My fatigue is gone. My poisoned feeling, gone. PEM, what PEM?

[xebex]

@seamyb nice Research thanks!

circumin made me feel worse and quercetin reduces my mild histaminnissues but did nothing else, cumin def does a lot more. Luteolin sounds promising, I know of someone who had some improvement with it. Im tempted to try that.

 

[Aidan Walsh]

Ok, so it's still very early days.

But thanks to a post from @Wishful about cumin (and a bit of effort to get over the thought "cumin will not impact my multi-system, chronic and debilitating illness"), I have discovered that cumin has had a huge impact on my multi-system, chronic and debilitating illness.

If you have seen Wishful's post and didn't fight that feeling of disbelief, I strongly urge you to give it a go. I'm now of the mind that I've had some kind of chronic infection, either mycotoxins, bacterial or something. Cumin (and some other spices actually) has been shown to kill these microbial agents.

Wishful only claimed that it blocked PEM. For me, it has increased energy and blocked PEM, although perhaps I was in a constant state of PEM? It's possible because I don't pace good.

I feel very good all day. Normally I feel very ill - I had been mild but was slowly descending down through moderate recently. Now I'm either in remission or super mild.

Wishful noted that the effect has continued for years. They said that they needed to take it every 3 days. I seem to notice the effect wear off the next day. But I'm only about 5 days into this - 5 days of relief being huge for me.

I want this tried en masse and the science discussed. I am not a cumin salesman and have no stakes in the Indian economy.

What brand did you buy is it Organic the Cumin & something in a bottle online? Any links are grateful
thank you

 

[xebex]

@Aidan Walsh just normal cumin from the spice rack ina grocery store. Organic would be best but not necessary

 

[seamyb]

What brand did you buy is it Organic the Cumin & something in a bottle online? Any links are grateful
thank you

In this case your concerns for type, brand and quality are not needed. I used tesco ground cumin which had been sitting in my cupboard for probably over a year in a non-airtight jar. I've used that up and bought another random ground cumin and it works just the same.

@xebex and actually the iron-chelating effect of Luteolin mightn't be so bad... if you're only risk and potential health issue is iron, which the doctors can test for readily, you're laughing. It's an improvement from having nothing to test for.

 

[seamyb]

Also, I read a paper on Luteolin which said that the optimal dose in rats was 50mg/kg. With a half life of 4-5 hours, you'd probably need at least one dose in the morning and one in the evening. That's nearly 7 grams a day. Might get expensive.

 

[ljimbo423]

Also, I read a paper on Luteolin which said that the optimal dose in rats was 50mg/kg. With a half life of 4-5 hours, you'd probably need at least one dose in the morning and one in the evening. That's nearly 7 grams a day.

There's a conversion from rat dosage of mg/kg to human dose. It needs to be divided by 6.2, which would be about 8 mg/kg for people or about 545 mg for a 150 pound person. Times 2 doses a day would be 1090 mg per day. If my math is right.

Edit- I just priced Luteolin. Even at 1090 mg a day, that would be pretty expensive.

 

[Aidan Walsh]

@Aidan Walsh just normal cumin from the spice rack ina grocery store. Organic would be best but not necessary

ok thanks, I meant to ask you I saw black one & yellow cumin organic & how much a day? There were 250 gram & 500 gram bags in powder

 

[seamyb]

apigenin half life 91.8 hours

 

[seamyb]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5566007/

apigenin dose in rats for anti-inflammatory effects in colitis maxed out at 5mg/kg. Applying Jimbo's conversion and assuming 60kg (which my skinny ass is), this gives a dose around 50mg, give or take.

I've sourced 90 tabs of apigenin at 50mg for about 15 quid. With a half life of 91 hours, I think we have a winner.
Until it does absolutely nothing

 

[seamyb]

I have some capsules containing:

• Quercetin Dihydrate - 400mg
• Olive Leaf Extract (10% Oleuropein) - 500mg
• Bioperine - 10mg

and it seems to have brought me back up when coming down from a dose of cumin. I'll need to repeat this, but I was getting sick feeling and now I'm fine again. And I began feeling fine when I expected this to be starting to build up in the blood.

