My start to healing and how Tendonitis/Tendonosis/Bursitis/Gout can overlap and mimic each other

[Paralee]

@Gondwanaland , thanks for the b/c update. I had been thinking of trying it. I wonder if the ACV does the same damage......I'm getting afraid to take anything.
I just read some symptoms that read me like a book saying it meant I was low in B1 and B7. I'm probably having trouble with all of the B's......except the insufferable B6, of course.

Edit: And I was about to start taking a little boron too!

 

[dannybex]

I found capsaicin very helpful to avoid increasing arachidonic levels + excess uric acid production from eating meat (my probelm with AA was triggered after stopping Evening Primrose Oil which was a huge mistake to start taking in the 1st place). I have been finding Bromelain very helpful for joint pain (incl. shoulder & hip bursitis). Rutin and parsely do miracles as well. And estrogen replacement therapy saved my kidneys! Fish oil is very helpful too.

Why was EPO a 'huge mistake' for you in the first place?

Also, that's great that bromelain helped you. Suggests you don't have an issue w/salicylates, you lucky duck.

 

[dannybex]

I should clarify. Bioavailble Silica will help the body produce more collagen. Good for hair, skin and nails. It is the critical element in building fracture proof high quality bone. Bone is a combination of MCHA calcium and collagen. For bursitis, focus on the HA.

@prioris, you missed @Gondwanaland's mention that she can't handle the HA due to it's glycine and proline content. Both increase pain for those with oxalate issues.

I had no idea that HA contained glycine/proline but apparently it does -- although in very tiny levels by weight -- less then 0.35 percent. (Thanks @Gondwanaland).

I started it last summer/fall and it seemed to help, and also started large doses of chondroitin sulfate (which 'attracts' glycine), and perhaps overdid it as I've been having increasing shoulder tendonitis during the last six months or so that comes and goes, but has been staying more than leaving lately. So will stop both for now and see what happens.

Of course so many things can cause tendonitis, fibro, bone and/joint pain, so it's important to get testing whenever possible. There's a possible gut/gallbladder/liver connection too, at least according to Dr. Andrew Rostenberg. who may not be right, but I'm going w/his 'gut' for now, as he helped me big time slow down my muscle wasting by recommending niacin a little more than a year ago.

And then there may be a salicylate problem. Take a look at this woman's case, spinal stenosis, all because she decided to eat some honey after 20+ years of a low salicylate diet.

http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2012/01/31/salicylate-toxicity-and-the-havoc-it-wreaks/

Also salicylates may lower folate, affecting methylation, etc., at least temporarily.

Ironically, glycine helps detox sals, but so does sulfates and other things.

And then there's the hypothesis espoused by traditional chinese medicine (and also ayurvedic medicine) that different tastes have different affects on the body. For example TCM says that 'too much sour' is bad for tendons. Not sure if that's scientifically validated, but I have found in the past if I eat more 'sour' foods, my tendonitis gets worse. It could be due to other things of course...definitely a controversial concept.

Don't mean to suggest that we need to avoid this and that and...end up with nothing to eat. That's not good either. Just saying that these aches and pains may -- may -- be due to several different reasons. And we haven't even talked about infectious causes.

Anyway, FWIW...

 

[Gondwanaland]

Why was EPO a 'huge mistake' for you in the first place?

Also, that's great that bromelain helped you. Suggests you don't have an issue w/salicylates, you lucky duck.

If I forget, please remind me to answer about EPO later (no time now)

I tolerated bromelain for about a month in the range of 10-20mg. When I upped it to 50mg all the hell broke loose and I even had an endoscopy looking for a perforated ulcer but found only a mild gastritis (I had been vomiting). DO you know anything about a drilling pain in the back (right trapezius muscle?) at the liver /gall bladder high?

Taking B6 used to relieve the pain, but lately it only made it worse.

And then there may be a salicylate problem. Take a look at this woman's case, spinal stenosis, all because she decided to eat some honey after 20+ years of a low salicylate diet.

http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2012/01/31/salicylate-toxicity-and-the-havoc-it-wreaks/

I need to read that because there is something strange in the spine X-ray I just took (will show it to the dr today).

 

[Gondwanaland]

BTW I think these weird food intolerances are secondary to something bigger going on such as glycation or ROS. IME suppressing glycation was miraculous, unfortunately it created a ton of deficiencies in all vitamins and hormones (measured in blood tests), looking like my body was making good use of them, but I couldn't produce them enough or get them via food / sun either. I will have to bite the bullet and try iodine with anti-glycation supplement.

