My experience on plasmalogens

[Murph]

In this thread that people apparently still (!) aren't reading....

Bayesian Statistics Improves Biological Interpretability of Metabolomics Data from Human Cohorts (Brydges, Che, Lipkin, Fiehn 2023)​

...I shared a study from some scientists from Monash University that is what made me think shark liver oil is a good idea.
(It's a byproduct of small dogfish sharks caught for meat so you don't have to feel bad about taking it.)


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34146594/

J Lipid Res. 2021; 62: 100092.
Published online 2021 Jun 17. doi: 10.1016/j.jlr.2021.100092
PMCID: PMC8281607
PMID: 34146594

Shark liver oil supplementation enriches endogenous plasmalogens and reduces markers of dyslipidemia and inflammation​

Sudip Paul,1,2 Adam Alexander T. Smith,1 Kevin Culham,1 Kevin A. Gunawan,1 Jacqueline M. Weir,1 Michelle A. Cinel,1 Kaushala S. Jayawardana,1 Natalie A. Mellett,1 Man K.S. Lee,3 Andrew J. Murphy,2,3 Graeme I. Lancaster,2,3 Paul J. Nestel,1 Bronwyn A. Kingwell,4 and Peter J. Meikle1,2,∗

Here, we also observed a significant decrease in hsCRP after SLO supplementation. CRP is regarded as prothrombotic and proatherogenic in nature and is commonly used as a marker of systemic inflammation (46). Similar reductions in hsCRP levels in old-aged surgical patients with SLO supplementation have also been reported (28). Another study observed reduced serum complement (C3 and C4) and plasma vascular endothelial growth factor levels with SLO supplementation in obese individuals (45). Altogether, supplementation of SLO seems to have a role in modifying systemic inflammation in humans and could be effective in reducing the risk of progression of metabolic diseases to more advanced forms.

 

[Methyl90]

Why not use shark liver oil with MSM or DMSO topically to aid penetration everywhere up to the peroxisomes? or oral with MSM. If I remember correctly, the Idealabs company produces isolated fatty acid products with the aim of saturating cardiolipin... it seems to me that they have synthesized C15. Do you know him?

 

[Hoosierfans]

Hey all -- revisiting this thread b/c I'm thinking of trying plasmalogens (or precursor alkylglycerols). Here's what I found in terms of options and would love folks to weigh in:

1. ProDrome Glia: contains one type of alkyglycerols but I can't find info on how much / capsule. Offered as an Omega 9 that "helps glial cell growth". $99 for 60 capsules of 450 mg of "Glial Plasmalogen oil". Loading dose is 4-8 caps / day so at the low end, a $99 bottle lasts you 15 days.

2. ProDrome Neuro: contains one type of alkglycerols plus clove oil. Again, no info on how much alkyglycerols per 450 mg capsule. Offered as an Omega 3 that "helps neuron growth". $199 for 60 capsules of 450 mg of "Neuro Plasmalogen Oil." Loading dose is 4-8 caps / day so at the low end, a $199 bottle lasts you 15 days.

3. Shark Liver Oil by Scandinavian Formulas: Capsules are 500 mg, which contain 100 mg of mixed alkyglycerols (based on the above links / studies). Available at Vitacost.com for ~$30 for 120 capsules. Recommended dose is 1-2 gelcaps, 2-3 x day...HOWEVER, based on the study posted above by @Murph , you would want to take 2,000 mg BID (4 caps 2 x day). The $30 bottle will last you 15 days (I'm sensing a theme here ).

4. Shark Liver oil product "Alkyrol": The product used in the study posted above by Murph. Looks very similar to the Scandinavian Formulas product: 500 mg capsules, which contain 100 mg of mixed alkyglycerols. 120 capsules per package. Available at Naturitas.us ($72) or Eurohealthproject.com (49 British pounds). The $72 bottle will last you 15 days using the study dosing of 2,000 mg BID (4 caps 2 x day).

