It's a predictor for histamine problems. I have an ongoing issue w/ histmines.Nothing to do w/ this?
MAO A advice or experiences?
- Thread starter cobain_justinsane
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Oh well. I've spent a lot of time over this year looking into this issue. I've come to different conclusions from you.
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What adreno is trying to say, maybe in a not very empathic way, is that the problems you are talking about are highly unlikely to be solely due to one gene. Especially if there's no evidence that the gene variation causes those issues, which you can easily research and see for yourself.
I think we all have experiences this issue especially when sick. We all want explanations for our problems and we make associations. We all do that. Problem is sometimes things are more complicated than we think, and we tend to jump to conclusions too quickly.
In particular, the aggressive side of one's character is highly unlikely to be reducible to single gene activity.
Btw, this is the error that the most reductionist side of science has done for ages.
cheers
I think we all have experiences this issue especially when sick. We all want explanations for our problems and we make associations. We all do that. Problem is sometimes things are more complicated than we think, and we tend to jump to conclusions too quickly.
In particular, the aggressive side of one's character is highly unlikely to be reducible to single gene activity.
Btw, this is the error that the most reductionist side of science has done for ages.
cheers
@PeterPositive I only mentioned the aggression in passing. I have a lot that accounts for my over-reactivity. What I'm referring to is a primary problem w/ histamines for me. MAO++ suggests a propensity for such issues. I don't think it's at all helpful for those seeking to work w/ their SNPs to declare that such things are nonsense. I'm hardly the only person with this experience. I knew I had a histamine problem before I knew of my SNPs. Following a protocol for addressing this has led me into being nearly free of histamine outbreaks. What's to be gained by declaring this nonsense?
To my knowledge, MAO A has nothing to do with histamine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Histamine#Synthesis_and_metabolism
Even if it did, there are many reasons why histamine would be high.
The fact remains that if someone has the MAO A TT allele, they are perfectly NORMAL. The vast majority of the population has this variant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Histamine#Synthesis_and_metabolism
Even if it did, there are many reasons why histamine would be high.
The fact remains that if someone has the MAO A TT allele, they are perfectly NORMAL. The vast majority of the population has this variant.
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yea I agree...why do they report it as red like it is the risk allele. I guess since the GG is one that is sped up you would think that one would be reported red and the risk one. Also on snpedia if you look at the eu population the MAO ++ snp is the most abundant one.
More confusing is the OATS test I done showed low breakdown of serotonin and thought that was due to mao being slow...but on dopamine it showed excessive breakdown which is odd since I'm comt ++.
Doc said it wasn't high enough to be looking at tumor causes though. Also said that there are some P450 enzymes that help the breakdown.
More confusing is the OATS test I done showed low breakdown of serotonin and thought that was due to mao being slow...but on dopamine it showed excessive breakdown which is odd since I'm comt ++.
Doc said it wasn't high enough to be looking at tumor causes though. Also said that there are some P450 enzymes that help the breakdown.
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Some people think MAO homozygous is an upregulation and others think it's a downregulation. The aggression "gene" is COMT in some studies and MAO in others. It manifests differently in men than women though. Plus it was my understanding that 23 and me didn't report on the Warrior gene stuff.
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So the is the conclusion here that MAO G is really the risk because it breaks down serotonin at a fast rate therefore quickly depleting it and T is actually the normal and breaks serotonin down at a normal rate??
To make it more difficult i have GT allele ( MAO-A hetrozygoot) ... What does that means? Im depressed also ( that could be because of my mthfr a1298c homozygoot and vdr tag because of low dopamine (bh4).)
Kan i take sint johns wort or 5htp TMG or SAMe for depression with this mutstion?
Kan i take sint johns wort or 5htp TMG or SAMe for depression with this mutstion?
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I'm really not sure what the MAO mutation really entails. That's what I was hoping we could figure out.
I am MAOA +, COMT -/- (for both) and MTHFR compound heterozygous. Methylation supplements really send me into depression. I am about to begin experimenting again though.
I'd really like to figure out what the MAO does if + or -/+.
I am MAOA +, COMT -/- (for both) and MTHFR compound heterozygous. Methylation supplements really send me into depression. I am about to begin experimenting again though.
I'd really like to figure out what the MAO does if + or -/+.
MAO A's role is at least two fold: break down excitatory neurotransmitters (noradrenaline and dopamine) in the brain and break down Tyramine in the gut.
