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ME/CFS patient goes into remission after taking "elixir of youth" GDF11

Messages
72

I totally believe you when you say that you experienced strong side effects. All what I am saying is it's possible that you are obtaining something else other than GDF11 from buckylabs or there are some impurities causing these side effects. GDF11 is not protein bound, same for most of polypeptides. The assay in the studies I linked measures serum concentration of GDF11 after centrifugation, so we are talking non-cell bound circulating GDF11. Also Hamsterman himself said that he started using NMN around the time of starting to use GDF11.

Hope you find something that works for you man, we will all be happy for you, and keep us updated on your experiments.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,946
with the LL-37, I was taking daily a very minimal dosage into belly fat. Dont have my notes on me, but basically I halved the recommended dose.

I'd be interested in the daily LL-37 dose you used, because I think I am going to try LL-37 next. I'd also like to know where you got your dosing info from, because I could not find any guidance for LL-37 dosing online.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,946
All what I am saying is it's possible that you are obtaining something else other than GDF11 from buckylabs or there are some impurities causing these side effects.

That's possible, but the same issues that you raised still applies, because whatever it was that I received from Buckylabs in the tiny 10 mcg speck of powder that was smaller than a sugar grain, I serially diluted that down (by about 5 orders of magnitude) so that I was giving myself picogram doses. Which is an astonishingly small amount, yet it appears to have an effect.

When I first saw this tiny speck of powder, my first thought was that this is never going to work, especially after diluting down so much. But the unpleasant overstimulation / agitation / aggression effects I got after each injection, and lasting for around 4 days, indicated that something was happening.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,946
I will say however that after the first injection, each time I'm injecting, the effects of it seem to wear off faster. I'm hoping that I can see the same positive effects as the person that went into remission after feeling no effects for 2 months.

The feeling I have is that GDF11 may be providing some of its benefits via a stimulant action on the brain, like say Ritalin which works on norepinephrine. I think this could explain the overstimulation / agitation I feel with GDF11.

So like any stimulant, perhaps there could be a tolerance build-up. Although myself I have not noticed any loss of effect over time.



Hamsterman told me yesterday that he also is now not getting the same benefits as he originally obtained with GDF11. He had around 3 or 4 weeks of feeling totally in remission (apart from some odd days of fever and malaise when he dosed the GDF11 too high). Before starting GDF11, he had moderate ME/CFS, but the GDF11 put him into remission.

He thinks he is now somewhere between mild and moderate ME/CFS, but perhaps closer to mild. However, he is also on a slightly lower dose, currently taking 60 picograms every 4 days. Whereas during his remission period, he was taking 100 picograms every 3 days.
 

sb4

Senior Member
Messages
1,664
Location
United Kingdom
@lateM98 I don't really no anything about gdf11 but if, as you say, there is a 50x difference between menopause and youth then the levels seem quite variable. It's possible this disease uses up fast or produces significantly less gdf11. In this case small amounts might make a difference.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,946
Dear Hip, thanks for posting the news about Hamsterman. This is quite a experiment :)
Can you ask Hamsterman why does he change the dose of GDF11 if there was a sign that he was diong better?

I think he is still experimenting with dose level. He's tried many different dose levels already. For Hamsterman, when the dose was higher he would get these bouts of fever and malaise (flu-like feelings), which disappeared once he lowered the dose a bit.
 
Messages
93
So just a quick update. I'm up to 330 picos/day now. I am for sure feeling the effects after injection but each time it is less and less. It is hard to explain the sensation you get. It is literally like a fog is being removed from you body. I will still have low energy and still have some issues with brain fog, but for the hours after injection it is like the extreme shittyness that my body feels at all times is suddenly gone. I wish it lasted more than a couple of hours. My hope is that I will start feeling an accumulative effect soon. I'm also hoping that I get the flu like symptoms like others have reported which could be a sign of fighting off an underlying infection.

Going to keep it at 330 picograms a day for another week and move to 440 after that.
 

Marelica

Senior Member
Messages
140
Location
Croatia
So just a quick update. I'm up to 330 picos/day now. I am for sure feeling the effects after injection but each time it is less and less. It is hard to explain the sensation you get. It is literally like a fog is being removed from you body. I will still have low energy and still have some issues with brain fog, but for the hours after injection it is like the extreme shittyness that my body feels at all times is suddenly gone. I wish it lasted more than a couple of hours. My hope is that I will start feeling an accumulative effect soon. I'm also hoping that I get the flu like symptoms like others have reported which could be a sign of fighting off an underlying infection.

