I purchased a vielight 633 nm and used it for the first time today. I felt no effects. Should I feel something immediately? Also can someone point to the Yoga exercises that have been mentioned? And how is everyone using these lights on their belly buttons? Where are you getting this info? Thanks!
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LED red intranasal light therapy
- Thread starter Lou
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I think I spoke too soon when I said I felt no effects from the first treatment of the LED light. I ended up sleeping for 12 hours and feeling very achy and hungover today. My teeth ached in my gums. Is that good or bad? Has anyone tried the infrared pulsed light? If so, what type of effect did it have?
Little Bluestem
All Good Things Must Come to an End
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Anyone?
Chris
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If you are going to use a Vielight, I think it is worth reading the inventor's essay "The potential of intranasal light therapy for brain stimulation" on the MedicLights website--it is very well researched, and makes it clear that his latest version, the 810 infrared LED is the one most likely to produce good results with most people more or less like us--Parkinson's, etc. Lew Lim only started making this one early 2013, and at that point had only distributed 12, so could only report on a very few feedback comments, and it is the most expensive model in his repertoire, but it sounds very interesting, and the account of his thinking and research in trying to optimize the nasal approach is impressive. I have not used it yet, and plan to begin my experimenting with units from MedX (see the report of a lecture by Anita Saltmarsche in the chapter on light therapy in Norman Doidge's "How the Brain Heals Itself"), but plan to add the Vielight later if I get some positive response from the MedXhealth units.
Chris
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@helen1--so am I! Will report in a while, but at the moment they are not yet here.
Asklipia
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I have stopped using the light a long time ago, because it caused very strong detox. I deduced from this that it was activating my immune system very strongly and that some nasties were being eliminated.
I am now following Sanum therapy, which does give me detox in the same way, but very mild in comparison. I intend to go back to the red light when the Sanum has stopped giving obvious results.
Good luck!
I am now following Sanum therapy, which does give me detox in the same way, but very mild in comparison. I intend to go back to the red light when the Sanum has stopped giving obvious results.
Good luck!
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Today I learned about a laser therapy called Class IV K-Laser which I think might be the same as @Chris is describing. It delivers "specific red and near- infrared wavelengths of laser light to induce a therapeutic effect within the body....increased circulation, decreased swelling, reduction of pain and enhanced tissue repair"
The chiropractor I saw mentioned that same chapter in the book by Norman Doidge. The reason for my consultation with this particular chiro was b/c he apparently does not do traditional chiroprachtic manipulations but instead works with laser and other modalities with seemingly good results. He has many patients with CFS or so he says. I'm not going to get my hopes up that this will help with my dysautonomia and occiptial headaches becasue I've had my bubble burst before
But, I do have some hope.!
The chiropractor I saw mentioned that same chapter in the book by Norman Doidge. The reason for my consultation with this particular chiro was b/c he apparently does not do traditional chiroprachtic manipulations but instead works with laser and other modalities with seemingly good results. He has many patients with CFS or so he says. I'm not going to get my hopes up that this will help with my dysautonomia and occiptial headaches becasue I've had my bubble burst before
But, I do have some hope.!Chris, have you started treatment yet? anything to report?
Sparrowhawk
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Don't know if it is the same thing, @charlie1, but my chiro uses a "cold laser" and I have found it works on rashes and also for my trigeminal nerve pain (side of my face). I went into it thinking "this laser thing is woo woo" but I got at least 50% pain decrease in one treatment.
She tried the adrenal settings on me as well, but after responding well to the first two such treatments, I crashed after the third. I think anything that "pushes" the adrenals is probably not for us.
She tried the adrenal settings on me as well, but after responding well to the first two such treatments, I crashed after the third. I think anything that "pushes" the adrenals is probably not for us.
Chris
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@charlie1--the MedX units use sLEDs, not lasers--safer on the eyes, it seems, though one is warned not to stare into them. I have just received the units, but clearly will have to check with Anita before using--there are several programming steps one has to insert before using--I am sure I will be able to figure it out... So nothing to report yet..
@Sparrowhawk--it is conceivable that "cold laser" is a loose term for sLEDs, but suspect it is not--the MedX is definitely not a laser unit. More news in a while!
@Sparrowhawk--it is conceivable that "cold laser" is a loose term for sLEDs, but suspect it is not--the MedX is definitely not a laser unit. More news in a while!
The reason I'm considering laser therapy with the chiropractor is b/c lately I've been wondering how much of my unresolved whiplash issues (from a MVA 9 yrs ago) is attributing to my CFS symptoms.