Can anyone explain this quote on the half life of quercetin:

elimination is quite slow, with a reported half-life ranging from 11 to 28 h. The average terminal half-life of quercetin is 3.5 h .

Is there a difference between half-life and terminal half-life? Because if the range of something is 11-28, the average cannot be 3.5.

 

[ljimbo423]

Can anyone explain this quote on the half life of quercetin:

elimination is quite slow, with a reported half-life ranging from 11 to 28 h. The average terminal half-life of quercetin is 3.5 h .

I found this on PubMed-

Abstract

Terminal plasma half-life is the time required to divide the plasma concentration by two after reaching pseudo-equilibrium, and not the time required to eliminate half the administered dose.

When the process of absorption is not a limiting factor, half-life is a hybrid parameter controlled by plasma clearance and extent of distribution. In contrast, when the process of absorption is a limiting factor, the terminal half-life reflects rate and extent of absorption and not the elimination process (flip-flop pharmacokinetics).

The terminal half-life is especially relevant to multiple dosing regimens, because it controls the degree of drug accumulation, concentration fluctuations and the time taken to reach equilibrium.

Link

 

[Judee]

Cumin is still working, but its (cumenaldehyde's) half life is 45 minutes and this, I think, is apparent in its effect. I take like 5 or 6 capsules and have to do this 3 times a day to hide my illness.

I wonder if you could use the essential oil instead and then instead of ingesting it, use it with a carrier oil on your skin. Maybe that would have more of a time-released effect???

 

[ljimbo423]

I wonder if you could use the essential oil instead and then instead of ingesting it, use it with a carrier oil on your skin. Maybe that would have more of a time-released effect???

That's sounds like a reasonable suggestion, with one possible side effect. Smelling like a taco.

 

[seamyb]

I wonder if you could use the essential oil instead and then instead of ingesting it, use it with a carrier oil on your skin. Maybe that would have more of a time-released effect???

I was thinking along those lines myself. Think I'm gonna go down the new chemicals route. If I find a few things that have this same effect, I might be able to narrow down which property is having the effect.

Smelling like a taco.

And a very fine point to consider. Although, I'd trade my CFS for smelling like a bin, never mind a taco.

 

[ljimbo423]

And a very fine point to consider. Although, I'd trade my CFS for smelling like a bin, never mind a taco.

A fair trade for sure.

 

[seamyb]

@ljimbo423 I just did a search for oleuropein (in olive leaf extract) and you said you'd been taking it.

Anything to report? You said you're a lot better now than you were, is there any chance this has played a part?

 

[Wishful]

I've sourced 90 tabs of apigenin at 50mg for about 15 quid.

Apigenin reduced my brainfog slightly. Not greatly, but enough that I bought more. However, after a month or more, it stopped working.

I also tried luteolin: no effect.

 

[seamyb]

Apigenin reduced my brainfog slightly. Not greatly, but enough that I bought more. However, after a month or more, it stopped working.

I also tried luteolin: no effect.

Are you just me in the future?

Ever give quercetin or olive leaf extract a go?

I seem to be benefiting from these immunomodulating substances. But it's really hit and hope with a system which is ridiculously complex. Even if I do find inhibiters for things I have too much of, who knows what the other effects will be. And I can't see it hitting the root cause of my issues.

 

[ljimbo423]

@ljimbo423 I just did a search for oleuropein (in olive leaf extract) and you said you'd been taking it.

Anything to report? You said you're a lot better now than you were, is there any chance this has played a part?

It might have played a small part in my improvement but I haven't been taking a very high dose. I took 2- 750 mg caps a day for a year or 2 and now take only 1- 1/2 caps a day.

 

[seamyb]

So I took the quercetin and olive leaf capsule last night and noticed an uptick in energy.

However, I was plagued with the worst air hunger I've had in a while and bad chest pain and other pain. Not keen to retry.

I get air hunger off everything that improves my fatigue. Given that I now believe this is because of suppression of cytokines and the immune system, does this indicate that a virus or some other infection is being held at bay by my overactive immune system? And when I dampen it, it's allowed to run riot? When I get the air hunger, I also have like a deep popping noise in my sinuses. It's such a strange pop and only there when the air hunger comes on.