The majority of people with ME/CFS do worse with alcohol after developing the disease. (See this poll, for example.) And I previously mentioned here one possibility for this which is related to S1P and phospholipase D (PLD).@nandixon I'm curious, have you ever investigated acute alcohols influence on S1PR2?
The majority of people with ME/CFS do worse with alcohol after developing the disease. (See this poll, for example.) And I previously mentioned here one possibility for this which is related to S1P and phospholipase D (PLD).
Specifically with respect to acute alcohol ingestion, this is likely to be even worse for most people with ME/CFS and I personally wouldn't distinguish this. As far as your implication as to how a small subset of ME/CFS patients seem to benefit from this acute ingestion, I don't know.
With respect to FXR, since alcohol antagonizes this enzyme, and since inhibition of FXR leads to decreased synthesis of ceramides - from which S1P is made - then that seems consistent under a simplistic version of my model for alcohol making ME/CFS symptoms worse:
Inhibited FXR-->Low ceramides-->Low S1P/Impaired S1P signaling-->Under-activated Akt/mTORC1 pathway-->Impaired PDH complex (Fluge & Mella)
(It's getting too far off topic, but one research group in south Florida seems to be focused on how S1P can be useful with respect to protection or restoration of blood brain barrier (BBB) damage caused by alcohol, so the corollary for people with ME/CFS would be that not having enough S1P would make us more vulnerable to that damage. (E.g., reference.) So this might be an additional/alternative mechanism for the bad effects of alcohol in addition to what I mentioned about the PLD enzyme.)
Since conjugated bile acids might possibly be playing a helpful role in alleviating the symptoms of ME/CFS, one experiment perhaps to try is to see whether supplementing these in combination with a bacterial bile salt hydrolase (BSH) inhibitor might be helpful. The BSH inhibitor would slow the de-conjugation/degradation of those bile acids by the relevant bacteria (e.g., Lactobacillus species but also others) and give them a longer life in the intestinal tract. This might give a similar effect as an antibiotic but without the harsh effect on the microbiome.So the favorable antibiotic effect sometimes seen in ME/CFS, assuming it's due to an increase in conjugated bile acids, might actually potentially be due to increased agonism of the S1PR2 receptor.
I wonder if people who drink a lot daily, especially older adults, have a similar lack of energy due to impaired PDH? My observation of such people is that they nap often. This may be due to hangovers and the body trying to detox but couldn't there also be a low energy state due to impaired PDH functioning?
Since conjugated bile acids might possibly be playing a helpful role in alleviating the symptoms of ME/CFS, one experiment perhaps to try is to see whether supplementing these in combination with a bacterial bile salt hydrolase (BSH) inhibitor might be helpful. The BSH inhibitor would slow the de-conjugation/degradation of those bile acids by the relevant bacteria (e.g., Lactobacillus species but also others) and give them a longer life in the intestinal tract. This might give a similar effect as an antibiotic but without the harsh effect on the microbiome.
Conjugated bile acids are the forms commonly sold as bile acid supplements. Taurocholic acid is the most abundant one in humans and is an activator of S1PR2. (Conjugation just means that the acid portion of the bile acid has been reacted with the amino portion of an amino acid like taurine or glycine to combine the two together as an amide.)
A couple of known BSH inhibitors are caffeic acid phenethyl ester (CAPE) and tempol (reference). Interestingly, riboflavin (vitamin B2) is a potent BSH inhibitor. (Reference)
The idea in simple terms:
Conjugated bile acids + BSH inhibitor = effect that antibiotics are having?
That is one route. Propolis has high amounts of CAPE. I have a few ideas on how to accomplish this. Certainly bile acid therapy will play a factor. Some have tried tempol and had mixed results I wonder if pairing this with a BSH inhibitor may provide better results. I bigger part of me feels that Propolis and riboflavin may not be strong enough.
I use propolis daily and if I take too much my belly hurts badly (around the spleen zone I think) and I get worse. But it is one of the best things I've found for Multiple Chemical Sensivity crisis.
Xifaxin/Tudca/ enteragam
Have all proven very beneficial in my case. I have a history of pain in my gallbladder, liver area since my disease started.
Idk how this fits into your theory but thought I'd throw it out there.
Interestingly, I just read that SCFAs enhance mTOR activity. This ties in well with gut dysbiosis and the microbiome being involved in this disease.
That's what Ken Lassesen believes as well. Mitochondrial problems -- in his view -- come as a result of a microbiome shift.
https://cfsremission.com/2017/01/09/cfs-is-not-a-mitochondrial-dysfunction/
A commentary from Roerick et al. (Including van der Meer) has been published here
Hope this isn't too off-topic, but I just wanted to make sure that Tunguska's post way up thread linking to a paper suggesting that opioids increase mTOR signalling didn't get lost in such a long thread given the substantial subgroup of us who find opioids improve functional capacity. Would think it would be of particular interest to @nandixon @Hip and maybe @Marco
it will probably ultimately be best to address what's actually causing the low levels of S1P (if they are low, for example) as far upstream as possible, e.g., perhaps by fixing an inhibited/under-activated farnesoid X receptor (FXR) (this is one possible explanation for the low ceramides that Naviaux found in his study, and S1P is made from ceramides).