Methylfolate and mercury detoxing

[Mary]

What is the link with low potassium and MTHFR? I just found out my blood levels are good but the lowest end of good.

The lowest end of good sounds too low to me. All I know about low potassium and MTHFr was when I started taking methylfolate, my potassium levels tanked. I don't know how low, I didn't have blood work, but the symptoms were horrible fatigue and lethargy (which started a couple of days after starting the folate), and which lifted when I started taking potassium and titrated up to 1000 mg. a day.

I'd suggest looking at some of Freddd's posts. If he hadn't written about how starting the folate could cause potassium levels to suddenly drop, I would have had to stop the methyfolate, which would have been extremely unfortunate because it was helping my energy, until my potassium tanked. He basically says that the folate can rather suddenly increase the need for potassium as the body starts to heal and cells divide, etc. so the increased need for potassium in effect causes low potassium levels.

Mary

 

[Tired of being sick]

Any of you see this documentary?

I am watching it now on xfinity streampix

follow the money
it always knows

 

[Mary]

Sounds like it will be very informative - I don't have xfinity streampix, otherwise would try to watch it, although I looked on Netflix and I can "save" it which I was told means they are trying to get it.

Yes, follow the money indeed!

What I wonder is, I have 9 siblings, all of us had tons of mercury fillings, and I'm the only one who has ended up with serious health problems. I know there are MTHRFR genetic anomalies but again, out of 10 kids, you'd think more than one would have problems.

Mary

 

[pemone]

@caledonia I never got more energy after the mercury was removed and I had DMPS chelation. I feel fine with my metafolin which is at 800 mcgs today.

Hey, not feeling like crap is ok by me!

DMPS IV chelation is DANGEROUS. It can result in significant worsening of symptoms because it results in massive mobilization of mercury, which then quickly resettles into body tissues and causes symptoms.

Get Dr Andrew Cutler's books on mercury toxicity. What I think makes his contribution unique is that he came up with an ultra-conservative chelation protocol that minimizes risks. His key insight is to take chelators orally in ultra-low doses every N hours, where N is the half-life of the chelator. The idea is to keep chelation going at a steady rate for three days. Then you go off the chelator for four days. This creates a one-time settling event of mercury at the end of each chelation period, but during the three days of chelation, you are constantly excreting.

Cutler's protocol uses oral DMSA to clear mercury from the blood, followed by DMSA and ALA to clear mercury from the brain. I have been doing a lot of research on mercury detox for my own case, and I feel Cutler's protocol is the gold standard.

 

[pemone]

This afternoon I went to see my muscle-testing chiropractor and voila! my toxin point was very strong and what came up was mercury. So it appears that somehow the increased folate released mercury that had been stored in my body tissues (the testing indicated tissues in general). The remedy is something called Spanish black radish by Standard Process, which helps with detoxing, which I have taken before with no problem.

Has anyone heard of this before, the relationship between folate and mercury? Or does anyone have any sort of explanation of what's going here? I'm still a bit spacey and extra tired, though quite a bit better than yesterday. I have read about mercury interfering with the utilization of B12 and have done some mercury detoxing, though obviously not enough, but have not read anything about folate and mercury. I had 9 or 10 fillings which were removed in the late 1990's. (and am extremely grateful for my chiropractor! would be lost without him)

There is no association between folate and mercury toxicity in the research literature. Folate should improve methylation which would improve the body's ability to detox. Read that correctly. Folate isn't a mercury detox treatment. It isn't going to make it worse however.

Muscle testing is only suggestive. It's soft science at best. What you need to do is get a Quicksilver Scientific Mercury Tri-Test, which in my own research ends up being the gold standard for mercury testing. Listen to their videos on this page:

https://www.quicksilverscientific.com/mercury-testing/mercury-tri-test

 

[pemone]

Methylfolate and MethylB12 indirectly Releases heavy metals. Viruses and bacterials are in a deep bound with heavy metals, bacterials with Aluminium, and viruses with Mercury and other heavy metals.

As you increase your methylation, you mobilize infects of your cells, and also the metals bounded to the infects.

So it´s very importand, when you increase your methylation, to take chlorella, or EDTA (as Yasko suggests) or anything else.

