My experience on plasmalogens

[TracyD]

Despite the cost, I tried ProdromeGlia for two months. I took one softgel upon waking and another at bedtime. Right away, my 'restless legs' at night (technically, 'periodic limb movement disorder') seemed to go away, my brain fog was significantly weaker, and there were signs of greater mental acuity beyond that. The effects didn't change markedly over time, although on some days my restless legs returned, albeit more weakly.

Then I switched to NeuroREGAIN, in the hope that the effect would be stronger. Instead, from the first day, I went back to my previous condition: bad brain fog when upright and restless legs at night. After six days without any improvement, I switched back to ProdromeGlia, and the effects were the same as before.

Thus, I continue to take ProdromeGlia because it helps but, unfortunately, doesn't seem to have any cumulative effect.

 

[hapl808]

Shame that it wasn't cumulative. Seems expensive, but some people have claimed significant improvements. Something I haven't tried yet.

 

[junkcrap50]

Prodrome actually doesn't contain any plasmalogens, but rather the precursors (alkyl glycerols) to them. It is actually better that way. Plasamalogens themselves don't survive the stomach. Also, the precurors are made into a wider range of plasmalogens. And there is research showing the precursors makes/raises plasmalogens levels pretty high.

ProdromeNeuro = 1-O-alkyl-2-acyl glycerol oils with either DHA
ProdromeGlia = 1-O-alkyl-2-acyl glycerol oils with oleic acid at the 2-acyl position

The NeuroREGAIN contains plasmalogens from scallop extracts, so it likely wasn't raising plasmalogens much compared to the Prodrome.

I'm interested in trying Lipid Replacement Therapy & high dose plasmalogens. I saw a twitter user claim she was cured of her mold toxicity/CIRS or mold-induced ME/CFS using them but she was using 6 capsules/day (very expensive).

So, I am thinking about looking into getting bulk amounts of Prodrome's alkyl glycerol products from a chemical company or having them custom synthesized. Goodenowe has a patent on and some studies using a couple synthetic precursors, two called PPI-1011 and PPI-1040, which are supposed to raise levels higher. They could also be synthesized. PPI-1011 has the sn-1, sn-2 and sn-3 composed of palmitic acid, DHA and lipoic acid. PPI-1040 has palmitic acid, DHA, & a propietary cyclic phosphoethanolamine group that increases the molecule's stability at the sn-3 position.

 

[Hoosierfans]

Can someone give me the kindegarten version of what plasminogens are? Thx!

 

[ChrisD]

I've also been using Prodrome Glia for about a week or so, just at maintenance dose (as I can't afford the steep loading dose + maintenance dose cost) but I haven't definitely noticed a bit of an improvement - hard to explain how but just feel a bit more like my old self and when something is helping me I often feel more 'oxygenated', every nasal breath feels really good and oxygen seems to circulate better around my body. In general it's making my body feel calmer and more restful too.

I should mention that I am also using several other interventions such as acyclovir, Lyme herbs, Tudca, Pomegranate extract, Goji berry extract, PeakATP (on and off) - all of these have provided incremental help, but the week since prodromeglia has been quite noticeable.

I did also go and order NeuroRegain in the black Friday sale as a cheaper (slightly) option to Prodrome + international shipping but it appears that may not work as well. Another brand I found was called Ceregain.

Also on the mention of Alkylglycerols, I see Shark Liver Oil is a good source but not sure they are exactly the say molecular structure. Also ethical issues with Shark extracts...

 

[TracyD]

Can someone give me the kindegarten version of what plasminogens are? Thx!

To a large extent, our bodies are composed of cells. The outer wall of each cell is called its membrane. The membrane is actually complex. Plasmalogens are a type of molecule that make up part of the cell membrane, They protect the cell from different types of damage. They might do other helpful things, too.

 

[WinterWren]

Has anyone purchased this to be shipped to Canada? That’s been stopping me from trying, it’s never clear what the duties/taxes will be until it arrives and it’s already so expensive.

