new organ detected in human body/acupuncture theory discussion

[Rufous McKinney]

One of the hallmarks of scientific pursuits and thinking is open-mindedness,

At one highly regarded University near me, UC Irvine- one can enjoy Integrated Medicine. THey cite WHO.

and here is what the World Health Organization has included as treatable...and Yes they have controversially included traditoinal chinese medicine...and that lead then to: Extinction of the Rhinoceras. Which is ENTIRELY NOT WHAT I am talking about.

After reviewing decades of clinical studies, the World Health Organization (WHO) listed the following diseases, symptoms and conditions for which acupuncture has been proven, through controlled trials, to be an effective or promising treatment:

• Adverse reactions to radiotherapy and/or chemotherapy
• Allergic rhinitis (including hay fever)
• Biliary colic
• Depression (including depressive neurosis and depression following stroke)
• Dysentery, acute bacillary
• Dysmenorrhoea, primary
• Epigastralgia, acute (in peptic ulcer, acute and chronic gastritis, and gastrospasm)
• Facial pain (including craniomandibular disorders)
• Headache
• Hypertension, essential
• Hypotension, primary
• Knee pain
• Labor induction
• Leukopenia
• Low back pain
• Malposition of fetus, correction of
• Morning sickness
• Nausea and vomiting
• Neck pain
• Pain in dentistry (including dental pain and temporomandibular dysfunction)
• Periarthritis of shoulder
• Postoperative pain
• Renal colic
• Rheumatoid arthritis
• Sciatica
• Sprain
• Stroke
• Tennis elbow

Source: 1998 WHO report, Acupuncture: Review and Analysis of Reports on Controlled Clinical Trials.

BTW from personal experience: NOBODY will treat the morning sickness. I get treated for numerous things not on this list. Like the horrible rash. The gastroperesis. IBS-d. I could keep going.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

The meridians used by acupuncture have now been supported by the 'new organ' just discovered. By science. Give it a look, it's interesting information, and challenges a lot of the arguments against acupuncture and statements like its use of "....magical ebergies...".

Here is some more fascinating stuff- about how the needle is- chatting with that connective tissue- which is capable of transmitting the signal- thruout the body. So there is mechanical signalling and then its somehow further signalling - possibly involving calcium waves.

17. Langevin H, et al. Mechanical signaling through connective tissue: a mechanism for the therapeutic effect of acupuncture. FASEB J. 2001;15:2275–2282. doi: 10.1096/fj.01-0015hyp. [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar]
18. Langevin H, et al. Tissue displacements during acupuncture using ultrasound elastography techniques. Ultrasound Med Biol. 2004;30:1173–1183. doi: 10.1016/j.ultrasmedbio.2004.07.010. [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3192271/#CR17

"A crucial difference between the present and past interpretations is to examine acupuncture as a mechanical activation and signaling process. With this change, it appears all the ancient Chinese concepts can be re-interpreted and harmonized with the latest finding in medical imaging, cell biology and physiology. In short, we do not have to throw away the 2,500 years clinical ideas while preserving modern judgment based on scientific method and technology."

 

[wabi-sabi]

Hmm, this is interesting. But if accupuncture is working (potentially) through mechanical signalling, what are we to think of chi? Is chi just mechanical signalling? Or do we not need chi as an explanatory concept at all nd can desrcibe it completely as connective tissue or calcium waves?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

But if accupuncture is working (potentially) through mechanical signalling, what are we to think of chi? Is chi just mechanical signalling?

I'm only allowed to BRIEFLY contemplate this today! (mental management).

the initial needle insertion is viewed as mechanical. But then its triggering signalling ...that does not continue to be mechanical.

Qi requires further contemplation..for me...at the moment!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Rufous McKinney
Qi is energy, and would potentially travel through the same channel system as acupuncture meridians, no?

There are a couple of thousand acupuncture points throughout the body, all of which are connected through a dozen or so meridians, and qi flows through each of those meridians in specific directions.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Or do we not need chi as an explanatory concept at all nd can desrcibe it completely as connective tissue or calcium waves?

I think that someday we will be able to measure, or otherwise observe and document- vital force. But for now, we probably still have not pinned down Qi.

I'm convinced its real and part of the land of physics. But until thats been shown we shall see.

I don't think the Qi concept is required to explain-some of these results and effects of chinese traditional medicine. Whatever happened- insertion of needles into the correct specific location can lead to changes in the body, corrections can be made and one can feel much better.

We know acupuncture is triggering endorphine release...thats all known and involving calcium channels. Thats why its so effective for pain management and used- extensively that way. But gosh, that day that two electrodes placed on two points- cleared out a conjuctivitis situation the likes of which I'd never seen- well I just could not believe it. 20 minutes later its entirely gone. All of it, the goop, the red, and inflammed. just gone.