Would love to hear folks opinions on the above products and which might be the one to jump in with, and at what dosage. I'm not sure, for example, if the 2000 mg BID is completely necessary or we could get away with less. I'd be using it for chronic burning pain I have, to lower my VEG-F, and the neuro symptoms I have (brain fog, memory loss, dizziness). @ChrisD @TracyD @junkcrap50 @Wayne and Murph -- would love your thoughts.

 

[ChrisD]

Just a quick report back FWIW, I am getting the same positive effects from Shark Liver Oil as from ProdromeGlia.

Those being a marginal improvement of a few % including sense of brain returning to normal and sense of self coming back, i.e. More clarity and better mood. Hence then slightly better sleep and a bit more energy.

Only down side is that SLO obviously contains some Omega3 and a few years back I finally worked out after supplementing Omega3 from 2015-2017, that actually Omega 3 is no good for me because of Pyroluria (yes, I'm still not sure if it's a real thing) but I was told by Dr Damien Downing people with pyroluria don't tolerate supplemental Omega 3 well. I was getting a very chatty, scatty brain and worse sleep from supplementing.

This time round I am obviously getting the benefits of Plasmalogens (Alkylglycerols) but still notice the odd bit of "brain overactivity" but it seems to be balancing out and generally more benefit than side effects of Omega3.

However if I could afford constant Prodrome, I would probably go for that to just not have the Omegas. I'm fine with Omegas from food so it may just be oxidized preserved supplements.

 

[Methyl90]

Just a quick report back FWIW, I am getting the same positive effects from Shark Liver Oil as from ProdromeGlia.

Those being a marginal improvement of a few % including sense of brain returning to normal and sense of self coming back, i.e. More clarity and better mood. Hence then slightly better sleep and a bit more energy.

Only down side is that SLO obviously contains some Omega3 and a few years back I finally worked out after supplementing Omega3 from 2015-2017, that actually Omega 3 is no good for me because of Pyroluria (yes, I'm still not sure if it's a real thing) but I was told by Dr Damien Downing people with pyroluria don't tolerate supplemental Omega 3 well. I was getting a very chatty, scatty brain and worse sleep from supplementing.

This time round I am obviously getting the benefits of Plasmalogens (Alkylglycerols) but still notice the odd bit of "brain overactivity" but it seems to be balancing out and generally more benefit than side effects of Omega3.

However if I could afford constant Prodrome, I would probably go for that to just not have the Omegas. I'm fine with Omegas from food so it may just be oxidized preserved supplements.

Maybe you just need to compensate for excessive lipid peroxidation, vitamin E as alpha tocopherol could help you, maybe even tocotrienols... you should try them. Is your diet high in vitamin A?

 

[Hoosierfans]

Just a quick report back FWIW, I am getting the same positive effects from Shark Liver Oil as from ProdromeGlia.

This is great news! Is there a brand you like? And what dose are you taking of SLO?

 

[ChrisD]

This is great news! Is there a brand you like? And what dose are you taking of SLO?

I'm in the UK and using a brand that is sold at the chemist here called Immutone - I quite like the fact that it's regulated by the chemist online. 1000mg dose in one capsule, I may go to 2 caps soon (1-2 a day guidance).

@Methyl90 Yes I have been on Tocotrienols as advised by M.E. Specialist for Liver health and also STAT3/WASF3. This may explain why I haven't had the significant brain stimulation/dysfunction from years before.

 

[Murph]

I've bought shark liver oil and started taking a couple of tablets a day. the product I got is this one:

https://www.beevitamins.com.au/products/costar-shark-liver-oil-1000mg-365-capsules-australian-made

Seems like very good value at A$33.50 for 365 1000mg tablets.

Took them yesterday and certainly feel okay today. Will report back on whether I notice anything material over the medium term.

 

[elliem]

I've bought shark liver oil and started taking a couple of tablets a day. the product I got is this one:

https://www.beevitamins.com.au/products/costar-shark-liver-oil-1000mg-365-capsules-australian-made

Seems like very good value at A$33.50 for 365 1000mg tablets.

Took them yesterday and certainly feel okay today. Will report back on whether I notice anything material over the medium term.

Do the capsules have a taste? I’m vegetarian so don’t want to take this, but would break for healthcare. I think I recall you posting that it’s a byproduct of shark culling, not creating new demand?

