Methylene Blue -- The "Perfect Supplement" For ME/CFS (?)

[CSMLSM]

Interesting information on methylene blue @Wayne I actually watched something on it the other day having never heard of it before and it does look attractive for certain things, if I wasn`t in remission from my own treatment approach I may have considered trying it.

Really glad it is having such a positive affect for you.

 

[Judee]

So I'm still researching this. That same site I posted in my last post said, "Methylene blue (methylthioninium chloride) is structurally related to tricyclic antidepressants."

WebMD's page on those: https://www.webmd.com/depression/tricyclic-tetracyclic-antidepressants

It talks about side effects and I think concluded by saying, "To help you stop your TCA safely, your doctor may slowly wean you off the medication." (Not sure if there was more since I didn't page down farther. I'm sorry.)

But that makes me think if one has been taking a significant amount of MB for a while that it might be a good idea to wean off of it too.

Edit: I wanted to also add one more caution I've read. Dr Marty Ross says, "Before starting methylene blue check a glucose 6 phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) blood test, If you have low levels of G6PD, methylene blue could break your red blood cells apart."

 

[Judee]

More research:

https://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Methylene_Blue_-_clinical_uses

I didn't realize that we can't eat tyramines with this. Her website says, "you MUST avoid foods that contain tyramine (cheese, soy sauce, liver, alcohol and salami)."

@brenda, do you think you were eating any of those when your bp spiked so high? I think that's the side effect if someone uses a MAOI and eats tyramines.

I don't eat the others except maybe liver once in a while but I do use goat cheese as a protein source.

 

[brenda]

@Judee maybe cheese I can't remember and not on MAOI but I am wondering whether to give it another go as I have quit grains and hoping my BP will go down.

 

[Judee]

not on MAOI

I'm sorry. I should have included the full quote by Dr Myhill about Methylene Blue:

"MB is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor which explains its anti-depressive and anti-anxiety effects - see Methylene blue and its analogues as antidepressant compounds

However, you MUST avoid foods that contain tyramine (cheese, soy sauce, liver, alcohol and salami).

Also, avoid prescription medications such as SSRIs and tricyclic antidepressants."

So if I'm understanding correctly she is saying that MB is (or maybe acts like) a MAOI hence the caution not to eat tyramine foods at the same time as using MB.

 

[hapl808]

I think that's technically correct, but MAO-I depends greatly on dose. So I imagine that 60mcg would have a very different impact than 6mg (since it's 100x the dosage).

 

[brenda]

Thanks Judee I will keep that in mind.

 

[Wayne]

the full quote by Dr Myhill about Methylene Blue: -- "MB is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor which explains its anti-depressive and anti-anxiety effects - see Methylene blue and its analogues as antidepressant compounds

I just ran across an interesting tidbit on MB posted on the Ray Peat forum:

"When I was suffering with a thiamine deficiency, I could not tolerate even the tiniest dose of MB. Thiamine is needed to clear the brain of serotonin."​

 

[Slushiefan]

Hi. Sharing my MB experience here.

I use a 1 gram powder to 100ml water mix, and I started with 5 drops 3x daily), moved up to 15 drops 3x daily per day of MB.

I started at a high dose b/c needed to be sure it was doing something vs anything else I am working on, and as I am in a 'health valley' right now that has been steadily worsening things overall for a few years now. My old standbys of b12 and/or beef liver which worked for years now cause me extreme sweating, dizziness, and etc. so I was forced to remove them, which leaves me in a perpetual 'crashed' like state.

Affects were rapid after first ingestion of 5 drops - within a few minutes I felt a noticeable improvement, so much so I thought I must be imagining it. I continued 5 drops 3x per day for 2 days, then upped to 15 drops 3x per day for the last 3 days.

The positive effects are continuing so far. A noticeable boost in energy with reduced brain fog. Body/joint pain remains unchanged. Waking up in the morning is much easier now. I plan to continue treatment with MB with the expectation it will eventually wear off, or cause a side effect such that I am forced to stop some time down the road.

Overall, little if any difference noted between 5 and 15 drops per dose, except blue urine (try explaining that to the wife - some things are better to keep to yourself).

Other things I am in the middle of include removing all sugar, removing histamine foods, and gluten. These 3 are all long term projects that I expect will take months to see the impact of. So far, after a month or so doing these things, I noticed no improvement. So the MB was a very welcome addition, allowing me to feel strong enough to continue through the challenges it takes to stay on these 3 projects.

I want to thank you all for what I hope is a new standard in my treatment protocol. I am praying it continues to help in the mild but appreciable way it has thus far.

-Ken

 

[hapl808]

The positive effects are continuing so far. A noticeable boost in energy with reduced brain fog. Body/joint pain remains unchanged. Waking up in the morning is much easier now. I plan to continue treatment with MB with the expectation it will eventually wear off, or cause a side effect such that I am forced to stop some time down the road.

Please keep us updated. I tried at a lower dosage, but temporarily paused and planning to revisit. Very curious if noticeable health effects remain consistent.

Does anyone know if mixed methylene blue breaks down quickly in visible light? I have it mixed in a glass mason jar on the kitchen counter with a sealed lid. Not sure if it loses significant potency in light over the course of a month or two?

So sounds like you're doing maybe 20mg per day - does that sound right?

 

[Slushiefan]

Very curious if noticeable health effects remain consistent.

