Mental health: Is ME/CFS Brain Fog consistent with an Attention Deficit Disorder?

pattismith

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This question came to my mind after a neuropsy consultation when he made the hypothesis I was an undiagnosed ADHD with iron deficiency from childhood...
I'm not sure if I am really concerned but I wish to learn more about that trouble.

ADHD patient can be either Hyperactive either Inattentive either a mix...
But it is considered a development disorder and must began in chilhood.

The inattentive form of ADHD is also known as attention deficit disorder (ADD). ADD can sometimes go unnoticed because the symptoms may be less obvious.

In some cases, an adult may be diagnosed with ADHD if they have 5 or more of the symptoms of inattentiveness,.....

Inattentiveness
The main signs of inattentiveness are:

  • having a short attention span and being easily distracted
  • making careless mistakes – for example, in schoolwork
  • appearing forgetful or losing things
  • being unable to stick to tasks that are tedious or time-consuming
  • appearing to be unable to listen to or carry out instructions
  • constantly changing activity or task
  • having difficulty organising tasks

Some specialists have suggested the following as a list of symptoms associated with ADHD in adults: (I kept the inattentive signs only)

  • carelessness and lack of attention to detail
  • continually starting new tasks before finishing old ones
  • poor organisational skills
  • inability to focus or prioritise
  • continually losing or misplacing things
  • forgetfulness


Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) - Diagnosis - NHS (www.nhs.uk)
 

Starsister

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@pattismith My brother is ADHD and I also work with lots of folks with ADHD and have started recognizing some things of myself in them. I’ve had more overt symptoms of ME for 40 years and have noted a morphing or evolution of symptoms over the years. The last few years noting more traits of adhd… and other neurological symptoms. I’ve just chalked mine up to the degenerative neurological damage of the ME. That’s not to say your traits may have been with you prior to ME.
 
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I think its because its concentrating on a topic or thought generates an energetic cost of some type. I can think about simple matters in brief ways, but to sit down and ponder a complex topic and stay focused on it, we lose our focus.

So in the midst of some multi sentence paragraph I often abruptly can't continue thinking about it or reading it.

I have no problem answering a short question. I seem to recall somebody's name or titles of things, without much problem.

Organizing is nearly impossible for me now. Five years ago, I knew where every folder was from a thirty year career and whats inside each folder and I"d recall that project is 87,292 acres. I had a calendar of appointments I never needed to look at it.

Now, I proofread a sentence, post it, and there is is with mistakes. For years I found everybody else's mistakes.

All that list is what life is like now. And if I move something, oh wow thats horrifically dangerous.
 
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I had a very good ability to focus before I was ill. I could study for hours at a time and did best focusing exclusively on one thing.

The people I know with ADHD describe it like their minds are doing several things at once, whereas with brain fog my brain has gone from being able to do 1 thing to doing less than 1 thing.

To me it seems the opposite of ADHD, being an undefiring mind instead of overfiring.
 

ljimbo423

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I think its because its concentrating on a topic or thought generates an energetic cost of some type. I can think about simple matters in brief ways, but to sit down and ponder a complex topic and stay focused on it, we lose our focus.
This makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe the same thing is happening in ADHD. There's a lack of energy for the brain cells, causing inattentiveness and being easily distracted.

Maybe that's why amphetamines help people with ADHD focus. It gives there brain the energy it needs to work better.
 

lenora

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With my daughter it was ADHD until she probably reached her 20's. Now it's more ADD but she takes charge of it and even sees a special counselor. We started her with one many years ago, but she now sees a woman.

ADD or even ADHD is often described this way (which I found helpful to know): Three things can be happening at once: The boss may be on the line, a car or truck passing by and a bird on the fence. People with ADD have no way of filtering out what the necessary one is...their attention is totally scattered. Often they aren't easy to live with....directions must be given one at a time or nothing will happen. I made that mistake with my daughter....and then I learned.

Today there are newsletters, probably sites on the computer even, but at that time we had nothing. After she graduated from college, we had plans to write a book together b/c people don't know about both sides of the story. I would tell mine and she would answer it in the way she understood. But then a boyfriend came along......! It would have been extremely helpful to others at the time.

I have since been "lucky" enough to face something like or similar to ADD myself. I'm glad that I had the chance to learn it firsthand. It was very frustrating, but I learned so much from the experience. Our brains work in so many different ways. She was capable of hyper-focusing which probably saved her. Able to hone in on the slightest thing and have an answer for it....but overall, it was difficult, to say the least. I couldn't trust her to even cross the street until she was 13.

She's 50 now and still sees the counselor, but handles things beautifully. She has learned how to control it instead of the other way around. I leave it up to hear to tell me what she is/isn't going about it. It did help when she recognized it herself and made every effort to change things. To be honest, I don't think she could have without a counselor. That experience changed all of us and made my husband far more involved . She works fulltime, does best on her own and has been very successful....so have hope, but work with your child and have private testing done. The schools still "lose" the results....even today. Yours, Lenora.
 