I tried a month of prodrome glia loading dose. Didn’t have noticeable improvements so couldn’t justify the cost.

Very very keen to hear how it goes. Please report back.

 

[hapl808]

I tried a month of prodrome glia loading dose. Didn’t have noticeable improvements so couldn’t justify the cost.

Interesting. I hear a lot of positive things, but I'm also skeptical having so few things that move the needle at all for me.

 

[elliem]

Interesting. I hear a lot of positive things, but I'm also skeptical having so few things that move the needle at all for me.

Yeah. I forked out for it because of all the rave reviews from pwme on twitter.

If I had the money I would keep trying it, but it’s one of those interventions where I needed noticeable results early on to keep going. In all my years I’ve really only had that from beta blockers and peptides. I stick with other less costly supplements for the chance of 1% help, but can’t justify this. Was burned last year with a very costly year of two types of antivirals - stuck with them for a whole year and no change in my functioning, just drained my savings.

But if I were to suddenly come into money (lol) I would definitely do prodrome glia for a solid 6-12 months. The science looks interesting.

Good luck if you try it.

 

[Murph]

I've bought shark liver oil and started taking a couple of tablets a day. the product I got is this one:

https://www.beevitamins.com.au/products/costar-shark-liver-oil-1000mg-365-capsules-australian-made

Seems like very good value at A$33.50 for 365 1000mg tablets.

Took them yesterday and certainly feel okay today. Will report back on whether I notice anything material over the medium term.

It's a couple of months later and I've been taking four shark liver oil tablets a day. I feel a lot better.

Of course the shark liver oil tablets aren't the only thing I've changed over that time so I can't be confident they're the reason i feel better. But it seems they are not hurting and it's possible i'll continue to feel better and better the longer time goes on. I will at some point experiment with stopping taking them too and see If I notice anything.

[ This uncertainty is what you'd expect if something takes a while to work. Slow-acting interventions make it very slow to obtain evidence, and the long time period also introduces confounders: very few people can keep their life identical over a two-month period. There are a lot of people in the me/cfs community who like to say "If that worked we'd know" in reference to the possibility common supplements or diet hacks might be effective. I'd encourage people to be much more humble than that about what we're really able to know. ]

 

[Mumbo_Jumbo]

It's a couple of months later and I've been taking four shark liver oil tablets a day. I feel a lot better.

Of course the shark liver oil tablets aren't the only thing I've changed over that time so I can't be confident they're the reason i feel better. But it seems they are not hurting and it's possible i'll continue to feel better and better the longer time goes on. I will at some point experiment with stopping taking them too and see If I notice anything.

[ This uncertainty is what you'd expect if something takes a while to work. Slow-acting interventions make it very slow to obtain evidence, and the long time period also introduces confounders: very few people can keep their life identical over a two-month period. There are a lot of people in the me/cfs community who like to say "If that worked we'd know" in reference to the possibility common supplements or diet hacks might be effective. I'd encourage people to be much more humble than that about what we're really able to know. ]

If you don't mind sharing Murph, what else have you changed that might have contributed to your improvement?

 

[junkcrap50]

It's a couple of months later and I've been taking four shark liver oil tablets a day. I feel a lot better.

Of course the shark liver oil tablets aren't the only thing I've changed over that time so I can't be confident they're the reason i feel better. But it seems they are not hurting and it's possible i'll continue to feel better and better the longer time goes on. I will at some point experiment with stopping taking them too and see If I notice anything.

[ This uncertainty is what you'd expect if something takes a while to work. Slow-acting interventions make it very slow to obtain evidence, and the long time period also introduces confounders: very few people can keep their life identical over a two-month period. There are a lot of people in the me/cfs community who like to say "If that worked we'd know" in reference to the possibility common supplements or diet hacks might be effective. I'd encourage people to be much more humble than that about what we're really able to know. ]

Cool. I started taking 4 sharkoil tablets/day too and so far have done a little over a month. But I haven't noticed anything. I'll stick with it.

 

[slowlybutsurely13q]

Do the capsules have a taste? I’m vegetarian so don’t want to take this, but would break for healthcare. I think I recall you posting that it’s a byproduct of shark culling, not creating new demand?