Ok, i'm convinced. It helped- to experience actual healing. You become pretty grateful.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Is chi just mechanical signalling?

Is ATP? Or once it's signaled, does it become something else in the mitochondria .... like energy.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

like energy.

Its some kind of "energy"...that can do work. It can- send a body 8 feet across the room but nobody touched that body (I have personally seen this occur, the Tai Chi Master I studied with and its not a scam at all).

It can- be sent down the spine and correct illnesses there (qi is for healing).

I have, occassionally, felt it. Its something vital, physical and energetic and it can be experienced. for me, it was very brief.

 

[wabi-sabi]

Well, ATP is the form of energy that mitochondria make. When the body needs that energy released it snaps the last P off the ATP and then energy is released. But that's shown in the texts as a little lightening bolt appearing next to the ADP and the extra P.

So what is that little lightening bolt? Yeah, yeah I know it's chemical energy released from a chemical bond, but what does that mean? I'm not a physicist.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I'm not a physicist.

An electron was released. Electron is the energy.

right? the released electron can the go off and interact with something else.

Did I pass physics (barely) (too much math, not enough concept)

no- the bond breaking is the energy.

its described as a chemical energy- when the bond is broken...releasing the electron.

I think I am spending Saturday evening deciding I don't know what energy is. Which seems somehow ironic.

 

[wabi-sabi]

I think I am spending Saturday evening deciding I don't know what energy is. Which seems somehow ironic.

Me too, and I understand biology at least, if not physics. We use the word "energy" to mean so many different things: emotions, the Tai Chi master pushing you, the gas in your car, the chocolate cookies I love, etc... If we don't sort out the different meanings from one another we end up with a lot of confusion. HOw t start to understand what you can't even define?

Given all that, my jury is still out on what chi is. Still working on the ATP...

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Energy remains: officially confusing as we have thermal, heat, chemical etc.

But this is at least- well thats interesting...see video. one must be able to- direct one's vital force- to achieve the effect viewed here. I am taking it at face value, as I did not see the video made. Looks hard to fake.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Still working on the ATP...

When the electron comes off, chemical energy is released.

I got that far!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

chemical energy is released.

that was stored in the bond.

 

[wabi-sabi]

Looks hard to fake.

The hairdryer heats up the air in the bowl enough to create air currents that turn the paper. My grandmother had a candle holder/ornament that did the same thing.

 

[lenora]

The hairdryer heats up the air in the bowl enough to create air currents that turn the paper. My grandmother had a candle holder/ornament that did the same thing.

Has anyone actually tried D-Ribose to see if it, in itself, makes any difference? I've been playing with vitamins for yrs., am convinced they do something, but am also convinced they can poison the body if taken in the wrong amounts. Since ribose is known to be an energy converter, I'd be interested in hearing anyone else's thoughts. Yours, Lenora

 

[Rufous McKinney]

The hairdryer heats up the air in the bowl enough to create air currents that turn the paper.

but that current would not last that long? his hands stay there for a long time....

I don't know- what was the point of the blow dryer. That is certainly possible.

And thats ok. I don't need some online video to prove anything, it was just convenient and fun to watch.

Wonder if I can try this at home. Unable to direct my Qi, if it spins...then I 'll know its not from me!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Has anyone actually tried D-Ribose to see if it, in itself, makes any difference?

I added d-ribose to my daily routine a few months back, and could not notice any effects. Then, I read something bad about it, and stopped taking it altogether. And I don't remember what the bad was.

I also got some inulin, a pre-biotic. Have not opened that. Cause I read something bad about it. It feeding the bad guys when its supposed to feed the good guys.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

My grandmother had a candle holder/ornament that did the same thing.

You mean the Swedish little candy spinny thingy? We had one of those for years too.

I don't have a clear bowl. Think I'll go get one at the thrift store and see if I can generate the blow dryer effect.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

The hairdryer heats up the air in the bowl enough to create air currents that turn the paper.

I think your probably right.....yet when I watched it again- well... I notice these things...

the bowl is plastic not glass (does not retain any heat)....

what is the purpose of the blow drier....I initially thought it was something about sealing the base of the bowl...which it wouldn't do but thats how I interpreted that moment. Then the video is stopped. And resumes..the blow drier is now done.

the paper isn't spinning yet.

then it gradually starts.Seems like if its the heat from the blow drier it would start spinning sooner.

could his hands give off enough heat to generate this- spinning? Somehow that seems unlikely.

I'm going to look for a bowl in a thrift store to see if I can- spin the paper. Why not.