Is growing your own probiotic yoghurt possible?

[maryb]

Thanks xrunner.

 

[shannah]

I'm new to all of this, am a little confused by it and wondering if people here would be kind enough to jump in and offer some direction. I have already read the entire thread and followed the links posted but still feel unsure and of course, fighting through the fog.

I've never made yogurt before but would like to try making it using the Mutaflor. Looking at the instructions on Dr. Myhill's page, it calls for 5 ml of the Mutaflor suspension in 1/2 litre unsweetened soya milk. What would the equivalency be using the capsules instead of the suspension?

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Growing_Mutaflor

If I were to double the recipe, would it seem reasonable to double everything? (milk, sugar, Mutaflor)

This recipe calls for 2 dessert spoons of sugar. Is the sugar an absolute necessity? And if so, would xylitol work as a replacement. I believe xylitol is corn sugar if I remember correctly.

It says to reserve a couple of tablespoons of the finished yogurt to make the next batch. How long can you actually keep doing this before you need to start anew with fresh Mutaflor?

Does anyone have tips on what to look for in yogurt making machines? I don't have one as yet. Eventually, I would also like to try making the yogurt with Align and with Culturelle.

Thanks so much for any help you can offer.

 

[beaverfury]

I've been making jars of kefir in an esky partially filled with water, warmed with a tropical fish heater.
They have a built in thermostat and temperature dial to keep water at constant temp. Works good.

 

[knackers323]

Hi guys

You can culture the s. boulardii in cow milk?

Is it possible to culture the prescript assist probiotic?

 

[anne_likes_red]

I've seen it suggested that boulardii should be added to a fermentation after the milk has coagulated. So,maybe use some live yogurt containing lactobaccilus and bifidus as a starter then 6 - 8 hours into the fermentation add the boulardii? I haven't tried this yet but may do next week. Apparently the addition of boulardii increases the lifespan and the viability of the other strains.

Problem with culturing a multi strain like PA is that one may dominate. Milk may not be the preferred culture medium for some of the SBOs either.

 

[knackers323]

I've seen it suggested that boulardii should be added to a fermentation after the milk has coagulated. So,maybe use some live yogurt containing lactobaccilus and bifidus as a starter then 6 - 8 hours into the fermentation add the boulardii? I haven't tried this yet but may do next week. Apparently the addition of boulardii increases the lifespan and the viability of the other strains.

Problem with culturing a multi strain like PA is that one may dominate. Milk may not be the preferred culture medium for some of the SBOs either.

If you do this with the boulardii please let us know.

Have you found that all store brought probiotics can be cultured?

 

[anne_likes_red]

I haven't done any multiple strain cultures from a store bought probiotic apart from biokult. That made something similar to standard yogurt. Others (single strains) I've researched a bit first to see what growth media they prefer. I've tried a number of single strains (mutaflor, LGG, l casei shirota, l plantarum, b infantis, b subtilis) and all have worked OK.

 

[knackers323]

Anne

Apart from different milks and soy what other mediums can be used?

 

[deltaforce]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread.

Great thread. Thanks to all those contributed, learned a lot.

This post is for Ann (anne_likes_red) to confirm the process of Multaflor yogurt. I have yogourmet and love it. Depending on the culture used for inoculation, I get a wide variety of yogurt. With Greek yogurt thick and otherwise little thin.

For Mutaflor, if I understood correctly, you just put one frozen capsule in the UHT milk and let it go for 22-24 hours, right?
If thats correct,
- Why did you freeze the capsule before putting it in the culture?
- Why did you prefer UHT milk? I don't buy UHT milk, mainly because all of them are homogenized and I prefer non-homogenized milk. Do you have any idea if non-UHT non-homogenized (or even raw milk) will work?
- For re culturing, hold old frozen culture has worked in your experiments?

I plan to make a quick trip across the border to get Mutaflor (I have Ulcerative colitis and its in flare at the moment. Prednisone isn't cutting it). With the limited stock that I will be able to get, I have to maximize its use.

Thanks in advance for all ideas.

 

[hahahoha]

i tried making yogurt with reuteri powder without success. After 12 hours it remains liquid. And then i read about the need of streptococcus thermophilus for that yogurt consistency. So my question is, will the bacteria i added proliferated, but only without that yogurt consistency? It tasted exactly the same fresh out of carton tho..

 

[Cipher]

@anne_likes_red I'm currently reading into Mutaflor yogurt and I wonder how much of the yogurt that's a reasonable amount to consume per day? Is it 1 teaspoon per day, 1 deciliter etc? I have no idea how potent the yogurt will be!

 

[Carl]

I have fermented a lot of my own yoghurt and after starting out with supermarket yoghurts as starters I moved to various capsule probiotics. I have used Saccharomyces Boulardii capsules which came out very well, ie virtually no curds and whey even when left fermenting longer than needed where bacteria tend to not do so well because they produces more and more curds and whey if over fermented.

