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Methylene Blue -- The "Perfect Supplement" For ME/CFS (?)

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
195
Location
France
I'm going to try this. I have a big suspicion lack of oxygen, somewhere (prob the brain) is a chief problem in my CFS/brain fog endeavor. I've got one on Amazon (France) that's 1% concentration but "industrial" as opposed to "medicinal"... wonder if that changes anything or if MB is just MB and works the same regardless.

There's another one that's 98.5% concentration (!) so I'd need to mix like one drop in a gallon of water or sth, but it'd be really cheap to get that, wonder if it would work fine.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,205
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Deep breathing 5 mins via YouTube video brought it down to 139/79
Hi @brenda, happy to see your BP came down after some deep breathing. Sounds like it was higher than normal. If so, do you think the methylene blue caused it? -- Also, are you familiar with "asymmetric blood pressure? Since you'll likely be taking your blood pressure frequently, you might want to make sure you don't have this situation going on. Below is from the linked article:

Brain Symmetry​

Most people know that the left half of the body is controlled by the right side of the brain and vice versa. The reason for this asymmetry is unknown. However, asymmetry appears to be pretty important with many aspects of brain function.​
For example, I collected 17 patients, in each of whom their respective blood pressure was totally different in the two arms. The difference was so great that I imagined such an individual, when visiting a physician, would leave the office with a blood pressure pill if the pressure had been measured in the arm on the higher side, and without it if it had been taken in the arm on the low side.​
As most people know, the blood pressure is taken almost invariably in only one arm. The blood pressures in my 17 patients were compared with healthy controls. Although the pressures of controls varied only slightly in the two arms, the difference was extremely obvious when compared with the patients.​
The asymmetry in the patients was greatly exaggerated, whereas in the controls it was minimal. This asymmetry is capable of increasing in direct relationship to loss of efficient metabolism in the control mechanisms in the brain.​
The loss of efficiency may be due to genetic effect or long-term malnutrition. These 17 patients had many symptoms, indicating that their autonomic nervous system was compromised because of poor oxidative metabolism. The symptoms responded to treatment with nutritional elements.​
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,254
Location
UK
Thank you @Wayne very interesting. Yes I do think that my HBP has been caused by MB, although I have not tested it for a while and have had HBP in the past. Since taking MB, I have had sensations which made me suspicious. Of course this means I have to stop it and look for others means of reducing NO.

So I took it this morning after my lemon drink:

R 188/82 (p 71)
L 168/73 (p 66)

That's a big difference. Cheers for that information.
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,254
Location
UK
Ray Peat discussing NO with HD (Andrew Murray) from the Peat forums:

"HD: OK – All right, so, I wanted to ask you some questions about your most recent newsletter which was based on “Nitric Oxide” and hopefully open it up for people to understand the context in which we’re talking about as a product. I think, the very first question that I wanted to pose: given that the compound manufactured by Pfizer will be well-known to many, both in its generic form, and in the off-counter, or other brand label types of product, being Viagra.

Nitric oxide has a majorly vasodilatory effect, as I understand it and that's just one of them, though I guess that's mediated by Viagra, and that drug is approved as a FDA approval for erectile dysfunction. What is it about nitric oxide that makes it so dangerous and responsible for things like cardiac arrest, stroke, arrhythmias and also increased ocular pressure which most people wouldn't even associate with Viagra?

I've had several people who have used it and have had heart attack and stroke and that prompted me to even look at it as being something that should be definitely taken seriously. And I know also the kind of recreational drug users whose use poppers, exactly the same compound, has some very damaging effects on the body. What's your take on nitric oxide?

RP: Speaking of poppers, several of the early theorists of AIDS were blaming it on whatever the chemical is, I guess it's nitric oxide, that's produced from the poppers, some kind of nitric compound anyway, and they were arguing that that in itself was enough to account for the AIDS among the people who were using that as a pleasure drug.

But in the 1980s, everyone knew nitric oxide primarily as a toxic component of smog, and so when people started discovering that it was being produced in small amounts in the body, immediately they started looking for the parallels with smog poisoning: lung injury, circulatory disease and so on. And one of the first things they found was that it kills the beta cells in the pancreas that produce insulin, so in early 1940s there was this flurry of papers demonstrating that our internal smog is just as toxic as Los Angeles smog!

But then the Viagra patent and publicity came out in the later 1990s and right then suddenly the medical publications all found that it was a glorious, protective and natural or protecting just about every function you could think of, making you smarter, have more endurance and all kinds of good things. But then, after a few years, I guess the investment in publicity started wearing off and people started coming back to the diabetes-producing effects and looking at what it's actually doing biochemically.