@Sparrowhawk - I wasn't sure of the difference between cold laser and the K-laser so I found some info on this physio site linked below. The laser that would be used on me is classified as type IV which according to this link offers the deepest penetration of all the therapy lasers.
http://www.promotionphysio.com/laser/39-laser/108-high-power-laser-therapy-vs-cold-laser-therapy
@Chris Good luck with the MedX unit! I hope it offers you symptom relief
@Sparrowhawk - I wasn't sure of the difference between cold laser and the K-laser so I found some info on this physio site linked below. The laser that would be used on me is classified as type IV which according to this link offers the deepest penetration of all the therapy lasers.
http://www.promotionphysio.com/laser/39-laser/108-high-power-laser-therapy-vs-cold-laser-therapy
@Chris Good luck with the MedX unit! I hope it offers you symptom relief
Sparrowhawk
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Thanks. Let us know how it works for you, hope it is effective!
@Sparrowhawk Thank-you ! Seeing as the accident was 9 yrs ago, I'm not overly optimistic but still...I have hope
The reason I'm considering laser therapy with the chiropractor is b/c lately I've been wondering how much of my unresolved whiplash issues (from a MVA 9 yrs ago) is attributing to my CFS symptoms.
@Sparrowhawk - I wasn't sure of the difference between cold laser and the K-laser so I found some info on this physio site linked below. The laser that would be used on me is classified as type IV which according to this link offers the deepest penetration of all the therapy lasers.
http://www.promotionphysio.com/laser/39-laser/108-high-power-laser-therapy-vs-cold-laser-therapy
@Chris Good luck with the MedX unit! I hope it offers you symptom relief
That's not entirely true. The depth of penetration is also depends on wavelength, 650nm can penetrate 2-3 cm, 808nm can penetrate 5-7 cm
I have been very interested in this thread. I found it on a google search about VieLight.
The day before finding this thread, I had started using a Bionase unit, purchased after re-reading an article by Dr Myhill. I have just found that Wallace has posted a link to that article on the previous page. It's now about Day 4. The unit cuts off after 4.5 minutes and is to be used three times a day. I have been using it for 9 minutes at a time on some occasions.
Results? Reading this made me think about my sleep and I realised that it seems much better. I'd been going through a disrupted phase for a few weeks but now I'm waking less frequently. Also, the sleep graphs from my vivofit show that I've had some REM sleep the last few days, and I had been short on that for weeks.I also have more energy, after a very low patch after an infection. However, I think the higher energy had just started before I used this, as I felt tempted to garden on Friday.
Another interesting result is my hay fever and rhinitis - which is what this unit claims to help. My nose felt immediately clearer. As someone else mentioned, my nose felt clearer but I had lots of post-nasal drip, which made my cough worse. I now have a dry throat, which was mentioned as a temporary side-effect. It can take up to 2 weeks for the hay fever to settle down.
I think it's worth persevering.
Dreambirdie, if you are still reading this thread, I hope your sleep has settled down. If not, have you tried wearing amber-tinted glasses at night for 2-3 hours? Supposedly they block out the blue light and help the body to produce the melatonin that gets us to sleep and also the melatonin that keeps us asleep. A friend and I have both found these to be helpful. She paid a lot of money for hers but I found some relatively cheaply on Amazon.
Also, for those who found they had a strong reaction to the light: In her article, Dr Myhill says:
TB sufferers treated with sunshine could not immediately tolerate full body exposure. Special trolleys were designed which could be pushed out onto balconies so initially just the feet were exposed, then legs, trunk and finally the whole body. Too much sun too soon made them ill – this could possibly be a Herxheimer reaction?
This makes me think that some people need a very gentle introduction to the light.
The day before finding this thread, I had started using a Bionase unit, purchased after re-reading an article by Dr Myhill. I have just found that Wallace has posted a link to that article on the previous page. It's now about Day 4. The unit cuts off after 4.5 minutes and is to be used three times a day. I have been using it for 9 minutes at a time on some occasions.
Results? Reading this made me think about my sleep and I realised that it seems much better. I'd been going through a disrupted phase for a few weeks but now I'm waking less frequently. Also, the sleep graphs from my vivofit show that I've had some REM sleep the last few days, and I had been short on that for weeks.I also have more energy, after a very low patch after an infection. However, I think the higher energy had just started before I used this, as I felt tempted to garden on Friday.