An important point in my fermenting which I will make everyone aware of is that capsules are very weak ie the CFU of capsules is considerably lower than yoghurt in my experience. When using a capsule as a starter the time to reach a set yoghurt state for a 200ml yoghurt pot is around 16 hours whereas using about 1/3 to 1/2 of a 200ml pot as a starter making 14-20 x 200ml pots takes only about 3.5 hours to reach a set state.

I do vigorously boil my milk because it breaks up the milk proteins which helps the yoghurt set. I only use cheap powdered skimmed milk with a higher concentration than mixing regular milk. I do not drink powdered milk, I only use it for yoghurt making.

Also be aware that many electric yoghurt makers can reach very high temperatures. I tested mine and it was reaching 60C in the centre. I did make some modifications to prevent that. However actually testing the temperature of the yoghurt is the important point because that is likely to be lower than the heated chamber temperature. Mine was still higher than ideal so reducing it did help.

I have read that using a variable temperature can be helpful when fermenting yoghurt. Starting out with a high temperature for an hour or so and then lowering the temperature to the low 40's C for the remainder.

 

[pattismith]

I am doing my soja yogurt with Probiopure capsules (Morinaga BB536 is a proprietary strain ofBifidobacterium longum developed by Japan’s second-largest dairy company. BB536 is one of the world’s most researched and effective probiotic strains, and the top-selling probiotic ingredient in Japan).

it takes a bit longer to have it done, and the taste is not fun, but it works, and it is less costly than taking capsules.I think.

 

[Hazeleyes99]

I am about to try making cultured butter with Miyarisan (C. butyricum). Another user used it for yogurt, so it should be doable. The milk I have is grassfed homogenized, never done this before so hope it works.

Will also try a little bit of yogurt to see how it comes out. Just single strain. I also have a starter kit used for saurkraut and other cultured veg, but I am interested in increasing butyrate for gut healing.

 

[Hazeleyes99]

I have fermented a lot of my own yoghurt and after starting out with supermarket yoghurts as starters I moved to various capsule probiotics. I have used Saccharomyces Boulardii capsules which came out very well, ie virtually no curds and whey even when left fermenting longer than needed where bacteria tend to not do so well because they produces more and more curds and whey if over fermented.

An important point in my fermenting which I will make everyone aware of is that capsules are very weak ie the CFU of capsules is considerably lower than yoghurt in my experience. When using a capsule as a starter the time to reach a set yoghurt state for a 200ml yoghurt pot is around 16 hours whereas using about 1/3 to 1/2 of a 200ml pot as a starter making 14-20 x 200ml pots takes only about 3.5 hours to reach a set state.

I do vigorously boil my milk because it breaks up the milk proteins which helps the yoghurt set. I only use cheap powdered skimmed milk with a higher concentration than mixing regular milk. I do not drink powdered milk, I only use it for yoghurt making.

Also be aware that many electric yoghurt makers can reach very high temperatures. I tested mine and it was reaching 60C in the centre. I did make some modifications to prevent that. However actually testing the temperature of the yoghurt is the important point because that is likely to be lower than the heated chamber temperature. Mine was still higher than ideal so reducing it did help.

I have read that using a variable temperature can be helpful when fermenting yoghurt. Starting out with a high temperature for an hour or so and then lowering the temperature to the low 40's C for the remainder.

You have yogurt with yeast (s. Boulardii)? I did not even know that was possible. I am really tired of spending $30 a month on Florastor, I would love to be able to culture it.

 

[Carl]

I am about to try making cultured butter with Miyarisan (C. butyricum). Another user used it for yogurt, so it should be doable. The milk I have is grassfed homogenized, never done this before so hope it works.

Will also try a little bit of yogurt to see how it comes out. Just single strain. I also have a starter kit used for saurkraut and other cultured veg, but I am interested in increasing butyrate for gut healing.

Gut healing does not work, it will not fix the problems which are caused by pathogens and not caused by easily fixable methods like detailed on this and many other forums. None of the things recommended work because none of the supplements such as L-Glutamine has any effect against biofilm protected micro-organisms. When the infection is destroyed, the digestive system heals within 15 minutes WITHOUT any supplements. That should reassure anyone who has problems with L-Glutamine because it is not required for healing the gut, normal blood levels are sufficient.

You have yogurt with yeast (s. Boulardii)? I did not even know that was possible. I am really tired of spending $30 a month on Florastor, I would love to be able to culture it.

Yes, I purchased a small pot of about 30 caps to use as a starter but rarely use them because a previous batch is faster ie has a much higher CFU count. It is only when I start fresh that I spend the extra time starting with a capsule. Most of the time that is not necessary. Some probiotics are sold in tester sizes of around 7 capsules, which works out better, therefore it is worth looking out for those if you can get them cheaply.

As I mentioned, the yeast Saccharomyces Boulardii came out better than any bacteria in that the consistency was better and the fermentation time was less crucial. ie it was far more forgiving.

 

[Hazeleyes99]

Gut healing does not work, it will not fix the problems which are caused by pathogens and not caused by easily fixable methods like detailed on this and many other forums. None of the things recommended work because none of the supplements such as L-Glutamine has any effect against biofilm protected micro-organisms. When the infection is destroyed, the digestive system heals within 15 minutes WITHOUT any supplements. That should reassure anyone who has problems with L-Glutamine because it is not required for healing the gut, normal blood levels are sufficient.


