can delete my old post if necessary.

I was wondering about taking niacin (niacinamide/Inositol Hexanicotinate/nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide/NADH ) in the process of methylation. I take niacin partially for boosting ATP and lowering cholesterol and also because I didn't see any reason not to. These quotes raise some questions however, but I don't really understand what they mean.

First quote is from the bottle of a supplement

When taking niacin, methylating factors such as folic acid, and vitamin B-12, choline and TMG should not be part of one's supplement program to protect the liver. When used in large doses (greater than 599 mg per day) hepatoxicity may occur, especially if preparation is sustained release. Monitor liver function tests.

Second quote is from this site: http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm

Actually excess niacin is metabolized by methylation and thus uses up methyl groups. One source suggests to aim for under 75mg (usually ~50mg) of niacin+niacinamide per day from supplements. If you are taking large quantities of B3, please get your homocysteine and SAM checked to make sure this niacin isn't excessively taxing the methyl metabolism. Likewise some supplements have lots of B6 (e.g. 100mg) and between 20 and 50mg per day of B6, or less, might be better.

If you are an over-methylator, meaning you have extra, then B3 is good because it uses them up, but if you are an under-methylator, meaning deficient, then giving extra B3 is bad because it drains an already poor supply.

 

[adreno]

It means exactly what it says: B3 uses up methyl groups. Whether you want that or not, depends on whether you're under- or overmethylated. If am not certain whether taking active b3 (NAD) would also deplete methyl groups. If not, it would be my preferred option for making ATP.

 

[Lotus97]

It means exactly what it says: B3 uses up methyl groups. Whether you want that or not, depends on whether you're under- or overmethylated. If am not certain whether taking active b3 (NAD) would also deplete methyl groups. If not, it would be my preferred option for making ATP.

How do I know whether I'm an under or overmethylator?

 

[adreno]

How do I know whether I'm an under or overmethylator?

If you have fatigue, depression and especially high histamine levels (allergies etc) you are likely lacking in methyl groups. On the other hand, feeling "hyper", irritable, headache, insomnia and low histamine levels would be symptoms of excess methyl groups. It is not always clear cut, but tests should also be able to provide some answers. Of course, these things can change, depending on the supplements you take and other factors, it's not set one way or the other forever, although there are genetic tendencies. I think most of us are probably undermethylated.

 

[Lotus97]

If you have fatigue, depression and especially high histamine levels (allergies etc) you are likely lacking in methyl groups. On the other hand, feeling "hyper", irritable, headache, insomnia and low histamine levels would be symptoms of excess methyl groups. It is not always clear cut, but tests should also be able to provide some answers. Of course, these things can change, depending on the supplements you take and other factors, it's not set one way or the other forever, although there are genetic tendencies. I think most of us are probably undermethylated.

I do have depression, but I also have insomnia, irritability, and overstimulation. When I don't get enough sleep I seem to be even more wired. I guess that's my body's coping mechanism and I'm assuming it has something partially to do with my adrenals. When I was in high school though I had depression and insomnia, but I was very fatigued especially towards the end.

Taking the active B's seems to make me more stimulated although I've had problems before taking the active B's. I'm not sure whether overdriving the methylation cycle is the same thing as being an overmethylator, but I started taking hydroxocobalamin after having problems with methylcobalamin and methylfolate and reading this on Rich's Revised Simplified Methylation Protocol (August 25, 2012 Revision)

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ation-protocol-august-25-2012-revision.19050/

Use of hydroxocobalamin also keeps the cells in control of the rate of the methylation cycle, preventing it from being overdriven, which slows the rise of glutathione. So I have decided to stay with hydroxocobalamin as the first form of B12 to try.

There seems to be a difference of opinion between Rich and Fredd about use of hydroxocobalamin and overdriving the methylation cycle in general. I found two threads discussing overdriving the methylation cycle and under/overmethylators. I'm not really sure if they're related other than both having the word "over".

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...hylation-and-precursers-laymans-version.1740/

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/over-driving-the-methylation-cycle.17889/

I'm not sure where I fit in with everyone here or exactly what's wrong with me. After a reoccurring rash on the place where I had been bitten by a tick, Lyme seems like more of a possibility and possibly also copper and mercury toxicity from my amalgams (although I did have some depression, anxiety, and insomnia before either of those), but a few years ago I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia partially because I have chronic pain, but I've read a couple symptoms lists of both fibro and CFS and there seems to be a lot of commonality. I've even seen them referred to as the same thing, but I don't do that because I think some people might be offended by that.

 

[dbkita]

Regardless of the fact that B3 quenches methyl donors, B3 has many important roles.

I concur with Adreno that they are better alternatives than niacin itself and that NAD is also important.
I prefer niacinamide personally though some swear by inositol hexonicotinate.

Even if you are undermethylated as most of us on these forums are, you need some B3, what that level is relative
to your methyl donors will vary from person to person. Personally I jumped into the deep end of the pool and overmethylated myself for a long time and niacinamide 500 mg / day was the only things saving me without me knowing it. Now that I have a better balance I can get by fine with a lower dose but more than enough for the other important considerations of B3.