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new organ detected in human body/acupuncture theory discussion

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,857
I added d-ribose to my daily routine a few months back, and could not notice any effects. Then, I read something bad about it, and stopped taking it altogether. And I don't remember what the bad was.

I also got some inulin, a pre-biotic. Have not opened that. Cause I read something bad about it. It feeding the bad guys when its supposed to feed the good guys.
That seems to be the problem with so many of these "studies"....no real consensus on what does and doesn't work. Personally, I'll just sit it out until something more meaningful comes along. I've seem a lot of these "arguments" come and go. Let me know if/when something more meaningful turns up.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,639
Location
Alberta
The meridians used by acupuncture have now been supported by the 'new organ' just discovered. By science.

No, at least I didn't find any support from science. I saw lots of "might"s and "may"s, but nothing supporting the claim that the interstitium in any way creates paths that match the meridians. To me the interstitium looks like simple padding around organs, like a thin layer of urethane foam. It holds some fluid, and can certainly have some medical implications (protects cancer cells or whatever), but it doesn't seem to form transport channels or wiring conduits or whatever meridians are supposed to be. The link between this new 'organ' and acupuncture is simple something that the news media is pushing because it grabs reader's attention much more than 'foam padding'.

One of the hallmarks of scientific pursuits and thinking is open-mindedness, and the formulation of hypotheses to either prove or disprove various belief systems.

Yes, but that also means being open-minded about hypotheses that are tested and fail. Acupuncture has been tested repeatedly, and as far as I can find, it's failed those tests. Proper science would accept the failures, write the theory off, and move on to something else. Rejecting the results of proper testing is not science.

I did a quick check for 'acupuncture new organ' and the first two hits both stated that there's no evidence that acupuncture works, at least not the way the proponents claim it works. Read: https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/science-and-pseudoscience-of-the-interstitium/

"Acupuncture is particularly prone to bias because of its cultural significance. In fact a review found that essentially 100% of acupuncture studies from China are positive. Let that sink in – that is not possible without bias, even with a treatment that actually works. The fact that Chinese acupuncture studies are 100% positive means that they are 100% unreliable, and yet they contaminate the acupuncture literature still, including the systematic reviews I linked to above."

My experience is that acupuncture can do something other than via the placebo effect (by stimulating endorphins or whatever), but not by 'redirecting energies' or whatever the usual explanation is for acupuncture.

It seems you must have had some type of very negative experience...sorry about that.

No, I can't remember any particular negative experience about acupuncture. I just hate scams and scammers.

Your example of a TCM herb being proven scientifically as a diabetes treatment fits what I said: that TCM practitioners did observe things that work, but it doesn't prove that they chose bitter gourd correctly based on four humours, or yin/yang. I wouldn't be surprised if it was initially tried because the gourd had a physical resemblance to a human organ, or because of a fairy tale featuring a gourd. It was simply observed to work for certain complaints regardless of whatever the theories said.

I was going to say that I was surprised that I hadn't heard any claims using dark matter to explain acupuncture, but a quick check showed that it has been proposed already. If science discovers anything new that remains even partially mysterious, I expect acupuncture proponents will try to use it to justify their theories, since it's something that can't be scientifically tested and proven false at present.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,182
No, at least I didn't find any support from science. I saw lots of "might"s and "may"s, but nothing supporting the claim that the interstitium in any way creates paths that match the meridians.

The research study does not address meridians or acupuncture. I was addressing that as part of what I was looking into. And I used May and Maybes.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,182
The link between this new 'organ' and acupuncture is simple something that the news media is pushing because it grabs reader's attention much more than 'foam padding'.

I never saw any news media about it or pushing anything.

The acupuncture research of interest to me is happening in Korea.

To reduce complex body systems to: foam padding...well, OK whatever.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,182
If science discovers anything new that remains even partially mysterious, I expect acupuncture proponents will try to use it to justify their theories, since it's something that can't be scientifically tested and proven false at present.

I editted the title of the thread so its clear this includes a discussion of acupuncture theory. If anyone cares to participate.

I should point out to you that Medicare covers acupuncture treatments, my insurance covers a certain number of them, acupuncture is used extensively in major medical centers, that many medical centers include integrative medicine and include access to some of this.

And just like western medicine, it sure matters what Practitioner you are seeing.
 

wabi-sabi

Senior Member
Messages
1,447
Location
small town midwest
To me the interstitium looks like simple padding around organs, like a thin layer of urethane foam. It holds some fluid,
Yes, and the article I posted a while back suggested (to my mind) that perhaps this isn't a new organ exactly, but just the first time we've seen that organ in a living body when it is fluid filled and squishy as opposed to being fixed to a slide. It looks a bit different in real life, is all.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,182
e first time we've seen that organ in a living body when it is fluid filled and squishy as opposed to being fixed to a slide. It looks a bit different in real life, is all.

Some things just have physicalities that require special consideration.

I studied aquatic organisms which were being damaged every time they were sampled. When they were observed finally- in situ (in their real place)...they have gorgeous membranes and complex structures that are damaged or simply missing....when they are retrieved from some net.

So in this case...yes they did not realize the tissue contained fluid !

And probably another debate will ensue- is it Tissue? What is tissue? What is Pluto?
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,182
What organisms were those? What did you study?

I studied planktonic organisms in freshwater lakes. Since an ocean wasnt handy. Algae and Zooplankton. Macroplankton and microplankton. (bigger stuff you could see with the naked eye, and the most tiny stuff requiring 1000 magnification.). There is this cool predatory zooplankton that is, oh visible, but just a few millimeters long and looks like a swimming dragon...right out of the Dragon Movies.

In oceans, they discovered many creatures were being damaged from the sampling nets...and we didnt know they produced...long tendrils and membranes and feeding structures etc. Many things we still: barely begin to know whats truely going on there.
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,857
I spend a lot of time wondering about things like you're just describing...if one can't stay outward thinking, then you'd better go inward....after all, what choice does one have? Since i'm such a huge reader, I always have a question handy. I know I drive poor Rod crazy, he's the exact opposite, but we manage it all well. What can i say? Within my limitations, I'm a happy person and hope to stay this way. So yes, I also wonder about what's beneath the ocean, why haven't we explored it before now, and as to the question about climate change, I firmely believe something is going on and the least we can/could do is to ban plastics. What's such a hardship about that? I was appalled at the use of plastics in the hospitals of today, and can't believe there's not a better way of handling such wanton abuse. Well, that's just me, but that really does bother me. Take life easy, please. Yours Lenora.