I tried a month of prodrome glia loading dose. Didn’t have noticeable improvements so couldn’t justify the cost.

Very very keen to hear how it goes. Please report back.

Hi. Just a heads up there is a very low likelihood that you can find shark oil that is sustainably caught. Deep sea sharks are heavily overfished and many species are targeted for their oil, though more caught as by catch (accidentally). The main offender is cosmetic companies, but the growing demand for shark oil is now threatening previously stable populations.

I haven't totally made up my mind, because cost is absolutely a factor, but this may push me back towards the plasmalogen route.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/deepwater-sharks-are-threatened-by-demand-for-liver-oil/

Do the capsules have a taste? I’m vegetarian so don’t want to take this, but would break for healthcare. I think I recall you posting that it’s a byproduct of shark culling, not creating new demand?

I tried a month of prodrome glia loading dose. Didn’t have noticeable improvements so couldn’t justify the cost.

Very very keen to hear how it goes. Please report back.

Hi. Just a heads up there is a very low likelihood that you can find shark oil that is sustainably caught. There just isn't good monitoring and management for deep water fishing, and there are no deep sea shark farms. Deep sea sharks are heavily overfished and many species are targeted for their oil, though many more caught as by catch (accidentally, and sadly these are often juveniles from slow reproducing species). The main offender is cosmetic companies, but the growing demand for shark oil is now threatening previously stable populations.

I haven't totally made up my mind, because cost is absolutely a factor, but this may push me back towards the plasmalogen route.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/deepwater-sharks-are-threatened-by-demand-for-liver-oil/

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.ade9121

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Pomegranate extract, G

ellagic acid has been helping my digestion. It maybe helping other things, but noticeably its helped knock out SIBO and calm down my gut.

 

[elliem]

Hi. Just a heads up there is a very low likelihood that you can find shark oil that is sustainably caught.

Thanks for this info. Cross that off the list for me. Please do let me know if you decide to try plasmalogens again. If I suddenly come into money, I think I would. Highly unlikely, but a girl can dream.

 

[ChrisD]

Thanks for this info. Cross that off the list for me. Please do let me know if you decide to try plasmalogens again. If I suddenly come into money, I think I would. Highly unlikely, but a girl can dream.

@slowlybutsurely13q Save yourself first, then save the world? That's my mantra anyway

 

[SqueakyPScott]

Despite the cost, I tried ProdromeGlia for two months. I took one softgel upon waking and another at bedtime. Right away, my 'restless legs' at night (technically, 'periodic limb movement disorder') seemed to go away, my brain fog was significantly weaker, and there were signs of greater mental acuity beyond that. The effects didn't change markedly over time, although on some days my restless legs returned, albeit more weakly.

Then I switched to NeuroREGAIN, in the hope that the effect would be stronger. Instead, from the first day, I went back to my previous condition: bad brain fog when upright and restless legs at night. After six days without any improvement, I switched back to ProdromeGlia, and the effects were the same as before.

Thus, I continue to take ProdromeGlia because it helps but, unfortunately, doesn't seem to have any cumulative effect.

How long did it take you to notice an improvement in brain fog? I have been taking 50mg/kg of glia oil for two days now without any noticeable change.

 

[tasha]

Despite the cost, I tried ProdromeGlia for two months. I took one softgel upon waking and another at bedtime. Right away, my 'restless legs' at night (technically, 'periodic limb movement disorder') seemed to go away, my brain fog was significantly weaker, and there were signs of greater mental acuity beyond that. The effects didn't change markedly over time, although on some days my restless legs returned, albeit more weakly.

Then I switched to NeuroREGAIN, in the hope that the effect would be stronger. Instead, from the first day, I went back to my previous condition: bad brain fog when upright and restless legs at night. After six days without any improvement, I switched back to ProdromeGlia, and the effects were the same as before.

Thus, I continue to take ProdromeGlia because it helps but, unfortunately, doesn't seem to have any cumulative effect.

In case anyone is looking to try I have a 25% off discount code for Prodrome Sciences: DrT25