MAO A inhibitors are typically used to make people happy. I, with a homozygous mutation, seem to be more happy by myself already. I have an inbuilt MAO A reduced function it seems.
This coincides with a reverse ADHD signature which makes sense since ADHD people often have a too fast working MAO A enzyme. I have "opposite ADHD"? It would explain why MAO A inhibiters are an anti-depressant that work typically well for people with ADHD.
Next I found in an insomnia thread here that lots of folks with a particular insomnia pattern have the same MAO A mutation I have. We fall asleep readily, wake up after about five hours and lie awake for two hours. Really awake. Totally alert. Feverish alert brain, it seems.
It's a signature sleeping pattern and the MAO A coincidence is present and interesting.
Lastly Tyramine. I have the classic "cheese effect" head aches that come with not enough break down of Tyramine in foods in the gut, by MAO A enzyme. As a matter of fact, I had one last night from eating too much dark chocolate and possibly two pickled herrings and tonight I have that darn insomnia again. Which I resolved in the last couple of months which coincided with eating a Tyramine free diet (not the sole solution for this insomnia)
I may have used up tonight's reserve of MAO A on the Tyramine and now lack the enzyme to counter the insomnia.
Summarizing I present the classic triade of what a slow working MAO A enzyme stands for. Too much noradrenaline, (too) much dopamine and head aches when eating cured products (containing Tyramine).
You focused on moods. My mutation affects mood in so much that too much noradrenaline makes one alert and focused. Superfocused. Up to aggresively so. And dopamine gives a positive outlook on life. That's what makes MAO A inhibiters an anti-depressive. A drug I must avoid.
But I still have excessive moodswings and have known dangerous depression. However, these seem to come from poisened cells (not enough waste disposal abilities due to mutations and imbalances), from not having enough long term anti stress hormones (cortisol and progresteron) and from not having enough functional vit D receptors.
These three causes are dealt with via supplementation: minerals Yasko suggests; HRT (20 mg HC and 100 mg MOP daily) and 75 mcg vit D daily when on methylation. (50 mcg when not on methylation)
MAO A inhibitors are typically used to make people happy. I, with a homozygous mutation, seem to be more happy by myself already. I have an inbuilt MAO A reduced function it seems.
This coincides with a reverse ADHD signature which makes sense since ADHD people often have a too fast working MAO A enzyme. I have "opposite ADHD"? It would explain why MAO A inhibiters are an anti-depressant that work typically well for people with ADHD.
Next I found in an insomnia thread here that lots of folks with a particular insomnia pattern have the same MAO A mutation I have. We fall asleep readily, wake up after about five hours and lie awake for two hours. Really awake. Totally alert. Feverish alert brain, it seems.
It's a signature sleeping pattern and the MAO A coincidence is present and interesting.
Lastly Tyramine. I have the classic "cheese effect" head aches that come with not enough break down of Tyramine in foods in the gut, by MAO A enzyme. As a matter of fact, I had one last night from eating too much dark chocolate and possibly two pickled herrings and tonight I have that darn insomnia again. Which I resolved in the last couple of months which coincided with eating a Tyramine free diet (not the sole solution for this insomnia)
I may have used up tonight's reserve of MAO A on the Tyramine and now lack the enzyme to counter the insomnia.
Summarizing I present the classic triade of what a slow working MAO A enzyme stands for. Too much noradrenaline, (too) much dopamine and head aches when eating cured products (containing Tyramine).
You focused on moods. My mutation affects mood in so much that too much noradrenaline makes one alert and focused. Superfocused. Up to aggresively so. And dopamine gives a positive outlook on life. That's what makes MAO A inhibiters an anti-depressive. A drug I must avoid.
But I still have excessive moodswings and have known dangerous depression. However, these seem to come from poisened cells (not enough waste disposal abilities due to mutations and imbalances), from not having enough long term anti stress hormones (cortisol and progresteron) and from not having enough functional vit D receptors.
These three causes are dealt with via supplementation: minerals Yasko suggests; HRT (20 mg HC and 100 mg MOP daily) and 75 mcg vit D daily when on methylation. (50 mcg when not on methylation)
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Start lower?
I myself only supplement the minerals daily, not the mB12 or the folinic acid. I just can handle it.
I take a very low dose of it once every two weeks. 200 mcg or something. Where all the protocols talk about 1200 mcg daily.