I see two websites to order from so I’m also trying to get a discount code. Thanks for posting your experience @TracyD

 

[Hoosierfans]

To a large extent, our bodies are composed of cells. The outer wall of each cell is called its membrane. The membrane is actually complex. Plasmalogens are a type of molecule that make up part of the cell membrane, They protect the cell from different types of damage. They might do other helpful things, too.

Hmmm….interesting. I had a CIRS doc who had me on high doses of phospholipids for the same reason, and they didn’t do much. We tried different doses, reputable brands etc. Nada.

What’s the difference between plasminogens and phospholipids?

So the goal with them is to protect cells from damage from, ie ROS etc?

I seem to have an issue w membranes in that a lot of nutrients don’t seem to be getting into my cells. Would this be helpful for that?

 

[junkcrap50]

Can someone give me the kindegarten version of what plasminogens are? Thx!

Plasmalogens are a particular type of phospholipid that make up an important part of cell membranes and cell organelles, like mitochondria. They are a large part of the membranes of neurological cells like brain cells, glial cells, myelin, etc. They have been found to be low in chronic, age related diseases such as alzheimers, parkinsons, MS, etc, and early studies show fixing plasmalogen deficiencies can lead to reversal of some age-related effects/symptoms. Also, plasmalogens are susceptible to oxidative stress and inflammation, which can lead to mitochondrial dysfunction and cellular dysfunction.

You may be more familiar with/heard of Cardiolipin as it's well researched in heart disease. It is important lipid membrane of mitochondria, and while not a plasmalogen because of the difference of its structure, it is essential the same type of thing. I honestly don't know why there isn't a way to supplement with cardiolipin or its precursors.

 

[junkcrap50]

Hmmm….interesting. I had a CIRS doc who had me on high doses of phospholipids for the same reason, and they didn’t do much. We tried different doses, reputable brands etc. Nada.

What’s the difference between plasminogens and phospholipids?

So the goal with them is to protect cells from damage from, ie ROS etc?

I seem to have an issue w membranes in that a lot of nutrients don’t seem to be getting into my cells. Would this be helpful for that?

Plasmalogens are a more narrow type of phospholipid.
The goal with supplementing them is to replace the oxidized ones and refresh your cells with better functioning membranes. So, basically the same goal as taking high dose phospholilpids, but I'm not sure how that is or isn't effective.
I'm also not sure if it would help nutrients getting into cells. I mean maybe since all things have to pass the cell membrane. They're important in cellular & metabolic signaling.

 

[Wayne]

Plasmalogens are a type of molecule that make up part of the cell membrane

I'm also not sure if it would help nutrients getting into cells. I mean maybe since all things have to pass the cell membrane. They're important in cellular & metabolic signaling.

Hey Guys, I've long been interested in cell membranes and things that can improve their function. My interest was first piqued when I discovered that MSM (methylsulfonylmethane) improved cell wall permeability. So I started taking some, and within a short while (maybe 3-4 days), I had a major elimination (as in a significant cold) which I attributed it to MSM's ability to release pent up toxins within the cell.

I just did a quick search on MSM and cell wall permeability, and it appears mainstream medicine is aware of this, and using this in a variety of ways (I think mostly to deliver certain drugs more efficiently). Anyway, wanted to mention that MSM might be worth considering as an adjunctive supplement to taking the plasmalogens. I don't know what the cost comparison might be, but from the references to the cost of plasmalogens, it might be a way to get a little more bang for the buck.

 

[Hoosierfans]

@junkcrap50 thanks for your reply. A lot of functional docs I have seen in the past were super high on phospholipids and I can’t count the amount i tried over the years. But no results. I’ll look into the plasmalogins and maybe try them. Maybe they will work better than straight phospholipids.

 

[consuegra]

Hi,

Dayan Goodenowe of Prodrome has done a lot of work on Plasmalogens in relation to aging/dementia. He has written a coherent book on Alzheimers. To me, who has watched a great many YouTube videos of various practitioners/researchers, Davyan Goodenowe seems more convincing than most with a testing and treatment plan to reverse low plasmalogens, or to maintain plasmalogens levels as one ages. We lose plasmalogens as we age and they cannot be replaced by diet. They seem to be necessary for brain, heart, kidney and liver health. His test is somewhat complex for the uninitiated, like me, but I have learned to understand it and its interrelated complexities.