Do NOT improvise chelation. Done incorrectly it is extremely dangerous and harmful. Every time you chelate you stir up mercury that is stable in body tissues and move it around, with no guarantee that it ever gets out of body. If you are taking the chelator on an incorrect timetable you end up just stirring it up constantly, not excreting most of it, and causing terrible symptoms.

Get Dr Andrew Hall Cutler's books on mercury detox and study the chelation protocol there. That gives a basis for then understanding other chelation protocols, but I have looked at all of them and Cutler's is extremely well thought out and designed, and it is based on real research. He's a Princeton PhD chemist and he did his homework.

 

[pemone]

Thanks Caledonia - I hope you're right, that I don't have much mercury left. I did a couple of months worth of a mercury detox using dmsa and Andy Cutler's protocol several months ago. But this week, the detox symptoms were so strong. I haven't taken any folate for 3 days, have had major detox symptoms for 6 days, but do feel like the worst is over. I've been taking the Spanish black radish and also took some charcoal today.

Sorry, I didn't see you were on Cutler's protocol. Cutler claims you get three months of improvement, but once mercury starts to come out around month six you get worse again. Chelation is not fun.

Have you tested for a sulfur food sensitivity? Radish is high in sulfur and is forbidden on Dr Cutler's high sulfur list:

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

I tested, and I have a huge sulfur food problem. It made a big difference to get those foods out of my diet.

 

[pemone]

What is the "certain order" that the metals come out in ? Dumping Heavy metals has been the biggest problem for me with starting up the methylation process. 2 years in, and I still cannot take more than 200mcg of methyl folate. 30 minutes after taking that I get the metallic taste in my mouth, but at this level it is tolerable. I have a LOT of Lead in me. I am, at this stage doing DIY chelation with DMSA and EDTA caps..... I "use" naturopathic Doctors occasionally for testing etc., but am frightened by how many of them don't have much knowledge of Chelation beyond the basics, and certainly don't know about Methylation Genetics.

I agree with you that most homeopaths that claim to know about detox do not. It's very frustrating as a patient to navigate through this on your own.

What's the protocol you are following for EDTA and DMSA? Have you studied Cutler's protocol? It's important to take the chelator low dose continuously for three days, every half life period of the chelator. I'm pretty sure that 95% of the people taking EDTA and DMSA don't follow that rule and just end up moving heavy metals around instead of maximizing movement out of body.

How did you determine you have lots of lead? Lead settles in the bone. Did you have a bone biopsy?

 

[pemone]

There seems to be a "Faux-battle" between the Cutler and Yasko groups. Cutler says "Start ALA chelation yesterday", while Yasko says " Start methylation and you will start chelating". Being a life long "Vata", I rejoice in following both. I started with Cutler (because I had never really studied Yasko, Richvank or Freddd then). But after 49 rounds of ALA I was getting too many side effects to continue. By then I discovered Freddd and then discovered Freetheanimal's gut rehab protocol. So after nine months away from Cutler I resumed, but this time with a much heartier methylation ability and a much more robust large intestine. Voila! MUCH EASIER CHELATION. My working hypothesis for what I should have done: Get the gut ready first, "play" with improving methylation, and then dig into the ALA stash in your supplement cabinet. But, but , but,.if Cutler chelation is smooth from the get go, just reverse the order.You will need all three eventually. The Cutler-Yasko bravado is way over the top! "You will take no other God before me" doesn't work in religion, and it does not "play well" here either. At least the " FreetheanimalPharm" +Tater" triumvirate never weighed in on this subject. So they "win" by default.

That is NOT Cutler's protocol. Cutler's protocol includes methylation support prior to amalgam removal, so it is exactly what you describe as your end point. Then Cutler suggests about three months of low dose oral DMSA. ONLY THEN does Cutler recommend ALA.

Cutler specifically recommends that you do NOT start with ALA. ALA crosses the blood brain barrier, and starting with ALA if you are high in mercury in the blood means you will pass even more mercury into the brain, making your symptoms even worse.

Where did you ever get the idea that Cutler recommends start chelation with ALA?

