ME/CFS: The Human Herpesviruses Are Back! (Ariza, 2021)

[Pyrrhus]

Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: The Human Herpesviruses Are Back! (Ariza, 2021)
https://www.mdpi.com/2218-273X/11/2/185

Excerpt:

Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) or Systemic Exertion Intolerance Disease (SEID) is a chronic multisystem illness of unconfirmed etiology. There are currently no biomarkers and/or signatures available to assist in the diagnosis of the syndrome and while numerous mechanisms have been hypothesized to explain the pathology of ME/CFS, the triggers and/or drivers remain unknown.

Initial studies suggested a potential role of the human herpesviruses especially Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) in the disease process but inconsistent and conflicting data led to the erroneous suggestion that these viruses had no role in the syndrome.

New studies using more advanced approaches have now demonstrated that specific proteins encoded by EBV could contribute to the immune and neurological abnormalities exhibited by a subgroup of patients with ME/CFS. Elucidating the role of these herpesvirus proteins in ME/CFS may lead to the identification of specific biomarkers and the development of novel therapeutics.

(spacing added for readability)

 

[Pyrrhus]

And here is a news article about author Maria Ariza's studies on the role of dUTPase in the development of Alzheimers disease:
https://www.idsafoundation.org/news/general/2601/

 

[Pyrrhus]

Also by Maria Ariza:

Antibody to Epstein-Barr Virus Deoxyuridine Triphosphate Nucleotidohydrolase and Deoxyribonucleotide Polymerase in a Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Subset (Lerner et al., 2012)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...or-some-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-cases.20431/

Herpesviruses dUTPases: A New Family of Pathogen-Associated Molecular Pattern (PAMP) Proteins with Implications for Human Disease (Williams et al., 2016)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...cations-for-human-diseases.48562/

ME/CFS and Gulf War Illness patients exhibit increased humoral responses to the Herpesviruses-encoded dUTPase: Implications in disease pathophysiology. (Halpin et al., 2017)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...pesviruses-encoded-dutpase.50045/

Epstein-Barr Virus dUTPase Induces Neuroinflammatory Mediators: Implications for ME/CFS (Williams et al., 2019)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...tory-mediators-implications-for-me-cfs.76123/

 

[Pyrrhus]

And let's not forget the other current research efforts on herpesviruses:

Human Herpesvirus-6 Reactivation, Mitochondrial Fragmentation, and the Coordination of Antiviral and Metabolic Phenotypes in ME/CFS (Schreiner, Harrer, Scheibenbogen, Lamer, Schlosser, Naviaux, and Prusty, 2020)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...agmentation-paper-pub-4-1-20-dr-prusty.79891/

Cytomegalovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, and human herpesvirus-6 infections in patients with ME/CFS (Shikova et al., 2020)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...und-in-large-me-cfs-study.80706/#post-2285664

Salivary DNA loads for human herpes viruses 6 and 7 are correlated with disease phenotype in ME/CFS (Lee et al. 2021)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ase-phenotype-in-me-cfs-lee-et-al-2021.82801/

 

[Pyrrhus]

Here's a press release that accompanied this paper:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/ohio-state-dutpase-biomarker-announcement.82996/

..and here's another short thread on this paper:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/cfs-new-findings-about-human-herpesviruses-ebv-hhv-6.83046/

 

[Pyrrhus]

New publication by Maria Ariza:

EBV/HHV-6A dUTPases contribute to ME/CFS pathophysiology by enhancing TFH cell differentiation and extrafollicular activities (Cox et al., 2022)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...hancing-tfh-cell-differ-cox-et-al-2022.87590/

 

[Treeman]

@Pyrrhus why is it so difficult to create a drug to knock out the herpes viruses? Do they believe they may also play a positive role too?

 

[Pyrrhus]

@Pyrrhus why is it so difficult to create a drug to knock out the herpes viruses?

The herpesviruses can hide from the effect of a drug by going into a "latent state". Unfortunately, current drugs are only effective when the virus exits the latent state and "re-activates".

The drugs are certainly helpful for treating re-activations of a herpesvirus, but they do not eliminate the virus from the body.

Do they believe they may also play a positive role too?

I have never heard anyone theorize about herpesviruses playing a positive role in the body.

But nature can be full of surprises...

