MAF 878 Available - Anyone already using it?

[ukxmrv]

Good to hear Snowathlete. Hope the packaging gets the MAF to you safely. Please let us know how you get on.

I've changed back to MAF314 as another local London patients sometimes has some spare culture and that version seems to work quicker for me.

 

[denlander]

The confusion relating to the Probiotic and allowing the probiotic bacteria to mature is understandable. The PROBIOTIC BACTERIA multiply for 5 days in a culture medium at room temperature and while they do so they produce MAF (macrocyte activating factor) into the mixture. We grow the probiotic bacteria in yoghurt/kefir colostrum mixture which allows the probiotic bacteria to proliferate yielding the MAF into an edible medium. After five days of proliferation we refrigerate the mixture ready to drink. The mixture keeps for approx 4-5 weeks in a refrigerator after maturing. Patients have found it helpful in ME and CFS and also in Fibromyalgia

 

[denlander]

The MAF 878 starter normally is in liquid form and is a problem for my staff to send it by mail. We are a doctors office trying to help patients , we are not set up for mailing liquids. Glass bottles have got broken and spilt. We are now working on a dehydated MAF 878 probiotic bacteria which you then add to your own culture medium. The medium can be soy, milk, yoghurt , kefir , coconut milk or whatever your allergic preference dictates. The results of the MAF 878 dehydrate starter seem to be nearly as good as the liquid starter so the lactose intolerant (etc) now have a choice go to my nurse Laura at enlandercfs@yahoo.com. Culture is the same as the old liquid starter

 

[Forebearance]

Cool! Thank you for telling us, Dr. Enlander!

 

[Lala]

Thank you, Dr. Enlander, what is the price of new powder form?

 

[Ember]

Has anyone tried using the dehydrate starter?

 

[alice]

Thanks for asking about this, Ember. I'm eagerly awaiting any comments regarding the dehydrated starter. I missed Dr. Enlander's original post.

 

[Sasha]

Has anyone tried using the dehydrate starter?

Yes, I'm using it. It's fine - it has less volume, of course, so I've reduced my daily dose a bit from 75ml. The consistency seems a bit thinner.

 

[suzanne]

hi all..I have almost read the MAF 878 thread from cover to cover. I was hoping that you mght give me some help.

I am getting ready to trial the GcMAF again at a very low dose after suffering a lot with IRIS. I havae figured from trail and error that 5 ng is too high a dose for me ans so was thinking that I will try 1 ng soon.

Alternatively I could try MAF 878 if that us thought to be less severe on the system...but I cam not sure if this holds true?

Should I just go ahead with a dose of 1 ng injectable...rather than go down the MAF 878 route?I guess the answer to that is whetehr it is likely to be easier for me to tolerate?

If I go down the MAF 878 path is it available to be shipped to Australia? Is the E bay site the best?

It seems that some sensitive people still had troubles on even a teaspoon a day? Do any take it less frequently - say 1 -2 times a week?

Sorry about all the questions, but I am just puzzled about what to do next as I have had such a heard time with symptoms.

So much so..... that I am even thinking of getting more testing (DNA) to determine what might be the pathogens causing me the biggest issues with the immune system activation.

cheers,

Suzanne

 

[Sasha]

Hi Suzanne - I don't know the answers to any of your questions, I'm afraid - I've only ever used MAF 878 and have had no severe problems (felt a bit fluey at the beginning for a week or two - then after several months had some malaise so had a holiday from it to see if it was responsible - went back on it about 8 weeks ago and no problems yet). I've always used the full dose (75ml).

I'd ask Dr Enlander's office about shipping to Australia.

 

[GcMAF Australia]

hi all..I have almost read the MAF 878 thread from cover to cover. I was hoping that you mght give me some help.



If I go down the MAF 878 path is it available to be shipped to Australia? Is the E bay site the best?

It seems that some sensitive people still had troubles on even a teaspoon a day? Do any take it less frequently - say 1 -2 times a week?

Sorry about all the questions, but I am just puzzled about what to do next as I have had such a heard time with symptoms.

So much so..... that I am even thinking of getting more testing (DNA) to determine what might be the pathogens causing me the biggest issues with the immune system activation.

cheers,

Suzanne

Suzanne
There is an email address supplied above for Erlander
"The results of the MAF 878 dehydrate starter seem to be nearly as good as the liquid starter so the lactose intolerant (etc) now have a choice go to my nurse Laura at enlandercfs@yahoo.com."
Have you had Lyme tests done?
Dr Derham has 200 Lyme patients now
between 110 and 160 in Melbourne

 

[suzanne]

Still pondering if the MAF 878. Potentially it will cause me the same problems as GcMAF..even KMAF at one drop every 3-4 days was too much for me!