 

[pemone]

Hi xrunner - I'm not doubting I have a mercury problem. I did read Andy Cutler's book, I had the hair analysis/mineral testing done, it indicated some mercury toxicity, and I did follow his protocol several months ago, I did it for a couple of months. It was a bit rough and also having to take the pills on such a tight schedule got to be a bit much so I stopped. And Rich did tell me that some of the people who didn't do well on his protocol had mercury toxicity. so I had high hopes when I started Cutler's protocol, but noticed no difference in PEM after a couple of months. So of course it might have been good to keep on with it, but I just couldn't at the time.

I have been helped a lot by muscle testing. It was my chiropractor who discovered my weak adrenals and helped me so much using an adrenal glandular product. He helped my digestion get back on track when the doctors were useless. I've lost track of how much he's helped me.

So this week when I was in lala land and didn't have a clue what was going on, mercury showed up - and maybe if I hadn't been so fuzzy and impaired, I might have figured it out on my own. But I'm very grateful that my chiro picked it up.

As I see it, I have a couple of choices here. Go back to Cutler's protocol which was very slow and tedious - and I know you can't detox mercury quickly - or, try upping the folate a little at a time using the Spanish black radish and see what happens.

Like I said before, I had no clue that increasing methylfolate would cause a detox reaction. I've read about several people taking high doses of methylfolate with no problem, the methylfolate had increased my energy. and I'd never detoxed on it, so was not expecting it to happen.

Just thinking out loud here, but is it possible that you are a rapid reabsorber of bile? Your liver excretes the mercury in bile, but then reabsorbs the mercury back through the gut.

Quicksilver has a very interesting product named IMD - available through homeopaths - that covalently binds thiols to silica particles. Their claim is mercury in bile will bind to the particle and not reabsorb to the gut.

I'm toying with the idea of using IMD in coordination with Cutler's protocol, doing three days on IMD and then four days off.

 

[pemone]

I also use self muscle testing extensively. That being said, you also have to use common sense and talk to your doc if you're stuck or getting worse.
I've found muscle testing is terrible for determining electrolyte status. This is because it relies on good electrolyte balance and good hydration to be accurate. One other problem I've had is with determining B12 doses initially because there is a lag time before methylation kicks in. It is also necessary to use trial and error at certain times.

So while self muscle testing can be useful as a shortcut for trial and error, I wouldn't suggest turning your brain off and relying on it as a sole 100% sure fire method. There is no such thing, or we would all be cured by now...

For approximating electrolyte status, buy a $30 conductivity meter and use it to test urine:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0038QTQZ8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This has been a life saver for me. I detected extreme dehydration as well as get clues about when to take supplemental electrolytes (when urine tests as too dilute).

I typically take sodium bicarb and potassium bicarb as my electrolyte and that has the added bonus of neutralizing acidity.

 

[Mary]

Just thinking out loud here, but is it possible that you are a rapid reabsorber of bile? Your liver excretes the mercury in bile, but then reabsorbs the mercury back through the gut.

Quicksilver has a very interesting product named IMD - available through homeopaths - that covalently binds thiols to silica particles. Their claim is mercury in bile will bind to the particle and not reabsorb to the gut.

I'm toying with the idea of using IMD in coordination with Cutler's protocol, doing three days on IMD and then four days off.

Hi pone - thank you for all your suggestions. Sure, I could be a rapid resorber of bile. I definitely have detox problems. Glutamine makes me detox, glycine does, inositol does, the list goes on. I looked up IMD, $150 for 6 grams - are you sure it's a legal substance? Ahhh, why does it have to be so pricey. I did read several good reviews from parents of autistic children who swore by it. So I suppose it would be worth trying at least once (after Christmas!)

The tri-metal mercury test might be good too. I agree - muscle testing is only suggestive but it has helped me on numerous occasions, but it doesn't have all the answers. But I would have been much worse off without it - it helped me with very weak adrenals and several digestion issues.

About the sulfur - I never have a reaction to high-sulfur foods. They don't cause me to detox. But the Spanish black radish does affect me pretty strongly. So I'm not sure about the sulfur issue but am not taking any more of the SBR.

Thanks again though for your posts - you know a lot about this subject!

Mary

 

[caledonia]

For approximating electrolyte status, buy a $30 conductivity meter and use it to test urine:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0038QTQZ8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This has been a life saver for me. I detected extreme dehydration as well as get clues about when to take supplemental electrolytes (when urine tests as too dilute).