 

[prioris]

Oxalate is produced by the body even without oxalate consumption. I do now think that vitamin C pulls oxalate out of the body into the urine increasing the chances for stones. I drink water with lemon juice in it to prevent stone formation until I can heal my kidney.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472830/

I wonder if some oxalate has accumulated in body that needs to be cleaned out. Or maybe the liver which creates them is making excessive amount for some reason or maybe it is derived from kidney problem. When I heal my kidney I will see, All my kidney labs are normal range just need to get BUN better because it's too high i think. I am thinking of taking vitamin C as an experiment to dislodge the oxalate and chanca piedra or lemon juice to prevent stone formation to cleanse it. Just an idea I am thinking about.

as far as pain in right trapezius, the most likely cause is muscle or bone.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Why was EPO a 'huge mistake' for you in the first place?

I will try to remember why... I never understood it properly...

EPO is a source of GLA and (just like CLA from chia seeds) uses B6 to convert it to arachidonic acid, which forms prostaglandins. I think that taking EPO depleted me of B6 and at the same time left me with an excess of inflammatory protaglandins. I took it for almost 4 weeks and when I stopped I had a gout crisis. I measured uric acid one month later and it was still elevated at 6.2 (2.4 - 5.7 mg/dL).

Many women take it to balance estrogen dominance, I think precisely because it activates that specific B6 pathway it tends to favor progesterone while breaking down estrogen more quickly. Healthy women can turn progesterone into estrogen as the body needs, but I seem to have a block precisely there (B3 deficiency?)

The fact is that after taking EPO my estrogen levels got so low that I just couldn't get rid of uric acid and starting estrogen replacement saved me from the horrors of the gout crisis.

Not to mention the salicylates in these oils ...

ETA -- EPO is also take to improve skin (i.e. insulin resistance) but it made my skin awful and obviously worsened glucose metabolism considering the uric acid build up.

 

[dannybex]

BTW I think these weird food intolerances are secondary to something bigger going on such as glycation or ROS. IME suppressing glycation was miraculous, unfortunately it created a ton of deficiencies in all vitamins and hormones (measured in blood tests), looking like my body was making good use of them, but I couldn't produce them enough or get them via food / sun either. I will have to bite the bullet and try iodine with anti-glycation supplement.

Could be. There's also the gut hypothesis, and the gut/gallbladder/liver one I mentioned above.

Then there's the woman who you may be familiar with, whose food intolerances went away when she started thyroid meds. She spent 20 years misdiagnosed w/ME/CFS and six years blogging about salicylates, methylation, oxalates, and on and on and on...

You can click on her many posts from years past, but here's her last one:

https://autoimmunethyroid.wordpress.com/2010/09/

 

[dannybex]

@prioris Vitamin C forms oxalates if it's taken in high doses. I think Susan Owens recommends less than 150mg a day -- can't remember -- but maybe others will chime in.

 

[prioris]

@prioris Vitamin C forms oxalates if it's taken in high doses. I think Susan Owens recommends less than 150mg a day -- can't remember -- but maybe others will chime in.

Many people can process high doses of vitamin C without problem so something has to be broken in the body in terms of oxalates and stone formation. Another anomaly is that the estimate that only 20% of oxalates from urine come from food and that food does impact stone formation greatly.

 

[Gondwanaland]

There's also the gut hypothesis, and the gut/gallbladder/liver one I mentioned above.

One doesn't exclude the other, on the contrary. If you have gut disturbances the other will be present (ROS, glycation, poor glucose control etc).

 

[dannybex]

Many people can process high doses of vitamin C without problem so something has to be broken in the body in terms of oxalates and stone formation. Another anomaly is that the estimate that only 20% of oxalates from urine come from food and that food does impact stone formation greatly.

My point I guess was that vitamin C doesn't help lower oxalate levels. It, in people prone to stones/oxalosis, helps increase oxalate levels. And yes, then the body tries to get rid of them in the urine.

And yes, there are of course other factors involved in both exogenous and endogenous oxalate production.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Then there's the woman who you may be familiar with, whose food intolerances went away when she started thyroid meds. She spent 20 years misdiagnosed w/ME/CFS and six years blogging about salicylates, methylation, oxalates, and on and on and on...

You can click on her many posts from years past, but here's her last one:

https://autoimmunethyroid.wordpress.com/2010/09/