Kambo for CFS??

[Melissa89]

https://troyerstling.com/kambo-medicinal-frog-poison/

Has anyone ever tried Kambo for their CFS? I have a few friends with CFS as well as a girlfriend with Lupus who have all tried it. I don’t think I’m brave enough but they all say it’s wonderful?

There’s also compelling anecdotal evidence for kambo’s effectiveness in the treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). According to one sufferer, the secretion completely eliminates CFS symptoms when taken regularly

 

[PatJ]

Kambo has been discussed in past threads here.

 

[Hip]

According to one sufferer, the secretion completely eliminates CFS symptoms when taken regularly

Was that person by any chance someone named Jox on the kambo.me forum? Some of Jox's threads on his kambo treatment for ME/CFS can be found here: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]

I detail Jox's kambo treatment of his ME/CFS in this thread:
From Bedbound to Fit and Able in 14 Days: Effects of the Amazonian Medicine Kambo on a CFS Patient


I tried some low doses of kambo taken intranasally (snorting the powder into my nose), but did not have the courage to try the full dose (I snorted 1 mg of kambo, whereas the full dose is 15 to 20 mg of kambo powder).

Intranasal kambo works just as well as the burn method of administration, but intranasal kambo is definitely not recommended, as the Amazonian Indians have observed that snorting kambo occasionally leads to a disease they call the frog disease, presumably due to some microbial pathogens present in the kambo (kambo is the dried secretions from the giant leaf frog in the Amazon). The burn method however is considered safe.

One kambo practitioner known as Galega asked the Amazonian Indians about frog disease, and this is what they told her:

Frog disease is a viral type illnes that cannot be gotten rid of. It is unknown to the outside world. Amongst other things, it can apparently weaken the heart muscles and cause cardiac arrest and have some effects on the brain - he described it as 'eating the brain'!. Indians who snort snuff with kambo in it do so only very occasionally and always in conjunction with heavy kambo sessions so the live kambo acts as a kind of anti venom/viral. Even so, it is still considered risky he says and only for those with strong hearts and systems (eg, regular kambo users). His view is that kambo taken orally could also cause the same problem.

 

[Hip]

Intriguingly, I just noticed that sauvagine, one of the component substances in kambo, is a hormone in the corticotropin-releasing factor family — the very same family as the experimental ME/CFS drug known as the Cortene Peptide (CT38). Some info in this post.

 

[Melissa89]

@Hip wow! Intranasal Kambo? It all sounds very interesting and a little scary as there has been a reported death from the burning method -
I can’t imagine the intranasal method being too much fun! Regardless I think I will try a small dose with the burn method. I do have a high tolerance for alternative treatments and medicines so I think I will fare well.

It really seems like an intriguing treatment and a lot of the younger gen with CFS/ME and autoimmune issues are doing this and swearing by it. Ie; full remissions or at least marked improvement in their conditions. Like I said my best friend has SLE and it’s the only thing that gives her pain relief, energy and what she says “just a feeling of health”. I will review my experience with Kambo if anyone is interested.

 

[Hip]

I will review my experience with Kambo if anyone is interested.

It will be very interesting to hear your results!

Do you have any web links to stories of remissions or marked improvement in illness from kambo?

I can’t imagine the intranasal method being too much fun!

The intranasal method causes no local symptoms nor any irritation in the nose, it's well tolerated, and would be preferable to the burn method, if it were not for the issue of catching an infection from the intranasal route. (One idea I had was send off my kambo stick to get gamma irradiated, a food sterilization process, which will kill most pathogens it might contain. Then it should be safer for intranasal use.)

EDIT: I just found some of my old notes, where I wrote that "my nasal cavity was very slightly sore afterwards, for several hours; but was fine by the next day." That was with 1 mg of kambo, so the full dose of 15 mg would probably cause more soreness.

 

[Melissa89]

It will be very interesting to hear your results!

Do you have any web links to stories of remissions or marked improvement in illness from kambo?