I typically take sodium bicarb and potassium bicarb as my electrolyte and that has the added bonus of neutralizing acidity.

Very interesting. Sounds like it could be a useful tool, especially for those starting out.

 

[Mary]

Sorry, I didn't see you were on Cutler's protocol. Cutler claims you get three months of improvement, but once mercury starts to come out around month six you get worse again. Chelation is not fun.

Have you tested for a sulfur food sensitivity? Radish is high in sulfur and is forbidden on Dr Cutler's high sulfur list:

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

I tested, and I have a huge sulfur food problem. It made a big difference to get those foods out of my diet.

How do you test for a sulfur food sensitivity?

 

[pemone]

Very interesting. Sounds like it could be a useful tool, especially for those starting out.

Honestly, if you have highly variable hydration levels, you cannot dial in correct hydration without a conductivity meter. You either end up drinking far too little water and being extremely dehydrated, or you end up drinking water by the liter and so diluted that you need to take additional electrolytes to get back into balance.

 

[pemone]

How do you test for a sulfur food sensitivity?

In theory, it is easy. You get Cutler's high sulfur list and you get Cutler's low sulfur list. I gave you URL to the high list and the low list is linked there somewhere. Ask me for it if you cannot find it.

You redesign your meals to not include any of the high sulfur foods for a week. By the end of that week you will certainly know if you react to sulfur foods or not. Your energy level will stop going on a roller coaster three to four hours after meals.

In practice this test is extremely hard. Sulfur foods are in everything. Eggs have sulfur. I just cannot live without eggs. All of my recipes use eggs. It's a horrible imposition on me to not eat them. But if you do the test correctly you plan your meals for a week without any high sulfur foods.

Reacting to sulfur foods is premised on your being mercury toxic. The thiol groups in sulfur have to be binding to mercury and moving it around in your body in order to exhibit the adverse reaction. I really think you should invest in the Mercury Tri-Test. If it shows you do not have high mercury load AND your body disposes of the load it has very well, then you can stop chasing that diagnosis and pursue other things.

 

[Tired of being sick]

Sounds like it will be very informative - I don't have xfinity streampix, otherwise would try to watch it, although I looked on Netflix and I can "save" it which I was told means they are trying to get it.

Yes, follow the money indeed!

What I wonder is, I have 9 siblings, all of us had tons of mercury fillings, and I'm the only one who has ended up with serious health problems. I know there are MTHRFR genetic anomalies but again, out of 10 kids, you'd think more than one would have problems.

Mary

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[Mary]

In theory, it is easy. You get Cutler's high sulfur list and you get Cutler's low sulfur list. I gave you URL to the high list and the low list is linked there somewhere. Ask me for it if you cannot find it.

You redesign your meals to not include any of the high sulfur foods for a week. By the end of that week you will certainly know if you react to sulfur foods or not. Your energy level will stop going on a roller coaster three to four hours after meals.

In practice this test is extremely hard. Sulfur foods are in everything. Eggs have sulfur. I just cannot live without eggs. All of my recipes use eggs. It's a horrible imposition on me to not eat them. But if you do the test correctly you plan your meals for a week without any high sulfur foods.

Reacting to sulfur foods is premised on your being mercury toxic. The thiol groups in sulfur have to be binding to mercury and moving it around in your body in order to exhibit the adverse reaction. I really think you should invest in the Mercury Tri-Test. If it shows you do not have high mercury load AND your body disposes of the load it has very well, then you can stop chasing that diagnosis and pursue other things.

@pone - thank you for the info. Actually, I don't react to high sulfur containing foods. My energy level does not go on a roller coaster hours or any time after eating any of the high sulfur foods. My energy level tanks - delayed onset wipeout - some 20 hours or so after over-exertion (post-exertional malaise). My threshold for activity is very low - 3 to 4 hours of light activity. If I exceed that, I crash the next day.