The basic way it causes harm probably is that it is kind of parallel to the effects of carbon monoxide or cyanide, in being a competitor for oxygen in the mitochondria, the enzymes that produce most of our energy. It, in several ways, knocks out not only the key final respiratory enzyme, cytochrome oxidase, but it poisons the previous electron transporting parts of the mitochondrion too. So, simply turning off the energy supply can account for a lot of its problems. But it also, when you're stopping the oxidative run through the mitochondrion, as the mitochondrion starts leaking in effect electrons that have no place to go, and the whole cell shifts over to a reduced chemical state.

That the electrons aren't being constantly drawn down and so the balance, if you imagine a stream of electrons falling steadily towards oxygen, when you cut off that, they accumulate and float back and literally the reducing environment shifts the whole balance of the self-reduced sulphur compounds and it's expressed all the way out to the surface, and the surface properties of the cell change, and there are some enzymes right across the surface, so this reducing the energy from energy inside the cell is available to reduce oxygen outside the cells since the mitochondria aren't using it productively. In fact this cloud of excess electrons flows through the enzyme called NADPH-oxidase and directly reduces oxygen on the surface.

And that produces super oxide; a possibly toxic free radical that’s then produces hydrogen peroxide. And in the immune cells that are under stress, that's considered productive because it helps to break down bacteria or whatever is exciting/disturbing the white blood cell. So this toxic, oxidative burst has its useful aspects but probably it’s one of the better outcomes rather than just using the hydrogen peroxide directly, or producing nitric oxide, this hydrogen peroxide can be used to oxidise chloride that is always present into hyperchloride which becomes one of the very strong germ digesting chemicals that when a phagocyte has eaten something then it's basically like “chlorox”, it helps to break down the particle." https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/nitric-oxide-kmud-2014.5532/

I don't know whether non members can access it anymore as they have introduced a membership fee.
 
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Artemisia

Senior Member
Messages
119
It's on my list to try. I had heard Ray Peat talk about it years ago, and I tried it back around 2014 to no effect, but would like to give it another shot.
 

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
195
Location
France
I ordered the drops that Wayne bought on Amazon, I'm going to try it!
Same. Got em, 1% concentration. Starting tomorrow. It's NOT pharmaceutical grade though, but I don't care. Dr. Myhill and others have said that didn't matter, it's essentially the exact same formula whatever you get.
Anyways, let's head back here and write our progression every now and then.

DOSAGE: Based on what I've been reading, I think I'll be starting with 3 drops in a glass of water. Check if I haven't died. If I haven't, up that to 5 drops the next day. Gradually work it up til I feel a benefit or, at least, some sort of obviously noticeable effect from the MB.
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
DOSAGE: Based on what I've been reading, I think I'll be starting with 3 drops in a glass of water. Check if I haven't died. If I haven't, up that to 5 drops the next day. Gradually work it up til I feel a benefit or, at least, some sort of obviously noticeable effect from the MB.

Personally, I will probably start with 1 drop at most - just because why not? There are some dosage ranges in the mcg and some in the mg, so 1mg is already higher than some dosages and lower than others.
 

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
195
Location
France
Personally, I will probably start with 1 drop at most - just because why not?
Why not ? Coz I'm DYING to find a supp that'll actually make me feel sth, that's why not !

I mean what's the worst that could happen. I might start developing fish-like features (as this stuff is used for aquariums mostly), but I don't think I'll be turning into a full fish with a few drops of this.

Anyways some people build up to many dozens of drops per day. But not on the first day, no.
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
Why not ? Coz I'm DYING to find a supp that'll actually make me feel sth, that's why not !

Haha, true. To each their own. I sometimes react to things longer term, so I'm usually very cautious with my initial dosages. Doesn't matter if it's rx'ed by my physician or scraped out of my fish tank. :) Although I trust most fish tanks more than most hedge fund operated 'nonprofit' hospitals, so…
 

gm286

Senior Member
Messages
145
Location
Atlanta, GA
Have been trying MB for several weeks now. Just checking in to report a super rare side-effect of it causing sweet / fruity / maple syrupy like odor in my sweat + urine.

This has not been reported anywhere else aside for a single other post on FB. I don't have MSUD (maple syrup urine disease -- at the very least, my amino acid levels measure normal), nor am I diabetic. Wonder if it is revealing something deeper related to a kidney problem.