Another interesting result is my hay fever and rhinitis - which is what this unit claims to help. My nose felt immediately clearer. As someone else mentioned, my nose felt clearer but I had lots of post-nasal drip, which made my cough worse. I now have a dry throat, which was mentioned as a temporary side-effect. It can take up to 2 weeks for the hay fever to settle down.
I think it's worth persevering.
Dreambirdie, if you are still reading this thread, I hope your sleep has settled down. If not, have you tried wearing amber-tinted glasses at night for 2-3 hours? Supposedly they block out the blue light and help the body to produce the melatonin that gets us to sleep and also the melatonin that keeps us asleep. A friend and I have both found these to be helpful. She paid a lot of money for hers but I found some relatively cheaply on Amazon.
Also, for those who found they had a strong reaction to the light: In her article, Dr Myhill says:
TB sufferers treated with sunshine could not immediately tolerate full body exposure. Special trolleys were designed which could be pushed out onto balconies so initially just the feet were exposed, then legs, trunk and finally the whole body. Too much sun too soon made them ill – this could possibly be a Herxheimer reaction?
This makes me think that some people need a very gentle introduction to the light.
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Are there any new reports from reliable sources and users of the 810? I am desperate for some sleep and I would like some input aside from a store selling the product.
Chris
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I will try to be a reliable source--I have now had a good deal of experience with the 810, and also the MED-X units, and a little with the Vielight 633. The 810 has definitely improved my sleep, to a significant though not revolutionary level. It has also improved my overall mood, has slightly improved my aged hearing, and reduced my tinnitus a bit. I also walk with more confidence over rough rocky ground. I would say I am very pleased with the unit overall, and plan to continue indefinitely, probably with periodic breaks.
The 633, aimed differently, has been helping a friend of mine, same age-82--in some quite specific ways; she has no neurological problems, but has deep vein problems in one calf, and it has helped there very noticeably, and has also helped her sleep. I tried it, and it seemed to induce a kind of excitation that was not pleasant. I suspect that for us ME types the 810 is the one choose, though Lew Lim says that a couple of people with ME had some success with the 655, the laser model--but, being a laser, it is capable of damaging eyes if used carelessly, so I am steering clear. I do intend to find out more about their experience if I can.
Lew has now produced the Vielight Neuro, which consists of a more powerful version of the 810 (they use the same basic parameters, but are not interchangeable), together with a four capsule head set. Looks very interesting, but expensive, and not yet really tested--brand new. Aimed in the first place at Alzheimer's.
The MED-X units are much more powerful, and need to be programmed--very flexible, but designed to be programmed by professional health care providers before being put into the hands of patients.
All of these units aim to interact with elements in the cells, primarily mitochondria, where they promote the chain that produces ATP, but in the process also increase ROS and also, one hopes, the glutathione and other antioxidants that combat the ROS. There are a couple of studies on a mouse model of MS, the disease closest to ours, that indicate that one needs to go slow and low in dosing, and to take periodic breaks. But there have as yet been no studies on many of the major autoimmune diseases like Lupus or Sjogrens -or us--unless I have missed some, quite possible ,but I have looked. The 633 seemed to produce more ROS than ATP--at least that is my subjective impression. The 810 is a calmer but quietly effective unit--don't expect quick miracles, but I think it can do good things for us. Hope this helps a bit.
The 633, aimed differently, has been helping a friend of mine, same age-82--in some quite specific ways; she has no neurological problems, but has deep vein problems in one calf, and it has helped there very noticeably, and has also helped her sleep. I tried it, and it seemed to induce a kind of excitation that was not pleasant. I suspect that for us ME types the 810 is the one choose, though Lew Lim says that a couple of people with ME had some success with the 655, the laser model--but, being a laser, it is capable of damaging eyes if used carelessly, so I am steering clear. I do intend to find out more about their experience if I can.
Lew has now produced the Vielight Neuro, which consists of a more powerful version of the 810 (they use the same basic parameters, but are not interchangeable), together with a four capsule head set. Looks very interesting, but expensive, and not yet really tested--brand new. Aimed in the first place at Alzheimer's.
The MED-X units are much more powerful, and need to be programmed--very flexible, but designed to be programmed by professional health care providers before being put into the hands of patients.
All of these units aim to interact with elements in the cells, primarily mitochondria, where they promote the chain that produces ATP, but in the process also increase ROS and also, one hopes, the glutathione and other antioxidants that combat the ROS. There are a couple of studies on a mouse model of MS, the disease closest to ours, that indicate that one needs to go slow and low in dosing, and to take periodic breaks. But there have as yet been no studies on many of the major autoimmune diseases like Lupus or Sjogrens -or us--unless I have missed some, quite possible ,but I have looked. The 633 seemed to produce more ROS than ATP--at least that is my subjective impression. The 810 is a calmer but quietly effective unit--don't expect quick miracles, but I think it can do good things for us. Hope this helps a bit.
