My Concerns about the Coronavirus-19 vaccines

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gbells

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I just had a discussion with my pharmacist about the coronavirus vaccines. I have concerns about the cost to benefit of the vaccines and the possibility of vaccine contamination that might injure patients.

It has been discovered that asian countries have a very low covid death rate of around 1%. This is due to their eating a low inflammation diet, getting omega 3 fat from fish and eating low glyfosate which gives strong gut bacteria. With covid death rates really ramp up in the age group 65 and over if you are eating an asian diet.

The current covid vaccines have varying levels of effectiveness from high effectivenes to low for new strains. Antibodies generated only last 8 months maximum and can be gone in as few as three months.

In 2010 pig porcine circovirus type 1 was found to have contaminated GlaxoSmithKline's Rotarix vaccine. This was only discovered because an independent physician suspected contamination after several patients became sick after getting the vaccine so he had an independent lab test the vaccine and identify what the contaminate was. This is a very scary finding as it indicates that a major pharmaceutical company did not adequately test its product for safety.

Now covid vaccines carry a risk of death from thrombosis.

So in people under 65 following a healthy diet the low benefit does not seem to warrant the low risk of death does not seem to warrant the risk of death from the vaccine.

And how do I know some unknown harmful contaminant isn't present in the vaccine?

Being age 50 I will not be getting the vaccines for that reason. I have already had covid, did not have a bad case and do not think the risks are warranted for people under 65.
 
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Sledgehammer

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As I said in another post. I don't see the benefits of vaccination for me personally as an ME/CFS sufferer.
I'm not a medical expert by a long shot. 15 years of going to see different Doctors had done nothing but give me a diagnosis that I'm ill and nothing can be done.

Will the vaccine stop my suffering? If the answer is no then I'm out.

Please note these are my own opinions. I'm not here to influence others to what meds they should or shouldn't take.
 
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Wishful

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My concern is that the experts have no idea of how PWME will react to the vaccines. Are we at higher or lower risk of complications? What's the expected rate of worsening ME?

I'll wait for some firm statistical data on PWME who get the vaccines. I consider myself at very low risk of exposure to the virus, so that skews my 'benefits' downwards.
 

hapl808

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As @Wishful said, I'm waiting for a bit more info on how various vaccines affect us - mast cell, CFS, etc. We are a strange group that is mostly ignored by medicine, so we have to be cautious.

However, I think @gbells your statement about Asian countries is not entirely accurate (and is from July 2020). There are a huge range of possible reasons that Asian countries have mostly done better - strict quarantines and closed borders, almost universal mask wearing, contract tracing, etc. And these also vary greatly from country to country - so Japan and Taiwan and Korea all have seen different courses of the disease.

I think it's hard to assume any one or two reasons can explain the course. Taiwan has had about 10 deaths from the disease, while Japan has had 8,000. I doubt that's because of diet or microbiome - although I can only guess at the myriad of reasons.
 

Learner1

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If you really want to know about how PWME do it with vaccines, there's a FB group for PWME and vaccines. Lots are getting it and surviving. Some have some side effects, just like everyone else.

The Coalitians Coalition highly recommends we get the vaccine. Other doctors I follow and respect do as well. COVID can be a killer. It's worth it to survive.
 

ljimbo423

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I'd like to see as many people get the vaccine as possible to keep the number of deaths down. Having said that, it's up to each individual to decide for themselves. I have control over 1 person on this planet and only one.:)

I'm pretty sure I got Covid last summer and it was very mild for Covid but I still felt pretty miserable for 9 days. No time in bed though. BTW, I haven't had a cold or flu for 10-15 years or longer. So the chances are very high that it was Covid I had.

I thought if I got it, it would be fairly mild, based on me not having a cold or a flu in so many years (I have a high antiviral immune defense) but feared it would put me in the hospital or worse. I still might get the vaccine when my turn comes but I'm not sure at this point.
 

Alvin2

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Unfortunately we cannot know that the risk from the vaccine will be zero. Frankly i don't like taking any medication that has been on the market for less than a decade, preferably two decades.