Emmarose47

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Thanks for this Patti I'm currently looking to get ADHD assessment as a 48 yr old .
When I look back over my life I'm seeing more and more my traits .
I'm currently reading ' driven to distraction it's a really great read written by a specialist psychiatrist who comes across as very caring . There are many accounts of people's experiences and histories with symptoms it's v liberating. .
Oh also how coaching and counselling are such an important part for managing and living a good life
 

pattismith

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Thanks for this Patti I'm currently looking to get ADHD assessment as a 48 yr old .
When I look back over my life I'm seeing more and more my traits .
I'm currently reading ' driven to distraction it's a really great read written by a specialist psychiatrist who comes across as very caring . There are many accounts of people's experiences and histories with symptoms it's v liberating. .
Oh also how coaching and counselling are such an important part for managing and living a good life
it's important to read also how ADHD can be different for girls, here an article about it

ADHD in girls: How is it different? 2019 article | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums
...
 

Learner1

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ADHD can be related to a dysfunctional microbiome and malabsorption. So can brain fog.

"Current Evidence on the Role of the Gut Microbiome in ADHD Pathophysiology and Therapeutic Implications" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7830868/

"Gut microbiota from persons with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder affects the brain in mice | Microbiome | Full Text" https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00816-x

"The Potential Influence of the Bacterial Microbiome on the Development and Progression of ADHD" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6893446/

"Human gut microbiome changes during a 10 week Randomised Control Trial for micronutrient supplementation in children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder | Scientific Reports" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-46146-3

"A Gut Feeling: A Hypothesis of the Role of the Microbiome in Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorders - Xue Ming, Neil Chen, Carly Ray, Gretchen Brewer, Jeffrey Kornitzer, Robert A. Steer, 2018" https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2329048X18786799

"There’s a Good Chance Your Gut Health Is to Blame for Your Brain Fog | Observer" https://observer.com/2017/07/gut-health-brain-fog-microbiome-connection/amp/

"How to Get Rid of Brain Fog: Your Action Plan" https://drruscio.com/how-to-get-rid-of-brain-fog/

New Optimum Nutrition for the Mind https://www.amazon.com/dp/1591202590/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_NNZV50CYR7GP464BVNPE
 

lenora

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My husband, I'm convinced is hyperactive. Does he have ADHD in the usual way....no, I wouldn't say that. But the energy this man has is beyond incredible. I've talked to him, he went to the counselor for our daughter and now takes time to read and actually finish a book. I let him "run" all day, but the second he stops, he falls asleep. This is rather typical ADHD behavior. But I'm willing to put up with this because he's a genuinely kind and nice person and tries very hard to be a good influence in this world.

I had teachers calling in tears about my daughter's behavior. This can't be ignored and wasn't for effect on the teachers part. It began in her early years of education. With my other daughter....nothing. The teachers loved her and couldn't believe they were sisters. My daughter changed b/c first of all, I reinforced the qualities she needed. Her hands were a constant problem, so I told her she either had to fold them or sit on them...it worked. Just a small thing.....but! Sometimes small things can make a huge difference.


To be honest, I never though I'd get her out of 8th grade. It was like a horse down on 4 legs and I had to drag this animal. She graduated from a fine high-school and university, though not without troubles along the way.
I can remember saying that "She didn't have a screw top on her head where I could just pour in motivation....she had to find that for herself." And we discussed ways to go about it. These children need help in order for them to stay away from the bad side of life. Sure, she didn't always like me....but isn't that part of being a parent? We're very close now but she's 50 yrs. of age. People are naturally drawn to her b/c of her wonderful sense of humor and she raised her children well. She more or less works by herself, but is part of a company. That's a successful person in my book.
 
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Emmarose47

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ADHD can be related to a dysfunctional microbiome and malabsorption. So can brain fog.

"Current Evidence on the Role of the Gut Microbiome in ADHD Pathophysiology and Therapeutic Implications" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7830868/

"Gut microbiota from persons with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder affects the brain in mice | Microbiome | Full Text" https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00816-x

"The Potential Influence of the Bacterial Microbiome on the Development and Progression of ADHD" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6893446/

"Human gut microbiome changes during a 10 week Randomised Control Trial for micronutrient supplementation in children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder | Scientific Reports" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-46146-3

"A Gut Feeling: A Hypothesis of the Role of the Microbiome in Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorders - Xue Ming, Neil Chen, Carly Ray, Gretchen Brewer, Jeffrey Kornitzer, Robert A. Steer, 2018" https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2329048X18786799

"There’s a Good Chance Your Gut Health Is to Blame for Your Brain Fog | Observer" https://observer.com/2017/07/gut-health-brain-fog-microbiome-connection/amp/

"How to Get Rid of Brain Fog: Your Action Plan" https://drruscio.com/how-to-get-rid-of-brain-fog/

New Optimum Nutrition for the Mind https://www.amazon.com/dp/1591202590/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_NNZV50CYR7GP464BVNPE
Thanks learner ...
I don't have capacity to read the articles but I do want to start looking at my gut health ...I wonder if u could.pm me with some simple guidelines as.to how I can attend to my.gut health