I have done the Prodrome test on my daughter and then on myself. Both of us are taking plasmalogen precursors and also other support mechanisms, many of which I am familiar as they are taken to support mitochondrial and peroxisomal function - creatine, choline, seraphos, Alpha-Lipoic Acid, carnitine.

The test is expensive, the treatments are expensive. Prices have dropped in the last few months with hopes for more reduction as production heats up.

In both my daughter's case and my own, there has been mild/modest improvement in cognition and strength.

I am encouraged by these products and hope they help others. (I wouldn't/t necessary ascribed to the other plasmalogen precursors on the market). At least with Prodrome you can track your progress, or lack of progress, with follow-up testing.

It is worth watching or listening to Goodenowe if you are able.

Chris

 

[Murph]

I can't believe you all haven't read it since it has such an enticing titlle, but this thread is all about plasmalogens in mecfs:

Bayesian Statistics Improves Biological Interpretability of Metabolomics Data from Human Cohorts (Brydges, Che, Lipkin, Fiehn 2023)​

Plasmalogens are exclusively made by peroxisomes ( a little organelle in the cell) and that type of organelle is shown to be malfunctioning.

I dug in on the topic a few weeks ago and came out with the belief shark liver oil is the product that contains the most plasmalogen precursors in the most cost-effective format.

Cell membranes are a HUGE suspect in this disease. poor cell function when they need to move things in and out at high rates, plus poor endothelial and gut function in many of us, it all points to stiff membranes. Then there's the results of all the metabolite research which almost always show lipid metabolism disturbance.

it's hard to know exactly where in the disease process membranes are being affected, whether it is right near the top of the causal chain or downstream of a metabolism problem, but i bet it's a big part of our symptoms. I'm very open to the idea of plasmalogens being important, The research on them in other conditions seems well-established and the risk of supplementing them seems low.

There's not quite as much research as you'd expect on peroxisomes, it's weird. for a ong time people figured they were boring / straightforward I guess. The exact sort of place where we might find an overlooked problem that explains a misunderstood disease!

 

[Hoosierfans]

So if we want to try this should we try the ProdromeGlia or just go with straight shark liver oil? And if the latter, anyone have recommendations for brand and amounts?

 

[TracyD]

So if we want to try this should we try the ProdromeGlia or just go with straight shark liver oil? And if the latter, anyone have recommendations for brand and amounts?

If the evidence for each seemed equal to me, I'd try the cheaper one first and then the expensive one, separately.

 

[ChrisD]

So if we want to try this should we try the ProdromeGlia or just go with straight shark liver oil? And if the latter, anyone have recommendations for brand and amounts?

Just want to say, I brought up Shark Liver Oil in the hope that someone brainier than me could confirm whether it could provide the same Plasmalogen pre cursor Alkylglycerols as something like Prodrome.

It wasn't a suggestion or advice to go for it. Just got clarity

 

[Hoosierfans]

Just want to say, I brought up Shark Liver Oil in the hope that someone brainier than me could confirm whether it could provide the same Plasmalogen pre cursor Alkylglycerols as something like Prodrome.

It wasn't a suggestion or advice to go for it. Just got clarity

Ok good to know…just surfing around, here’s what I found:

From a Reddit user who took Prodrome for 4 months with no change in inflammatory markers:

“Here is a recent review paper on plasmalogen replacement therapy:

https://doi.org/10.3390/membranes11110838 "Plasmalogen Replacement Therapy" (2021)

Now that I've read this paper it seems direct plasmalogen intake by mouth gets metabolized before absorption since both acidity (stomach) and pancreatic enzymes in enterocyte metabolism to chylomicrons "break" it. Probably another reason for the Prodrome product failing to reduce inflammatory markers with my use. Good to know. The paper suggests intake of alkylglycerols provide precursors to endogenous production and can raise levels in other compartments except the brain. Based on this, a source of alkylglycerols could be useful. Unfortunately, shark liver oil is the best source (~50% of the liver oils in deep-sea shark are alkylglycerols). Other marine animals have alkylglycerols but at much less quantities.

https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/0079-6832(78)90036-8 "Occurrence, synthesis and biological effects of substituted glycerol ethers." (1978)

Fortunately, synthetic versions are being explored and include the ability to cross the BBB. See references in the (2021) link above.”