That said as a society we should insist on best practices and batch testing and strong post approval followup.
In the case of covid the global magnifying glass will probably help with post approval followup as unless i mistaken at least a few have stated upfront that they are being vigilant on it. But i don't discount the ability of for profit companies to lie and cover up side effects or deaths to preserve their profits.
And non deadly side effects like Narcolepsy are also a potential danger.

Finally the mRNA is a new vaccine technology and new means unreliable. It could be safer or less safe and we have no way of knowing.

We can build arguments against vaccines if we choose to. Before covid i had read an article at the Weston Price foundation about how evil vaccines are. Notably they didn't care about the risks of not being vaccinated against common diseases.

All that said its a risk vs reward. I do not know what getting covid would do to me. I might be fine, i might be really bad and recover, i may end up with long covid or i might die.

I do intend to get the vaccine, though i will research the options and choose which one i want. Either choice is a risk, and getting covid (or Tetanus or Hepatitis or Measles or Polio or Diphtheria) is likely to be much more harmful than the vaccine.

Also if we get an ME treatment my decade or more rule is not going to hold, i will not wait that long to take something that would give me my life back despite the fact it will likely have risk.
 

gbells

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However, I think @gbells your statement about Asian countries is not entirely accurate (and is from July 2020). There are a huge range of possible reasons that Asian countries have mostly done better - strict quarantines and closed borders, almost universal mask wearing, contract tracing, etc. And these also vary greatly from country to country - so Japan and Taiwan and Korea all have seen different courses of the disease.
I disagree. The link between cytokine excess and covid progression is well established. Nutrition's effect on this is also proven as is the fact that red meat causes inflammation due to Heme group proteins. New research just showed up confirming that Vit D3 level was important along these lines too. Here's an article by a dietician and a nutritionist supporting this.

Good pre-vitamin D3 alone pre-infection improved covid survival 24% vs. deficient in elderly cases.

Lifestyle choices provide an important safety buffer for covid severity, even more than vaccines which may not work against new strains. Like I said, if I was 65 or older I would risk it (for the same concerns about contamination/side effects) but not at 50.

However, if I was working and at high exposure risk like a MD I would probably get it. Lots of exposure to covid also worsens severity. However, I'm low risk right now so that isn't a concern.
 
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Sledgehammer

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I'd like to see as many people get the vaccine as possible to keep the number of deaths down. Having said that, it's up to each individual to decide for themselves. I have control over 1 person on this planet and only one.:)

I'm pretty sure I got Covid last summer and it was very mild for Covid but I still felt pretty miserable for 9 days. No time in bed though. BTW, I haven't had a cold or flu for 10-15 years or longer. So the chances are very high that it was Covid I had.

I thought if I got it, it would be fairly mild, based on me not having a cold or a flu in so many years (I have a high antiviral immune defense) but feared it would put me in the hospital or worse. I still might get the vaccine when my turn comes but I'm not sure at this point.
Both of us had the Flu, Covid, call it what you will back in November 2019. It felt life Flu to me with a cough, sweats, etc. She had a cough twice in one month. I'd never seen her that unwell before.
But we recovered after 3 or so weeks. Haven't noticed any other unusual effects as others have stated.

A friend had it on a flight back from his holiday in December 2019. He said he thought he was going to die.
But he at the time was a fit 62 year old. He was quickly back on his feet after a couple of weeks in bed and is fighting fit again.

My immune system took a vacation from me a long time ago and any Flu like bug knocks me for six.
I'm still recovering from an odd cold like bug at present which has given me swollen gums on one side of my mouth and made me feel like crap. It seems to be going now after a couple of weeks. Not sure where it came from as I'm mostly an indoor animal.
 
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I concluded that it was pointless trying to verify whether the vaccines were safe or not, because A) the unresolved controversy about already existing ones B) normal people don't have access to the equipment or knowledge necessary to check these things, even if we could get access to it for testing ( they may not allow it ).
So it comes down to a few questions - is it useful, is it necessary, and do I trust the people that made it or say that I should have it ( bill gates &co ) ?
 
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