As to testing, Dr Derham is ordering some PCR tests- including lyme. Should have the results in about 2 months ( $800 later). Tests being done by a Sydney pathology service: Australian Biologics...just maybe this is why I am finding the symptoms impossible. I have balked at getting the testing done, but have been informed by some that the pathogen overload can cause significant symptoms on start up with GcMAF...at least this way I will be clearer about what bugs I actually have- even thought I know it is not the cause of the disease, necessarily.

many thanks
Suzanne

 

[deuce]

Hi Suzanne and hello everyone else here for that matter as it's my first post here

I had two skype consultations with Dr Enlander and then his staff sent the MAF878 and vitamin sups via post to me here in Sydney. It arrived safe and sound as a dry powder and I bought the other ingredients to make my own magic potion.

I can attest to the comments of others here that the yoghurt did make me feel a lot more ill than I had imagined. The symptoms I have felt for a long time became really apparent after taking it.

Whilst I accept that others may see things differently, to me the ill feeling derived from the onset of drinking the 75ml of yoghurt is an indication that it's actually attacking the problem and, I'm prepared to fight through that even if it messes me about a lot. It may be the case that I'm naive and making oneself feel ill doesn't necessarily resolve anything or treat the problem - but at least its my rationalisation and I hope to alleviate myself of this otherwise really debilitating condition that has wasted so much valuable time in my life.

 

[ukxmrv]

Deuce, did you discuss IRIS at all with Dr Enlander?

I can well understand how you feel about attacking the problem. My experience is that I rarely get to the point of having any good effects from a drug or supplement that makes me feel seriously worse than when I started. Was really lucky in that MAF314 and MAF878 (pre-the powder version) caused long term or serious ill effects.

Good luck to you with the MAF878.

 

[deuce]

Deuce, did you discuss IRIS at all with Dr Enlander?

I can well understand how you feel about attacking the problem. My experience is that I rarely get to the point of having any good effects from a drug or supplement that makes me feel seriously worse than when I started. Was really lucky in that MAF314 and MAF878 (pre-the powder version) caused long term or serious ill effects.

Good luck to you with the MAF878.

Hello ukxmrv - I didn't discuss IRIS with Dr Enlander. I wasn't aware of it till I started reading this forum.

I am sure that you have very valuable experience with MAF products and so I take your point that the dosage level where it causes ill feeling hasn't resulted in any therapeutic benefit for you at all. Perhaps its worthwhile me trying to drop down the dose a bit. The reason why I wanted to take the full 75ml's was because Dr Enlander told me the yoghurt wasn't as strong as the injection and I wanted to get the full benefit of anything that would help me overcome this nuisance condition.

Dr Enlander's secretary also discussed with me about undertaking some sort of inflammatory check and she sent in the mail this stuff called Anatabloc. I know on this forum there is some discussion about Anatabloc. Now I'm going to go out on a limb here, (and I have no evidence or proof of things and I am certainly no doctor), but if nothing else I noticed very distinctly that using the Anatabloc made my mood a lot better. I legitimately feel the Anatabloc had an effect of lifting a bit of depression I was feeling and I am sure that the frustration of ME and the interferance it causes in our lives has to have an effect on all our moods. I dont know why I felt Anatabloc helped this, and perhaps others may write it off as just placebo, but I really felt it was good. And when I did a bit more reading I found out that Anatabloc is a naturally occurring substance found in old school anti depressant pills called MAOI's.

I am excited for my journey now. Certainly Australia is a wasteland and void of any ME/CFS professional help it seems. Having Dr Enlander's treatment makes me feel I have an avenue to try. Nothing is perfect and there can be no guarantees in life but I feel that I might have a light at the end of the tunnel and on the MAF878 journey, the Anatabloc was an interesting find along the way

Cheers

 

[GcMAF Australia]

Hello ukxmrv - I didn't discuss IRIS with Dr Enlander. I wasn't aware of it till I started reading this forum.

I am sure that you have very valuable experience with MAF products and so I take your point that the dosage level where it causes ill feeling hasn't resulted in any therapeutic benefit for you at all. Perhaps its worthwhile me trying to drop down the dose a bit. The reason why I wanted to take the full 75ml's was because Dr Enlander told me the yoghurt wasn't as strong as the injection and I wanted to get the full benefit of anything that would help me overcome this nuisance condition.