The intranasal method causes no local symptoms nor any irritation in the nose, it's well tolerated, and would be preferable to the burn method, if it were not for the issue of catching an infection from the intranasal route. (One idea I had was send off my kambo stick to get gamma irradiated, a food sterilization process, which will kill most pathogens it might contain. Then it should be safer for intranasal use.)

No web links but I have personal accounts from people I know and it was suggested to me by them. I can definitely ask them to share their stories / thoughts with you if it will help others!
A friend of mine developed CFS in a very odd way and has sworn by the treatments. She had breast implants that leaked in to her lymphatic system in her underarm and had to remove her lymph nodes as they were “glued” together. I do believe she mentioned she was going to share her story and treatment with Kambo in the media.

 

[Hip]

I can definitely ask them to share their stories / thoughts with you if it will help others!

It would be very interesting to hear these accounts. Info about how much kambo they use, how often they take the kambo, any side effects, etc would be very useful to hear.

I've heard that leaking silicone implants can cause ME/CFS, or an ME/CFS-like illness. Silicone affects the immune system, which might explain how it causes illness.

 

[Melissa89]

@Hip I will reach out to them today and ask them to give a run down of their Kambo regimen- I’m aware they all do high doses (6 burn dots). Every time I see them they have new scars so it’s frequent treatments.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I do have a high tolerance for alternative treatments and medicines so I think I will fare well.

Thats funny!!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

One idea I had was send off my kambo stick to get gamma irradiated, a food sterilization process, which will kill most pathogens it might contain. Then it should be safer for intranasal use.)

Would microwaving it work to kill germs?

 

[Hip]

Would microwaving it work to kill germs?

Would not have thought so, as microwaves are not ionizing radiation, which is necessary to break the bonds in the DNA of pathogens (that how gamma irradiation works).

Of course if you heat up the kambo you would sterilize it, but the heat may also destroy the delicate peptide compounds in the kambo.

According to this article, for dry heat sterilization, you need 160ºC for 2 hours. I did actually try this with a bit of kambo, placing it in the oven at this temperature. Then when I later tried it intranasally, I noticed it was much weaker, probably losing half its potency. But I guess this could be countered just by doubling the dose.


The trouble with the burn method is that if you start using kambo weekly, after years of use you end up with a lot of tiny burn scars on your body (though these are only small, circles of 2 or 3 mm in diameter). I've read that these scars eventually disappear after 6 months or so, but I am not entirely sure if they do fully vanish. The burn method is apparently quite painless, but the issue may be the long-lasting burn marks. But then if it puts your ME/CFS into remission, perhaps a few little marks is a price worth paying.

 

[frozenborderline]

I have a friend who does not have me/cfs but has probable mcas, ibs, and generally toxin induced issues and benefits from mold avoidance. He has found kambo to be of benefit and has done full dose kambo.

Its intense stuff though and I would be wary od it when w
One is weak and may have heart issues etc

 

[Hip]

Its intense stuff though and I would be wary od it when w

In a 2016 post on the kambo forum, Jox said he started using daily microdoses of kambo to treat his ME/CFS, rather than the full dose taken once weekly.

Microdosing is a lot less intense than the full dose. With microdosing you don't purge at both ends like you do with the full dose, which makes things a lot easier!

Here is a 2013 post of mine about my intranasal microdosing experience using 1 mg of kambo snorted as a powder:

Within about a minute, I started to feel tingling effects in my nose. After around 2 minutes or so, my face and all the skin on my body went bright red, as blood was flushed to the surface. (This red flushing of the skin looked very similar to a "niacin flush", if anyone is familiar with that). My heart rate went up a little, but not that much. There was no dizziness. There was no face or throat swelling at all. The effects lasted for less than 5 minutes, before the flushed skin and the raised heart beat went back to normal. It was an extremely mild experience, and it evoked no fear or apprehension at all. Anyone could do this very light dose.