Chris
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PS. Forgot one more item very relevant to your desire for sleep--the laser model, the 655, seems to have the strongest effect on sleep, and a tiny record of having helped in ME--it is the unit credited (not by name) on p.154 of Doidge's "The Brain's Way of Healing" with having cured a serious case of insomnia. If you are willing to take the responsibility of using it very carefully, preferably with filtering goggles I would think.
Chris
Chris
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Thank you for your help!
How long does it usually take to see some results? I think I have some neurological issues that cause my insomnia. The vielight company told me the 810 was the best model for sleep, so it's interesting that you say the 655 is better. I have been wrestling with some anxiety and depression as of late (most likely due to a drastic increase in exhaustion, pain levels, and worsening insomnia). I am unaware of the other models...the Med-X and the vielight neuro. I would not even know where to go to have a professional set me up with the Med-X, if I could afford it.
I honestly don't know if I actually have ME. I have some symptoms, chronic fatigue being one of them. I also have grave's disease. But my problems first began with back pain, then having muscle spasms in my head and neck--7 years ago, which brought on insomnia. It has only been since about October when my fatigue became significant--directly correlating with the use of a sleep aid containing phenibut, 5-htp and melatonin. Then, for reasons unknown to me, my fatigue drastically increased after I discontinued a prescription NSAID I had been using to help relieve the spasms. Anyhow, I tend to think that somehow all of this is neurological, but it's possible that it isn't.
One last thing. I do not know what ROS stands for. There are so many acronyms on this forum and I am still trying to figure them all out.
How long does it usually take to see some results? I think I have some neurological issues that cause my insomnia. The vielight company told me the 810 was the best model for sleep, so it's interesting that you say the 655 is better. I have been wrestling with some anxiety and depression as of late (most likely due to a drastic increase in exhaustion, pain levels, and worsening insomnia). I am unaware of the other models...the Med-X and the vielight neuro. I would not even know where to go to have a professional set me up with the Med-X, if I could afford it.
I honestly don't know if I actually have ME. I have some symptoms, chronic fatigue being one of them. I also have grave's disease. But my problems first began with back pain, then having muscle spasms in my head and neck--7 years ago, which brought on insomnia. It has only been since about October when my fatigue became significant--directly correlating with the use of a sleep aid containing phenibut, 5-htp and melatonin. Then, for reasons unknown to me, my fatigue drastically increased after I discontinued a prescription NSAID I had been using to help relieve the spasms. Anyhow, I tend to think that somehow all of this is neurological, but it's possible that it isn't.
One last thing. I do not know what ROS stands for. There are so many acronyms on this forum and I am still trying to figure them all out.
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Thank you for your help!
I find it interesting that you say the 655 is better for sleep, as the vielight company told me the 810 was better. I also seem to be wrestling with some anxiety and depression as some of my symptoms have gotten significantly worse recently.
Until this pat October, I was only mildly fatigued, but after trying a sleep aid containing phenibut, 5-htp and melatonin, I have not been the same since. My energy level dropped to very low, and after stopping a prescription NSAID in March, it got so bad I often feel out of breath just going to the kitchen. I also have grave's disease and who knows how that is affecting things, since my problems with pain and sleep started long before that came about. I am not even sure I have ME. It seems as though I have some symptoms though.
I am unfamiliar with the other two u its you mentioned, and I don't know where to find a professional that would assist me with the MED-X, if I could afford one.
Thank you again for all your help.
I find it interesting that you say the 655 is better for sleep, as the vielight company told me the 810 was better. I also seem to be wrestling with some anxiety and depression as some of my symptoms have gotten significantly worse recently.
Until this pat October, I was only mildly fatigued, but after trying a sleep aid containing phenibut, 5-htp and melatonin, I have not been the same since. My energy level dropped to very low, and after stopping a prescription NSAID in March, it got so bad I often feel out of breath just going to the kitchen. I also have grave's disease and who knows how that is affecting things, since my problems with pain and sleep started long before that came about. I am not even sure I have ME. It seems as though I have some symptoms though.
I am unfamiliar with the other two u its you mentioned, and I don't know where to find a professional that would assist me with the MED-X, if I could afford one.
Thank you again for all your help.