Very curious of the same myself, even hopeful. If it holds out, I just shaved off a good 10-20% of the fatigue and brain fog, which is not enough to get me back to work but enough to make things more tolerable, which is very helpful.

Dosage is hard for me to calculate out in mg's, but if you did the math it is probably correct.

I just put mine in a small plastic squeeze bottle with a pointy dropper top, this type is typically used in labs for reagents, I do keep it closed in a dark cabinet.

 

[hapl808]

For anyone else doing the math, here's my thought process. Keep in mind this depends on Slushiefan's numbers, and my own admittedly fogged brain, so do your own diligence. This is just my own rough guess at his concentration and may or may not be accurate. (Concentrations are easy to mess up, so be warned when making your own solution.)

1g = 1000mg
mixed in 100ml of water is 10mg per ml of liquid
approximately 20 drops in 1ml of liquid (very rough estimate)
so this is 0.5mg per drop

 

[Wayne]

so this is 0.5mg per drop

Hi @hapl808 -- That's precisely what's in the table at this post. You did good!!!

 

[Slushiefan]

Here is the bottle I used, and some mixing guidance.

The bottles are 50ml each. I used 2 for 100ml. I didn't connect the syringe. I can turn the bottle sideways and gently squeeze out one drop at a time.

This is a direct link to the bottle on Amazon, available in the US (no referrer link): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VVCCHQ9/
Syringe Bottle with 20G Dispensing Needles and Cap (50ml Dispensing Bottle)

The mix:

Industrial grade MB powder worked fine for me and was easy to get, and I figure this disease is taking me faster than any heavy metals that may be present. You can be more cautious with a USP or lab grade of powder.

To mix up the base dilution, I combined 100ml hot water from the electric kettle and 1gm Industrial grade Methylene Blue powder into a pyrex measuring cup, and stirred well. It mixed in completely almost immediately.

I used a gram scale (which most won't have) to measure 1gm of MB powder . I will come back to this post and add an approximate volume measurement later.

Be very very careful, the powder and concentrate stains everything, and wiping with water just spreads it out. Perform your work on a stain proof and non-absorbent surface (even my stainless steel sink stained because it was textured, as did my wife's white marble countertop - oops!).

Final dilution guidance:

I add 5-15 drops of the base dilution to cold water (no specific amount, generally about 1 cup water) in a steel cup as it washes up easier - glass should work as well. It will definitely stain plastic. Don't forget the rinse will probably stain your sink so run your water continuously while rinsing.

The final diluted drink is very dark blue and highly bitter, and you will probably worry that you just poisoned yourself at the first taste - I know I did. This will mean you probably did it right. The safety factor is very high with MB, I couldn't find anything that indicated an overdose amount, so it seems an overdose is hard to do.

I read on-line that Vitamin C as Ascorbic Acid removes the color and it should still work the same.

-Ken

 

[lyran]

I'm also trialing methylene blue. Started at one drop of 0.5mg tincture solution and increased daily. At 6-7 drops it seems to make me feel worse for the whole day. I have read that it is such a potent detoxification agent that pwME may only handle a tiny dose of it.

 

[hapl808]

I'm also trialing methylene blue. Started at one drop of 0.5mg tincture solution and increased daily. At 6-7 drops it seems to make me feel worse for the whole day. I have read that it is such a potent detoxification agent that pwME may only handle a tiny dose of it.

Keep in mind that 6-7 drops is not a tiny dose.

The range tends to be from 60mcg (more for nootropic benefits supposedly) up to 10mg-20mg type range for anti-pathogen dosage. I felt it (not a great feeling) even at 10mcg. I'm planning to revisit it, but been trying a few other things first.

 

[lyran]

I forgot to mention that when I reached 6 drops of methylene blue for the first time, the effect was very pronounced: for the whole day it gave me calmness and energy and I could breath better but that was only once. I haven't been able to repeat those effects.

 

[almost]

A note of caution:
I took @Learner1 's suggestion and had my G6PD levels checked (results not back yet). In researching this, I found methylene blue contraindicated for those positive for G6PD deficiency. So, something to think about and possibly check before diving into this.

Methylene blue is an effective treatment for reducing MetHb however, it is associated with adverse reactions in glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD)-deficient individuals (Table 1). Drug labels for methylene blue contraindicate or advise precaution for use in G6PD-deficient individuals due to a risk of hemolytic anemia and/or methemoglobinemia [1-3]. Three hundred and thirty million individuals are estimated to have a deficiency in the G6PD enzyme, with the highest prevalence found in Africa, the Middle East, and Asia [48]. G6PD-deficient individuals are more susceptible to RBC oxidative stress induced by exogenous agents such as therapeutic drugs because reduced nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADPH) production cannot meet the demand required by regulatory mechanisms

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4091817/

Thank you again to @Learner1 , and to @Wayne for this thread. Very helpful.

P.S. High dose Vitamin C is also contraindicated for G6PD as noted by Learner.

 

[lyran]

Methylene Blue (I think I took 5 or 6 drops in the morning) triggered me into adrenal crisis. Probably not a good supplement for those who have low cortisol issues.

 

[Hoosierfans]

Oh no! Are you feeling better?

Methylene Blue (I think I took 5 or 6 drops in the morning) triggered me into adrenal crisis. Probably not a good supplement for those who have low cortisol issues.

Starting my experiment w MB today. Starting at 1 drop 2 x day.