At this very low dose of 1 mg of kambo, I only felt only the very slightest sense of nausea, and I had only a very slight sense of rumbling or movement in my bowels. But I was nowhere near getting sick, or needing to defecate, both of which normally happen on a full dose of kambo.

No mental state changes occurred at all during my experience: I remained calm, focused and unchanged mentally throughout. That is to say, there were no psychoactive effects at all.

My nasal cavity was very slightly sore afterwards, for several hours; but was fine by the next day. I have read elsewhere that people snorting kambo sometimes find it burns the nose a little. At the very low 1 mg dose I used, the soreness was very slight, but I expect higher doses of kambo may produce a little more nasal soreness.

Again, let me add a warning against intranasal administration, due to the slight risk of catching an infectious disease. Though possibly the intranasal route may be OK if you sterilize the kambo before use.

 

[frozenborderline]

Thats interesting but I wonder if some--if not all-- of the benefit comes from the intense purging.

If one is really dealing with a toxin mediated illness and gut motility etc is impaired ...

But kambo is interesting because it could have so so many mechanisms of action. The antibacterial and antiviral , the purging, the opioid agonism--all a heady brew. I have more interest in it than many faddish alternative treatments, but i also have a heart arrhythmia i need to investigate ans some other thinfs--beforr trying something this intense

 

[Hip]

Thats interesting but I wonder if some--if not all-- of the benefit comes from the intense purging.

Well Jox was doing weekly full-dose kambo for his ME/CFS for several years, and then switched to daily microdosing instead, with no apparent loss of efficacy. So that suggests the purging is not doing much. Some of the regular kambo users think the purging is part of the purification, but that might just be psychological.

i also have a heart arrhythmia i need to investigate ans some other thinfs--beforr trying something this intense

Yes, with the rapid heart rate induced by kambo, it's probably not wise for anyone with heart conditions.

Just noticed that SelfHacked has a long article on kambo, in which he points out the risks.

 

[Melissa89]

Thats interesting but I wonder if some--if not all-- of the benefit comes from the intense purging.

If one is really dealing with a toxin mediated illness and gut motility etc is impaired ...

But kambo is interesting because it could have so so many mechanisms of action. The antibacterial and antiviral , the purging, the opioid agonism--all a heady brew. I have more interest in it than many faddish alternative treatments, but i also have a heart arrhythmia i need to investigate ans some other thinfs--beforr trying something this intense

The Kambo practitioner (I think that’s what you call them?!) that I reached out to has asked me to rule out any heart issues prior to doing my first treatment so it would be wise to do that!!
I was a bit alarmed when he said that but I know way too many people who have come come out the other end feeling great.
I hope it is better than my ayahuasca experience!!

 

[frozenborderline]

Well Jox was doing weekly full-dose kambo for his ME/CFS for several years, and then switched to daily microdosing instead, with no apparent loss of efficacy. So that suggests the purging is not doing much. Some of the regular kambo users think the purging is part of the purification, but that might just be psychological.

This anecdote is worth taking into account but I'm not sure it does wholly prove the purging is not part of the effect. For one, wouldn't a microdose still have vasodilating effects (as suggested by the flush) and small increase in gut motility even if one is not shitting and puking a lot? Vasodilation can affect the mobilization of toxins, and a small increase in gut motility can help toxins move out faster

 

[frozenborderline]

es, with the rapid heart rate induced by kambo, it's probably not wise for anyone with heart conditions.

Mine may be benign ans i have reason to think its ME/POTS/CCI related. I had right bundle branch block show up.
I need to have an echo ans some blood work to make sure I'm not havinga serious heart problem.
My tachycardia and pots are certainly better since mold avoidance but are still there

 

[Hip]

This anecdote is worth taking into account but I'm not sure it does wholly prove the purging is not part of the effect.

Well, I read one account of the intense vomiting caused by kambo, where they mentioned you can see yellowish liquid in the vomit, presumed to be bile. So you might certainly be cleaning out the gallbladder.