Managing Potassium Deficiency - Share your experience

[tima]

Thanks Freddd.

Having now read the thread, it seems like the question has been asked about potassium affecting B12 absorption, as well as methylfolate. No-one chimed in with any immediately obvious reasoning behind that.

Has anyone any personal experience with potassium interfering with either B12 or methyfolate, if both are taken orally?

@ahmo: when do you take your folate / B12 with respect to your footbaths, please?

@Lotus97: you mention the interference in another thread - can you shed any light here?

Ideally, I can stick Me / Ad B12 & folate in sublingually and drink potassium gluconate solution all day without any problems. Guess I'll have to get myself at a constant level and try it.

The reason I'm asking is because the timing creates problems for me. I would like to achieve the clarity that B12 & folate give as early as possible during the day, and waiting around for potassium is inconvenient...

Possibly I'm not far along enough in the process yet. Maybe a little further down the road, I'll be leaping out of bed first thing in the morning, brimming with energy.

Edit:
Ho hum... Just found another thread with a similar, unanswered, question. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Mary]

Has anyone any personal experience with potassium interfering with either B12 or methyfolate, if both are taken orally?

It's never been a problem for me, that I'm aware of. I've been taking potassium gluconate with methylcobalamin and methylfolate since 2010. Freddd's posts were a lifesaver for me, because starting methylfolate caused my potassium levels to tank, creating severe fatigue. And if I had been unaware of the potential for my potassium to drop, I would have had to stop the methylfolate, which I badly needed.

I take Solgar metafolin with breakfast and lunch, and I take sublingual liquid methylcobalamin a.m. and p.m. And I take potassium gluconate with each meal and before bed and in the middle of the night. It used to be very common for me to get foot/leg cramps during the night until I started taking potassium.

eta: it is possible that I would absorb the metafolin better if taken apart from potassium, but I've never read about this before and so don't know if it's really an issue.

 

[TMartin]

Hi Tima,

Here is an up to date copy of the most recent versions of important items.

REFEEDING SYNDROME - A PROTOTYPE pragmatically based guide to survival and effective healing. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Version 1.1, 11/05/2018
I and some thousands of others have healed ourselves to various extents with this and perhaps other variations of B12/folate treatments. I can't speak for any doctors or their patients

Excellent post. Subbed.

 

[L'engle]

Has anyone experienced a high need for magnesium, similar to the need for potassium? I am needing lots of magnesium, triggered by either vitamin d or lithium exposure. Could this be a kind of refeeding similar to the potassium effect of meb12? I use epsom salts in a foot bath, measuring carefully the amount and length of time used.

After trialing lithium orotate at the end of 2013, I took a dose of meb12 similar to what I had used before and experienced runaway potassium loss. Since then I've not taken b12(fearing greater runaway potassium loss) but seemed to have retained the once transient benefits of the b12, improving my condition a bit. Until earlier this year I had what I think was long periods of flushing out magnesium, punctuated by short periods of needing magnesium at runaway levels with vitamin d exposure over an unknown but dramatic threshold point. In the spring I took vitamin A and had the same kind of instant change experience that happened with taking meb12. I also took vitamin k but was unable to tolerate it so stopped.

I took the vitamin A for a couple of months in quantities that seemed to help most and stopped taking it when it seemed to produce side effects rather than benefits. After a few weeks of taking it the magnesium flushing(I am guessing) stopped and since then I have been in a long stretch of needing magnesium, at amounts that increase dramatically when I get any sunlight or other vitamin d source and decrease slowly on their own if I avoid bright light. The problem is, it is much more difficult to avoid vitamin d produced by light exposure than it is to stop taking meb12. So the magnesium loss is harder to control than the potassium loss which resolved simply by stopping methyl b12.

So I don't know if it is a long slow process of rebuilding magnesium stores that have been depleted in the last few years, if it is a refeeding type syndrome, or something else entirely. I don't know if I am not taking it in efficiently if it is not being transported to cells properly or if it is just somehow being dumped inefficiently. Somebody wrote somewhere that folate helped them with magnesium loss but I would be afraid to have it be made even more extreme.

I read the old thread magnesium and methylation but wanted to post somewhere with more recent traffic. Feel free to move post if it seems better to revive the magnesium and methylation thread.

 

[pamojja]

I had a run-away Mg-deficiency most probably from optimizig vitamin D3 serum levels. Where even up to 2.4 g/d of oral elemental supplemented magnesium (1.6 g/d in average the last 10 years) alleviated very pain-full muscle-cramps only somewhat. But tested whole-blood magnesium declined even further. Only since the end of 2017 I was able to get allmost monthly Mg-sulfate IVs. By the 6th the muscle-cramps ceased completely. After the 10th IV I retested, where it had risen 3 mg/l in whole blood from 30 to 33, still 2 mg/l short of between normal of 34-36. I'll complete an other 10 IVs before retesting again beginning next year.

I read usually 8 IVs would suffice to correct a severe deficiency.