Dr Enlander's secretary also discussed with me about undertaking some sort of inflammatory check and she sent in the mail this stuff called Anatabloc. I know on this forum there is some discussion about Anatabloc. Now I'm going to go out on a limb here, (and I have no evidence or proof of things and I am certainly no doctor), but if nothing else I noticed very distinctly that using the Anatabloc made my mood a lot better. I legitimately feel the Anatabloc had an effect of lifting a bit of depression I was feeling and I am sure that the frustration of ME and the interferance it causes in our lives has to have an effect on all our moods. I dont know why I felt Anatabloc helped this, and perhaps others may write it off as just placebo, but I really felt it was good. And when I did a bit more reading I found out that Anatabloc is a naturally occurring substance found in old school anti depressant pills called MAOI's.

I am excited for my journey now. Certainly Australia is a wasteland and void of any ME/CFS professional help it seems. Having Dr Enlander's treatment makes me feel I have an avenue to try. Nothing is perfect and there can be no guarantees in life but I feel that I might have a light at the end of the tunnel and on the MAF878 journey, the Anatabloc was an interesting find along the way

Cheers

some MAF s can be quite potent
there are some CFs practitioners in Australia.
MAF314 is being used in Melbourne
and GcMAF i beleive in Perth

 

[deuce]

Hello GcMAFAust. I am sure you're right about some practitioners in oz using MAFs. I was diagnosed with what was then called CFS about 20 years ago from what was apparently one of the experts in Oz. At the time, the doctor/expert who diagnosed me advised there was nothing that could be done other than slow exercise.

Any references I ever made to anybody about CFS were constantly met with derision and ridicule. One doctor even asked me why people in China and the third world didn't have issues like Chronic Fatigue and just stared at me after that to make the silence and his rhetorical question seem even more humiliating. I gave up and went about my life with horrible unsustainable difficulty for another 19 years. When the difficulty became too much I sought help again and felt there was still seemed few resources, at least in Sydney. I just presumed that if I couldn't find any help here I'd hit the internet and stumbled upon Dr Endlander's work.

The yoghurt was only suggested by Dr Enlander when I came back to him saying I couldn't find a doctor locally that could deliver me injections of MAF and he suggested the yoghurt as an alternative. Perhaps my own ignorance of other practitioners led me to look overseas.

Perhaps without boring everyone else on this forum with my queries, I would very very appreciative if I could contact you and find some more info about local resources. And on another note, I do really believe Anatabloc was a good find!

 

[deuce]

some MAF s can be quite potent

Actually I have a question - if normal people (that is to say non ME/CFS sufferers) were to take MAF's, would they also feel very ill and knocked about by them?

I guess my question is really asking, does the fact that the MAF's create some terrible ill feelings when we take them demonstrate that they are actually hitting the very problem or cause of the ME? Perhaps nobody knows the answer to this ethereal question, but it intrigues me.

 

[ukxmrv]

Deuce,

Can really echo with you the early expriences of CFS and ME. I'm a big fan of Dr Enlander and I saw him as a patient when he was visiting London once. He does come here every year or so.

I'm taking the MAF314 because that was the first version I came across and it was before Dr Enlander was using the MAF878 (I think). My experience was very good and I was so lucky and didn't get severe reactions. I responded to the normal daily dose. Some bad side effects but nothing that I could not handle. Took Benedryl and other things for the bad reactions.

When Dr Enlander released the MAF878 I did try it for a month but didn't get the same good results (and it was a terrible month for me as bad flus were going around my family). It could have been too short to try the 878 version but I stopped as the MAF314 was easier and cheaper to get at that point.

p.s. don't know the answer to you question. In the past I have taken drugs and supplements that have made my health worse and badly worse at that, like for a year and had no good benefits. Maybe there would be some tests that could help us determine that? With the MAF314 I got good benefits from the start and not the terrible reactions I've had to other things. No idea what it all means but you will find this as a topic we'll talked about a lot here.

 

[GcMAF Australia]

Actually I have a question - if normal people (that is to say non ME/CFS sufferers) were to take MAF's, would they also feel very ill and knocked about by them?

I guess my question is really asking, does the fact that the MAF's create some terrible ill feelings when we take them demonstrate that they are actually hitting the very problem or cause of the ME? Perhaps nobody knows the answer to this ethereal question, but it intrigues me.

generally with MAfs and some other treatments the herx reactions indicate that the treatment is hitting the target. Bacteria etc dont always like being clobbered, they can release toxins and inflammation results.
Normal or near normal people dont have these reactions they tend not to get inflammation/herx reactions
GcMAF is a natural product