That would send me spinning.
Also when your Copper - Zinc is out of balance you migth experience something called Copper Dump when you take Zinc. It's depression. The copper comes free and roams your brain and makes you feel awful.
You might consider doing it in bouts. Untill your Zinc is up and your Copper excess has been transported out.
Also: methylation requires extra vit D. Last year I got serious depression from forgetting that. Severe. Suicidal. This lifted when I took vit D and returned when it was usurped. (an awful time, I felt very betrayed)
I'd say with your (mine) mutations you have a sensitive body with a sensitive brain chemistry. Methylation and supplementing will influence it. So start low and work cautiously. Work in shifts. Give your body time to expell waste that comes free (bile is the great waste disposal unit).
These are the minerals I find I need daily: Jodium, Selenium, Lithium, Magnesium, Molybdenum. And often Mangaan and a full amino acid spectrum grounded gland pill (Biotics)
These are the things that keep my body/brain in balance.
mB12 and Zinc will throw it off balance but I endure that every now and then.
I avoid anything else that throws it off balance: vegetables, starches, Tyramine foods, insuline inducing foods, stresses, nutmeg and artificial vanilla flavouring. This works really well for me. But is not for every one of course. It's just how I do things and it's all based on trial, error, my particular body and its DNA mutations and science. Your milage will vary very much.
I myself only supplement the minerals daily, not the mB12 or the folinic acid. I just can handle it.
I take a very low dose of it once every two weeks. 200 mcg or something. Where all the protocols talk about 1200 mcg daily.
That would send me spinning.
Also when your Copper - Zinc is out of balance you migth experience something called Copper Dump when you take Zinc. It's depression. The copper comes free and roams your brain and makes you feel awful.
You might consider doing it in bouts. Untill your Zinc is up and your Copper excess has been transported out.
Also: methylation requires extra vit D. Last year I got serious depression from forgetting that. Severe. Suicidal. This lifted when I took vit D and returned when it was usurped. (an awful time, I felt very betrayed)
I'd say with your (mine) mutations you have a sensitive body with a sensitive brain chemistry. Methylation and supplementing will influence it. So start low and work cautiously. Work in shifts. Give your body time to expell waste that comes free (bile is the great waste disposal unit).
These are the minerals I find I need daily: Jodium, Selenium, Lithium, Magnesium, Molybdenum. And often Mangaan and a full amino acid spectrum grounded gland pill (Biotics)
These are the things that keep my body/brain in balance.
mB12 and Zinc will throw it off balance but I endure that every now and then.
I avoid anything else that throws it off balance: vegetables, starches, Tyramine foods, insuline inducing foods, stresses, nutmeg and artificial vanilla flavouring. This works really well for me. But is not for every one of course. It's just how I do things and it's all based on trial, error, my particular body and its DNA mutations and science. Your milage will vary very much.
Anyone have an answer for a histamine newbie whose apparent histamine symptoms - headache, gut instability, fatigue, brainfog - appear to be worsened by alcohol, yogurt, avocado, etc; improved by B2, B6, Mg & Cu; but not affected at all by Cetirizine (an H1 antagonist)?
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Did macuna help you? It was far too stimulating for me as it appeared my body couldn't remove the dopamine. I have an MAO aberration as well and dopamine seems awful for me.
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It might not be just this gene that is causing the problem, but something else in your constitution. I am MAO TT and I am coming to the same conclusion as you, but perhaps the MAO TT is a red herring. Have you found anything useful to upregulate MAO? My neurotransmitters appear to need supplementation up to a point. However, after a few days I think too much builds up and I can't sleep.
So far CBD, calcium glycinate, tryptophan, melatonin and ACh seem to be the biggest helpers for me.
So far CBD, calcium glycinate, tryptophan, melatonin and ACh seem to be the biggest helpers for me.
I haven't even thought of MAO in the years since the post. What I can say is that since my 2nd round of Candida cleanse, a year ago, all my symptoms have lessened. I feel like I've removed all the drag on my system, w/ diet, detox, supplementation, and what's left is the debility of ME. I'm less reactive than I was throughout my life, having almost no histamine reactions. more stable than I've been, maybe ever. Just not enough energy to do much. cheers.
@heyitisjustin Also, I wrote a blog post about FMN form of B2, which has had a significant impact on histamine problems.