 

[L'engle]

@pamojja Thanks for your reply. I've had serum magnesium(normal at time of testing) but I haven't heard of whole blood magnesium tests. Did you get it from a naturopath or from within the mainstream medical system?

I would be a bit reluctant to get IVs in case it was too much all at once. I seem to need the magnesium spread out at intervals in the day and night, with much larger amounts being needed in the evening and night.

 

[pamojja]

Did you get it from a naturopath or from within the mainstream medical system?

Got it from a local lab who sent it to near-by speciality lab, paid out of my own pocket. Costs €2.68 only (together with other reasonable priced lab-tests). Most relyable would be alledgedly RBC (red blood cell), not available to me.

I would be a bit reluctant to get IVs in case it was too much all at once. I seem to need the magnesium spread out at intervals in the day and night, with much larger amounts being needed in the evening and night.

One Mg-sulfate IV only contains 486,1 mg of Mg per infusion (from about 5 g Mg-sulfate). Only side-effect in my case is inside warmth and very relaxing, therefore prefer it while sitting. And my doc allows me to slow down the drips. Antidote for an overdose would be calcium IV. And other than oral it is 100% absorbed. Which means it doesn't matter at which time of the day one gets the infusion, it will still be available during the following nights. And other than oral in my case, even accumulating over a number of IVs for getting rid of any deficiency for good. These are the ampoules I get prescreption-free from local pharmacies: https://www.patienteninfo-service.de/a-z-liste/m/magnesium-verlaR-iv-50-infusionsloesungskonzentrat/ only costs about €17,- per 5 ampoules.

An other way propably equal effective would be by nebulizer. But since it provides very little compared to an IV, it probably would have to be admistered every other day. Haven't tryed it myself: https://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Magnesium_by_nebuliser

I've had serum magnesium(normal at time of testing)

Magnsium in serum is tightly regulated. In serum my Mg deficiency was never visible. Even while still being in the upper quater of normal in serum, it already showed substancially below normal in whole blood.

 

[L'engle]

@pamojja Thanks for the information!

I have been using epsom salts in quite large quantities but want to look into the other options. Oral amounts are nowhere near enough, as they weren't for you. I am not sure how much I get from the epsom salts. The problem may be in how my system metabolizes the magnesium. I'm not sure if a lot of what absorbs is wasted or if it is somehow being used very quickly. When it was cloudy last month, the amount that I needed decreased greatly. My plan had been to build up magnesium before trying to raise vitamin D levels but I seem to be very sensitive to light and am having to stick to dark rooms on sunny days in order not to have the runaway loss jump up by a factor of 10-20. I hope it gets easier in fall and if I can build up my magnesium over the winter maybe next summer will be better. That is unless I am missing another cofactor that is effecting how my system uses magnesium. Thanks again for your info.

 

[L'engle]

Does anyone know if there is validity to the claims of 'pico-ionic magnesium'?

https://shop.truehealthcanada.ca/product/remag-8-1-oz/#.XVrt7OhKhPY

They claim it is in molecules that are smaller than the mineral ion channels so it is better absorbed at the cellular level.

I'm still needing huge amounts of magnesium epsom salts each day, particularly at night, in order to sleep and keep away symptoms of low magnesium such as racing heart, headache and complete insomnia. However it's also easy for me to have symptoms from too much magnesium, and then within a day or two of cutting back have symptoms of too little again. I am gauging how much I need by whether it relieves or causes the symptoms. So I suspect something is wrong with the transport, wasting, etc, that is strongly tied to any vitamin d exposure. Last month(July) I had gone down to only needing 1 cup of epsom salts a day. The weather was cloudy for 3 weeks and I avoided exposure even under thin cloud cover.

I really don't know what has happened but it escalated so much in the last couple of weeks that it is much harder to manage than it was before. Even minimal exposure to sunlight causes the need for magnesium to escalate. Something weird is going on. I'm considering hair mineral analysis to determine not only magnesium issues but to see if lithium is still a factor. My doctor doesn't believe in this problem and I don't think I would have much luck getting magnesium IVs from the health system here as the testing seems to just be serum magnesium. I dislike needles, so would like to avoid that as well, unless of course it is the only way. I just don't know what would enable the levels of magnesium to regulate properly in my system. I've switched to full body epsom salt soaks instead of foot soaks because the foot soaking just was not working anymore. Really inconvenient when it's midnight and I won't sleep unless I get up and soak in the tub for an hour and a half then wait for it to take effect. I'm also considering genetic testing to see if there is some problem with genes that affect mineral transport.

Edit: I've ordered hair mineral testing and genetic testing. Will be interesting to see if there is some good info there.

 

[Archie]

@L'engle

You should try take Jigsaw magnesium w/srt , can easely take up to 1000mg day without laxative effects, possible even more than 1000mg/day, but i have not tryed. I would say Jigsaw is the winner in different magnesium supplements IMO , and i have tryed several others types . Magnesium malate also chelates aluminum, so added bonus, i think high dosages magnesium help generally body detox in cell levels, which can mean that if have a lot heavy metals etc it can kick detox to next level and possible cause also herx reactions like headache etc.