 

[Treeman]

The herpesviruses can hide from the effect of a drug by going into a "latent state". Unfortunately

I have a memory of reading/listening to a scientist saying they could target a drug to be effective for an ancient part of the RNA which would be common in the herpes virus to knock them all out. Would this type of research be overly expensive, from our points and the rest of the world's this would be good and save billions every year. I watched a video that once said that valcyclovier for cold sores in the USA costs $4 billion a year.

 

[Boba]

The drugs are certainly helpful for treating re-activations of a herpesvirus, but they do not eliminate the virus from the body

Meganuclease is a technology which is able to eliminate HSV. They are studying rn and were able to eliminate 95% of the viral load in mice. This is very promising research from Dr. Keith Jerome, but won’t be available the next 5 years, studies are in work.

 

[Treeman]

Meganuclease is a technology which is able to eliminate HSV. They are studying rn and were able to eliminate 95% of the viral load in mice. This is very promising research from Dr. Keith Jerome, but won’t be available the next 5 years, studies are in work.

A recent interview with Dr Keith Jerome

What If We Could Finally Cure Herpes? This Scientist Is on the Case (thebody.com)

 

[Irat]

I think the viral theory in me/cfs is a red herring and believe in the other theory that they are there as a clean up crew for decompose material

This theory says that
that they are a soap or a solvent. They are protein waste products in solvent solution. Each cell in our body makes them naturally to dissolve certain tissues in the body that are too toxic for the parasites, the bacteria, and the fungus to eat. Viruses are the hazmat cleanup crew of the immune system. White blood cells, T-cells, macrophages, cytokines, exosomes, and other key immune system helpers can be killed from extreme toxicity such as heavy metals and radiation from chemotherapy, EMF's, X-rays.,trauma,stress,physical injury,or even an inner conflict. When that occurs, it's viruses to the rescue. all viruses are good viruses and are manufactured within each cell as soaps or solvents to serve specific functions when needed. Working in conjunction with the other helper cells, these cleanup crews detoxify the cells from environmental toxin inundation and, just like laundry soap encapsulates dirt in the fabric of clothes so the dirt can be removed in the rinse cycle, viruses encapsulate the cellular waste products and help slip slide it to the lymphatic system for excretion through the urine, feces, sweat, and exhalation. The fever associated with the flu is an immune response to speed up circulation since viruses are not alive and have no independent form of locomotion. Rarely do we have more than three viral “infections” or detoxifications occurring at the same time.

 

[Boba]

I think the viral theory in me/cfs is a red herring and believe in the other theory that they are there as a clean up crew for decompose material for a reason

This theory says that
that they are a soap or a solvent. They are protein waste products in solvent solution. Each cell in our body makes them naturally to dissolve certain tissues in the body that are too toxic for the parasites, the bacteria, and the fungus to eat. Viruses are the hazmat cleanup crew of the immune system. White blood cells, T-cells, macrophages, cytokines, exosomes, and other key immune system helpers can be killed from extreme toxicity such as heavy metals and radiation from chemotherapy, EMF's, X-rays.,trauma,physical injury When that occurs, it's viruses to the rescue. all viruses are good viruses and are manufactured within each cell as soaps or solvents to serve specific functions when needed. Working in conjunction with the other helper cells, these cleanup crews detoxify the cells from environmental toxin inundation and, just like laundry soap encapsulates dirt in the fabric of clothes so the dirt can be removed in the rinse cycle, viruses encapsulate the cellular waste products and help slip slide it to the lymphatic system for excretion through the urine, feces, sweat, and exhalation. The fever associated with the flu is an immune response to speed up circulation since viruses are not alive and have no independent form of locomotion. Rarely do we have more than three viral “infections” or detoxifications occurring at the same time.

Is this your theory? Would u say the same for viruses we aquire? Not sure if I understand what you are writing.

 

[Irat]

No not my theories,but few others ou there

It goes like this

If you experience a prolonged time of a let's call it shock (conflict,injury,surgey,stress,toxicity,.....)shifts our body into a symphatetic state and tissue adaptation , tissue profileration....later this tissue has to be decomposed ...and this is the job of bacterias,fungus and viruses .now we are diagnosed with a vius or bacterial overgrowth,

They are also seasonal workers,which means when we get a cold or a flu it means that there is tissue to be decomposed.

like a dead tree that is covered in fungus


@Boba

 

[Boba]

No not my theories,but few others ou there

It goes like this

If you experience a prolonged time of a let's call it shock (conflict,injury,surgey,stress,toxicity,.....)shifts our body into a symphatetic state and tissue adaptation , tissue profileration....later this tissue has to be decompose ...and this is the job of bacterias,fungus and viruses .now we are diagnosed with a vius or bacterial overgrowth,

They are also seasonal workers,which means when we get a cold or a flu it means that there is tissue to be decomposed.

like a dead tree that is covered in fungus


@Boba

Thanks for the explanation. Would u mind sharing a source for this theory? I’m interested in digging deeper into it. I had an episode of stress due to work and smoking cessation which left me in a hyper arousal state. I never bounced back and became bedridden after covid.