That’s really all I could find other than antectodal reports of folks saying they had a positive response to Prodrome.

Maybe our resident mad scientist @Hip, who is a master at researching all things supplement related, can weigh in on Shark Liver oil vs Prodrome (or other plasmalogen supplements).

In the couple of studies I read, they used scallop derived plasmalogens.

 

[TracyD]

Ok good to know…just surfing around, here’s what I found:

From a Reddit user who took Prodrome for 4 months with no change in inflammatory markers:

I don't have any reason to think that ProdromeGlia reduced inflammation that would show up in a blood test, but it greatly reduces my periodic limb movement disorder ('restless legs') and, more subjectively, significantly reduces my brain fog. Other pills have reduced my inflammation and had no effect on these symptoms. In short, I think there's more to ME/CFS than levels of inflammatory markers in blood tests can reveal.

NeuroREGAIN, which did nothing discernible for me, is scallop-based.

 

[junkcrap50]

So if we want to try this should we try the ProdromeGlia or just go with straight shark liver oil? And if the latter, anyone have recommendations for brand and amounts?

Shark Liver Oil would probably be the thing to start with. Shark Liver contains many types of plasmalogen precursors (alkylglycerols), Prodrome only has one alkylglycerol per product (as far as I can tell, see quote below).

Table of the many alkyl glycerol types in Shark Liver Oil:

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2953404/

Here is a quote from a paper that describes plasmalogens not surviving the stomach & are broken down before being absorbed and that alkylglycerols are better at raising plasmalogen levels. So I suspect NeuroREGAIN likely would not be effective, since it's advertised as containing plasmalogens (I haven't checked if scallop extract contains plasmalogens or alkylglyercols). Emphasis mine.

Based upon extensive peer-reviewed publications, 1-O-alkyl-2-acyl glycerol oils appear to be a highly effective natural approach to resolving plasmalogen deficits and elevating plasmalogens to protective levels. 1-O-alkyl-2-acyl glycerol oils work with the body’s natural biochemical pathways in the liver and gut, which markedly raises blood plasmalogen levels.39 In the gut, they release a plasmalogen precursor. This plasmalogen precursor retains its DHA sn-2 fatty acid, which allows it to be absorbed into the circulation, where it is converted to the target plasmalogen.39 Alkylglycerols have a well-documented safety profile and have been administered to humans at large doses for long periods of time. For example, Das et al treated genetically compromised infants for up to 4 years with alkylglycerols with no adverse effects.40 Recently, 1-O-alkyl-2-acyl glycerol oils with either DHA (ProdromeNeuro) or oleic acid (ProdromeGlia) at the 2-acyl position have become commercially available. In addition, the company offering these 1-O-alkyl-2-acyl glycerols also offers extensive blood plasmalogen testing services (ProdromeScan).

In contrast, orally ingested phospholipids are degraded by gut enzymes known as phospholipases which remove the 2-acyl fatty acid in these phospholipids in order to produce a lyso-phospholipid, which is then absorbed.39 This eliminates the ability to target specific phospholipid species, like those containing 2-acyl DHA.39 In addition, the vinyl ether bond of intact plasmalogen phospholipids is not stable under acidic conditions. When exposed to acids, the vinyl ether bond is oxidized into aldehydes. Recently published research data showed that 60% of PlsEtn is degraded at pH = 2 and 100% is degraded at pH = 1.41 Considering that the average acidity of the human stomach ranges from pH 1.5 to 3.5, a high proportion of ingested plasmalogen phospholipids will be converted to aldehydes in the stomach. Currently there are no published studies that have investigated the relationship between stomach acid conditions, plasmalogen phospholipid digestion and aldehyde formation, absorption and toxicity.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7572144/