I am going to get the Mercury Tri Test done - thanks so much for the recommendation! I looked it up on-line on the Quicksilver site yesterday, found a chiropractor about 2 hours away who does this testing, talked to him yesterday on the phone, he's going to send me a link so I can get the testing done without seeing him first because it's difficult for me to travel - it makes me crash. And he said the testing should show, besides mercury and other toxins, how well my body does or does not detox. I definitely have issues with detoxing - anything that facilitates Phase II detoxification makes me detox rather badly, so something is amiss. This includes amino acids glutamine and glycine, inositol, higher doses of methylfolate, and other things. It will be extremely helpful for me to get more information about this. I didn't know this testing was available so I am very grateful you posted about it.

Mary

 

[pemone]

@pone - thank you for the info. Actually, I don't react to high sulfur containing foods. My energy level does not go on a roller coaster hours or any time after eating any of the high sulfur foods. My energy level tanks - delayed onset wipeout - some 20 hours or so after over-exertion (post-exertional malaise). My threshold for activity is very low - 3 to 4 hours of light activity. If I exceed that, I crash the next day.

Not everyone who is mercury toxic gets the sulfur crash.

The post-exertional malaise is of course the hallmark of CFS. Without that you probably don't have CFS at all. I spent a lot of time analyzing my own post-exertional malaise and quickly realized that this was actually not malaise, but rather an acidity that was spread throughout my muscles and left them unable to contract strongly. For me, in the days after exercise, the acidity becomes systemic, causes fast breathing, and I get intense brain fog.

I found that I could treat this condition and recover much more quickly by taking sodium and potassium bicarbonate. Sodium bicarb alone is sufficient. Take it at least one hour before meals or you will really mess up your stomach acid during meals. Try 1/2 teaspoon and see how your body reacts to that. You can go up to 1 teaspoon.

I also use ph paper to measure acidity/alkalinity of urine, and whenever I am running too acid I take the sodium bicarb.

I am going to get the Mercury Tri Test done - thanks so much for the recommendation! I looked it up on-line on the Quicksilver site yesterday, found a chiropractor about 2 hours away who does this testing, talked to him yesterday on the phone, he's going to send me a link so I can get the testing done without seeing him first because it's difficult for me to travel - it makes me crash. And he said the testing should show, besides mercury and other toxins, how well my body does or does not detox. I definitely have issues with detoxing - anything that facilitates Phase II detoxification makes me detox rather badly, so something is amiss. This includes amino acids glutamine and glycine, inositol, higher doses of methylfolate, and other things. It will be extremely helpful for me to get more information about this. I didn't know this testing was available so I am very grateful you posted about it.

Quicksilver has two different tests. The "Tri-Test" is mercury ONLY. It is the best mercury test out there because of its sensitivity level as well as its ability to speciate organic and inorganic forms of mercury. The way they correlate blood to urine and blood to hair, to detect inefficient disposal by kidneys and liver is extremely clever, and unique to this test. Quicksilver has another test that looks at other toxic metals. If you can afford it, get both tests. If you can only do one, then do the Tri-Test because the multi-metal test to my knowledge does NOT include the information in Tri-Test.

Quicksilver has an option for you to talk to them directly to interpret your test result. Do that. They know their test better than anyone else. You want to hear the nuance they put on things directly.

IF you are mercury toxic based on this test, pay attention to Cutler's books. You don't want to mess with things that have single thiols in them like glutathione. You also don't want to use real two-thiol chelators in high doses, and especially not at irregular intervals. That means avoid supplements that include ALA. These are things incorrectly will make you even sicker. Learning to read labels almost becomes a matter of live and death, or at least being a little sick versus being so miserable that life isn't worth living.

I don't understand why Quicksilver insists on adding ALA into their Vitamin C and other supplements. The smart thing for them to do would be to make their liposomal ALA a completely separate product, so that people could use it in Cutler's protocol or as an adjunct to other protocols. The bottom line is don't fall in the trap of taking everything Quicksilver is selling. Some of it makes sense, and some of it does not.

 

[Mary]

@pone - thanks for all the tips re the tests- very good information! I'll keep it in mind. Did you do the test and if so, what were your results?

My crashing, PEM, sounds different than yours. I don't get brain fog or fast breathing - it's a complete loss of energy, and if I try to push myself to do something while crashed, the exhaustion is even worse. I will start to get achy and tired the night before and by morning the backs of my legs will be aching and by late morning it's generally full-blown. It's a long story but have found that branched chain amino acids lessen the duration of the crash. Sometime I'll do a post on this.