 

[pamojja]

Does anyone know if there is validity to the claims of 'pico-ionic magnesium'?

I asked for scientific valitation for their claims of Remag, but got none. Also tried all forms of magnesium for years including malate, glycinate, threonate, ascorbate, etc. They all absorb equally bad for me.

I dislike needles, so would like to avoid that as well, unless of course it is the only way.

2 methods worth a trial is via nebulizer (see Dr. Myhill's instructions) or with enemas. Also with an absorbtion enhancer like a DSMO solution it might work better transtermally than just water.

 

[L'engle]

I'm now needing potassium, perhaps as a result of the magnesium issues. Trying out a foot bath with a relatively small amount of potassium. The amount of magnesium I'm needing is decreasing somewhat with complete avoidance of bright light and a very strictured existence.

 

[L'engle]

And apparently now you can't buy powdered potassium in Canada, at health grade. Anyone used the garden grade for foot soaks? I wouldn't be eating it.

 

[L'engle]

For me I've also found decreasing my sodium intake helps get through the nights if potassium loss is in overdrive. However after a few days as the potassium overdrive slows down I started to feel funny from low sodium so now I'm taking a balanced amount of both. I wouldn't recommend restricting sodium most of the time, only as a way to cope when potassium loss is insatiable.

@ahmo good idea adding mg oil to the footbath! I should try that too

Thanks, me!

 

[L'engle]

I have resorted to ordering various types of potassium, not being able to order it as a supplement. The food grade table salt is still available, but my shipment won't be here for a while. I've ordered some of the gardening stuff, supposedly arriving tomorrow, hope for the best. I then found there is potassium carbonate used in wine making and other crafting processes available easily so I ordered that too. I don't even know if that is safe to use as a foot soak. I also phoned around my town to see if anywhere sold it at garden centres, brewing places, etc.

So a lot of inefficient ordering and uncertainty because it is not available as a supplement anymore. Ordering supplement grade fro out of country is a risk too as it can just be stopped by customs and never arrive. I hope I get something in time as I am needing moderate but steady amounts through out the day and night right now and the left over bottles of supplement I bought a few years ago and just brought out the other day will be running out probably tomorrow morning, if not sooner.

 

[L'engle]

Potassium carbonate on the environmental working group website:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredient/705189/POTASSIUM_CARBONATE/

Looks like it is non-toxic, but may be an irritant, similar to baking soda or antacids. Should be ok to stick my feet in a weak solution.

 

[L'engle]

Maaged to get some no-salt which has a few additives but hopefully innocuous.

 

[L'engle]

Taurine may increase intracellular magnesium levels:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014579307011799

I haven't tried it, can't say how effective or side effect free it is.

 

[L'engle]

Update: high need for magnesium was alleviated by removing high lithium foods from my diet, which seem to be followed by the same effects I got from supplementing lithium orotate years ago. Somehow since that original supplement, I am very sensitive to lithium content. I knew to avoid nightshade vegetables, but my high need for magnesium came about when I added kidney beans to my diet, and continued eating them for several months. The magnesium loss started about two weeks after starting the kidney beans, so I didn't connect the two together. It worsened for the months that I continued eating them, and after stopping, the magnesium need disappeared completely within a few months and has not been an issue since. Legumes are a relatively high lithium food source. Since learning this magesium has been ok (Over a year now).

Potassium is still a mess, unfortunately, ever since the great magnesium intake. Already tried copper, made it worse. Also having calcium loss since letting vitamin d and k get out of balance again. Taking K causes untenable potassium loss right now so I've only been able to take it in tiny bits, in contrast to the amount of vitamin d that I took over a few months in 2020. This was my first time since the initial lithium orotate(2013) intake that was able to tolerate supplementing with vitamin d for several months. Taking vitamin k2 in the MK-4 form completely resolved calcium loss symptoms in 2019 after dealing with the them for several years. Supplementing with vitamin d and vitamin d rich foods was ok up till a point, then within an hour of the last amount (salmon), low calcium set in and has been an issue since. I'm nearly certain vitamin K2(mk-4) would clear it up again, but... the potassium problem is making that very slow to carry out. (Yes, I am aware that vitamin d is needed for calcium intake. But to get calcium and magnesium into cells, vitamin k2 is needed. I have learned that taking one without the other leads to low calcium symptoms for me, and that the imbalance can hit a sudden tipping point that it is hard to come back from.)

This is based on years of observation of what improves or worsens electrolyte problems for me, may not have any bearing on others' situations.

 

[Victronix]

I had a pretty severe potassium deficiency issue for years and then it gradually improved, but will likely never fully resolve - the easiest fastest thing that works for me is coconut water. I used to have a banana a day, also, but then my doctor recommended not doing that because of the sugar in bananas, which she thought was making other issues worse.