Going to keep it at 330 picograms a day for another week and move to 440 after that.
Thank you for update! I wish you good result with your experiment.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,946
Two things to report:

(1) Two weeks ago I decided to try a GDF11 dose as low as 2 picograms, in the hope that this lower dose would not trigger the side effects of overstimulation / agitation / aggression.

But I found even 2 pg is enough to cause these unpleasant side effects in their full force. So GDF11 appears to be incredibly potent, even in the most minute doses. I have just ordered some more bacteriostatic water, and am now planning to try even smaller doses, like 0.1 pg or even 0.01 pg, to see if I can still get the benefits, but without the side effects.


(2) I've stopped taking GDF11 for two weeks now, just to have a break, and have gone back to my usual ME/CFS baseline health level. I've generally gone back to feeling my usual crappy self, and I only now realize how effective GDF11 was in removing the ever-present "crappy feeling" from ME/CFS.

So even though GDF11 did not greatly improve my ME/CFS in terms of an upward movement on the ME/CFS scale of mild, moderate and severe, GDF11 does seem to specifically target the "crappy feeling" element of ME/CFS; it definitely improves mood and makes you feel better and much less crappy, in both body and mind.
 
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Messages
93
(1) Two weeks ago I decided to try a GDF11 dose as low as 2 picograms, in the hope that this lower dose would not trigger the side effects of overstimulation / agitation / aggression.

But I found even 2 pg is enough to cause these unpleasant side effects in their full force. So GDF11 appears to be incredibly potent, even in the most minute doses. I have just ordered some more bacteriostatic water, and am now planning to try even smaller doses, like 0.1 pg or even 0.01 pg, to see if I can still get the benefits, but without the side effects.
This is interesting. I'm up to 330 Picograms a day now and it is barely moving the scale anymore. I do still feel something when injecting for about 2 hours but nothing like before. My hope that I get something from the cumulative effects. I planned on using the same bottle for 3 months but now I'm thinking of ordering a new bottle of the bacteriostatic water and doing one more mixture from the main bottle. I'm planning on doing a 6 month trial of GDF11 at 330 picograms a day. I might try to add the LL-37 in next month.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,946
This is interesting. I'm up to 330 Picograms a day now and it is barely moving the scale anymore. I do still feel something when injecting for about 2 hours but nothing like before.

Have you considered giving it a break for say 5 days, and then restarting, to see if you get the same benefits you had when you first started?

A break is also useful to check whether you may have slowly improved, but just got used to the improvement and so no longer noticed it.

It was not until I gave myself a 2-week break from GDF11 did I fully become aware the benefits it was providing while I was on it, such as its ability to reduce the "crappy feeling" of ME/CFS.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,946
I'm planning on doing a 6 month trial of GDF11 at 330 picograms a day.

With long-term use of relatively high doses of GDF11, it might be worth looking at the heart rate variability (HRV) monitor that Steve Perry recommends in this document: Biomarker Guidelines and Procuring GDF11.

Perry says:
Excess GDF11 can cause arrhythmia, which you sure as hell don't want. Arrhythmia usually pretty easy to spot with HRV trending.

I am not sure if a HRV monitor is actually effective in detecting arrhythmia; I could not find much literature on HRV monitors and arrhythmias.

But certainly arrhythmia seems to be the biggest potential risk of GDF11 that Perry mentions. Most sudden cardiac deaths are caused by arrhythmias.
 
Messages
93
I am not sure if a HRV monitor is actually effective in detecting arrhythmia; I could not find much literature on HRV monitors and arrhythmias.

But certainly arrhythmia seems to be the biggest potential risk of GDF11 that Perry mentions. Most sudden cardiac deaths are caused by arrhythmias.
Thats a good point. I'm going to take some days off between injections now anyways to see if I can get the same effect as I did before.
 
Messages
93
So I recently moved and I believe that the GDF-11 got a little warm during the move because I took 3 days off and tried an injection with basically no effect at all. Now I'm wondering if I should get another batch.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,946
So I recently moved and I believe that the GDF-11 got a little warm during the move because I took 3 days off and tried an injection with basically no effect at all. Now I'm wondering if I should get another batch.

I would not have thought a bit of heat would affect this protein; after all, it's designed to operate in a body whose temperature is 37°C.
 
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