 

[Irat]

Thanks for the explanation. Would u mind sharing a source for this theory? I’m interested in digging deeper into it. I had an episode of stress due to work and smoking cessation which left me in a hyper arousal state. I never bounced back and became bedridden after covid.

Sure

German new medicine....you tube videos and FB group Dr. Melissa sell,how to heal from chronic illness
Founder is Dr.Hammer

Aajonus vonderplanitz on viruses
https://cv19news.wixsite.com/main/post/how-you-get-a-virus-with-aajonus-vonderplanitz

Daniel ,s channel and free aligned programme

And just everything else that addresses the root cause of chronic illness,like somatic experience ,TMS Dr.Sarno ,ANS rewiring programme....which all adreses the autonomic nervous system overdrive,just need to find whats right for you )

But that's my opinion and that's how I m healing ,good luck

 

[godlovesatrier]

I really think ebv explains so many of my symptoms. I did very well on Famvir and Valtrex. Did Famvir for 16 days, induced bad tonsillitis and then after that throat symptoms were almost gone, just sore throat. Since then took valtrex for about 9 days and sore throat vanished. But the valtrex caused anaphalytic like reactions and Dr Bansal advised me to stop taking it, it also caused kidney stones (not huge but large enough to feel them stuck (sharp pain) or moving slowly through my renal system.).

Then there's the potential for antivirals to be mito toxic. 4 weeks into treatment I experienced the best 4 day consecutive activity period I'd had in about 4 years and this was in April! I took Valtrex that entire time. Had my GP check me out for kidney problems, he couldn't find anything wrong.

Anyway my point is my ebv symptoms, pharyngeal pain/redness, globous throat, sore swollen tonsils in a crash, sore throat (almost constant from February onwards) and dizziness/brain fog. All of these improved and fatigue actually dissipated within 6 hours of taking a single 500mg valtrex dose. However I believe valtrex hit ebv a lot harder than the famvir did, based on my notes.

Depends what subset you're in but I think this is me. We really need more treatment options.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I’m interested in digging deeper into it. I had an episode of stress due to work and smoking cessation which left me in a hyper arousal state. I never bounced back and became bedridden after covid.

I experienced really bad intense stress.....(I had mild ME, prior) and literally had a major worsening that transpired over almost exactly six months. At six months, I was more or less FAR FAR WORSE.

Badly timed stressors - really nail us.

 

[Boba]

I experienced really bad intense stress.....(I had mild ME, prior) and literally had a major worsening that transpired over almost exactly six months. At six months, I was more or less FAR FAR WORSE.

Badly timed stressors - really nail us.

Sorry you experienced that. I can’t get my head around the fact that stress happens to everyone, but so few get mecfs. 1 months before my health plummeted I was the happiest person and didn’t see my life as stressful. I’ve always been a sensitive person, but why do 2 weeks of stress destroy me like no one else. One feels guilty for not being able to avoid these stressors. But again, my nervous system changed after contracting HSV and HPV. We had an underlying condition, it wasn’t just the stress. Will we be able to fix that? I hope so

 

[Rufous McKinney]

But again, my nervous system changed after contracting HSV and HPV. We had an underlying condition, it wasn’t just the stress. Will we be able to fix that? I hope so

thats the thing and its not anybody's fault.

I can’t get my head around the fact that stress happens to everyone, but so few get mecfs.

Stress is somehow an exacerbation, not the cause. I was already pretty ME ridden when my horrific stressors pilled on.

We cannot forget that in the past, we lived near animals, in smokey environments, swilled ale.

Now we live in the Better Living Through Chemistry world, and it failed us. So that is lists of stressors on top of basic ones (my grandparents hid the children in the potato cellar). (Invaders coming down the chimney). Thats stressful, isn't it? (for all parties).