I do have high Xanthurenic acid (a Kynurenine marker). No Xanthine oxidase deficiency on my genetics and no molybdenum deficiency. Must be another obvious clue that, due to this illness, my organs are all hypoactive.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,205
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Have been trying MB for several weeks now. Just checking in to report a super rare side-effect of it causing sweet / fruity / maple syrupy like odor in my sweat + urine.

Thanks for sharing your experience @gm286. I have a good friend who's really noticed better energy and mental clarity from taking MB. But, so far, it seems that when he takes 20 drops/day or more, he ends up getting a turpentine taste in his mouth. As soon as he quits it, it goes away. So it would seem he has a pretty clear marker as to when he's taken too much.

I tend to get a headache when taking more than my body wants. That usually starts around 15 drops/day. As soon as I back off, it goes away. I suspect everybody will eventually be able to recognizie when they're gone over their "sweet spot". Though I can see where it might change from day to day and week to week. My body is pretty content these days on about 9-12 drops/day.
 

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
195
Location
France
Hey. I've been on MB 1% liquid form for a few days now. I started with 3 drops, didn't feel anything, so I'm up to about 20-25 drops a day here. I'm having trouble understanding how much I should take as most websites talk about the powder form and mg. I have no clue how many milligrams one drop of this product is.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,205
Location
Ashland, Oregon
I'm having trouble understanding how much I should take as most websites talk about the powder form and mg. I have no clue how many milligrams one drop of this product is.

Hi @Jo86 -- The basic formula: 1 drop = .5 mg.

Below is a table I ran across several times. I think the "suggestions" are on the high side, especially for pw/ME/CFS who often have very sensitive systems. I'd say I'm taking about 10-15% of what it recommends:

DOSING FOR METHYLENE BLUE 1% SOLUTION

Body Weight: 50 kg/110 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 25 mg/day or 50 drops/day​
Body Weight: 55 kg/121 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 27.5 mg/day or 55 dr/day​
Body Weight: 60 kg/132 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 30 mg/day or 60 drops/day​
Body Weight: 65 kg/143 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 32.5 mg/day or 65 dr/day​
Body Weight: 70 kg/154 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 35 mg/day or 70 drops/day​
Body Weight: 75 kg/165 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 37.5 mg/day or 75 dr/day​
Body Weight: 80 kg/176 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 40 mg/day or 80 drops​
Body Weight: 85 kg/187 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 42.5 mg/day or 85 dr/day​
Body Weight: 90 kg/198 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 45 mg/day or 90 drops/day​
Body Weight: 95 kg/209 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 47.5 mg/day or 95 dr/day​
Body Weight: 100 kg/220 lbs: 0.5 mg/kg dose = 50 mg/day or 100 drops/day.​
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,268
Location
Great Lakes
I want to try Methylene Blue. When I run the interaction checkers on drugs.com and hellopharmacist neither indicate an issue.

However this site: https://www.apsf.org/article/methylene-blue-and-the-risk-of-serotonin-toxicity/
says that Methylene Blue is a "potent MAO inhibitor" and this site says MAOIs are one of the medications to be avoided while on Metoprolol. https://www.goodrx.com/metoprolol/interactions

"MAOIs can interact with metoprolol. They can raise the risk of low blood pressure (hypotension) and low heart rate (bradycardia)."

I'm already having a problem on Metoprolol with low bp. It's one of the reasons I'm seriously thinking of weaning off of it but just wanted to put this out there for anyone else who might be on a similar medication and who may have checked the interaction checkers thinking everything will be okay with their med and MB.

Sorry, if this was already something mentioned in this thread. I think I read the whole thread but I can't remember if this med was specifically mentioned. I think SRRIs were. Too brain foggy to read back through it again right now.
 
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Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
195
Location
France
This isn't to discourage anyone from trying. Heck, it's really safe, MB. And cheap. Some people even inject it straight intro-veinously as Dr.Myhill mentions for eg.

But it hasn't worked for me. I've been on it for more than a month. I've even gone as far as trying doubling the daily dose. So, they say you should drink 1 drop of 1% diluted solution per kilo (body weight), so I'm 75kg and so I drink 75 drops (or 14ml of solution) per day, and I tried 28 ml earlier today to no avail. Don't worry about the blue tongue, it goes away during the day.

But MB is a known mitochondrial booster, and I don't know what is blocking anything from boosting mine, but they're sure doing an amazing job. Nothing I take works (MB, NADH, all kinds of vitamins...). Sth is blocking the pathway that would typically make me feel the effect.