Yes, I purchased a small pot of about 30 caps to use as a starter but rarely use them because a previous batch is faster ie has a much higher CFU count. It is only when I start fresh that I spend the extra time starting with a capsule. Most of the time that is not necessary. Some probiotics are sold in tester sizes of around 7 capsules, which works out better, therefore it is worth looking out for those if you can get them cheaply.

As I mentioned, the yeast Saccharomyces Boulardii came out better than any bacteria in that the consistency was better and the fermentation time was less crucial. ie it was far more forgiving.

Maybe I should have said gut health, then, because butyrate is recognized as a general positive thing for intestines. I know the common ways to attack biofilms, and have read some of your posts. I am a little curious about why you seem so sure it takes 15min to resolve damage from excess inflammation but I am not going to discount your subjective experiences in your health journey by being critical of that comment. I agree though, that if you beat back the bad bacteria and their biofilms, that you are basically on easy street afterwards.

 

[ljimbo423]

I am a little curious about why you seem so sure it takes 15min to resolve damage from excess inflammation but I am not going to discount your subjective experiences in your health journey by being critical of that comment. I agree though, that if you beat back the bad bacteria and heir biofilms, that you are basically on easy street afterwards.

I think the 15 minute timeline he gave was a bit of an exaggeration.

While I agree that once the bad bacteria are removed the gut will heal fast on it's own. It can take a long time to completely get rid of the overgrowth for many people with deep seated dysbiosis.

In cases where the dysbiosis can't be resolved in one or two courses of Rifaximin or herbal antibiotics (ie, a few weeks to a month or 2) I think it makes good sense to use supplements to help heal increased intestinal permeability along the way.

Allison Siebecker at SIBO.com, who has been treating SIBO and leaky gut in patients for years, says the gut can heal in as little as 30 days after the bacterial overgrowth is treated. Which makes sense to me.

I have been treating dysbiosis for 14 months with daily biofilm disruptors, antibiotic herbs, low carb diet etc. and it's still not gone. Although I have made tremendous progress!

I also eat 1 1/2 to 2 tablespoons of butter every day for the butyrate in it. It's about 3 - 4% butyrate and take glutamine and aloe vera, for there gut healing aspects.

Jim

 

[Hazeleyes99]

I think the 15 minute timeline he gave was a bit of an exaggeration.

While I agree that once the bad bacteria are removed the gut will heal fast on it's own. It can take a long time to completely get rid of the overgrowth for many people with deep seated dysbiosis.

In cases where the dysbiosis can't be resolved in one or two courses of Rifaximin or herbal antibiotics (ie, a few weeks to a month or 2) I think it makes good sense to use supplements to help heal increased intestinal permeability along the way.

Allison Siebecker at SIBO.com, who has been treating SIBO and leaky gut in patients for years, says the gut can heal in as little as 30 days after the bacterial overgrowth is treated. Which makes sense to me.

I have been treating dysbiosis for 14 months with daily biofilm disruptors, antibiotic herbs, low carb diet etc. and it's still not gone. Although I have made tremendous progress!

I also eat 1 1/2 to 2 tablespoons of butter every day for the butyrate in it. It's about 3 - 4% butyrate and take glutamine and aloe vera, for there gut healing aspects.

Jim

I would like to hear your herb and enzyme etc protocol.

Fwiw, just using coconut oil, oil of oregano, fresh garlic made me so ill the first time. I hesitate to self diagnose a herx reaction after reading the neuroticism on candida websites, but surely thats what it was.Then I added Interfase enzymes and EDTA, and Sf722, but to be honest, felt the greatest effect from the cheaper stuff. I kind of let off on it for the past couple months and started focussing on good diet and lifestyle, but I can tell I still need to use a good protocol again. I have been experimenting with things like NAC and various therapies like LLLT and sauna and stress management. My next herbal antibiotic and biofilm protocol are going to be pretty intense. I also am implementing some peptides like Epitalon and Thymalin for immune support after. I am trying to make sure my habits and detox pathways are as healthy as I can be to downplay whatever stress I would go through when treating the gut again.

Do you have an opinion on Rifaximin? I treated issues as yeast based at the time but it is very likely the yeast was just a component of some bacterial issue.


I needed some time off of that stuff, I think I literally got minor PTSD from how anxious and panicky I got on it when killing stuff. It was not fun, my mind was a mess.

 

[ljimbo423]

I would like to hear your herb and enzyme etc protocol.

I'm on a fairly mild protocol. I take digestive enzymes with each meal but none in between for biofilm disruption. I take one capsule a day of oil of oregano, thyme, olive leaf extract and holy basil for bacterial overgrowth.

I take quercetin and curcumin for biofilms and inflammation.

Fwiw, just using coconut oil, oil of oregano, fresh garlic made me so ill the first time. I hesitate to self diagnose a herx reaction after reading the neuroticism on candida websites, but surely thats what it was.

I call that reaction die-off symptoms, from the dead yeast and bacterial products flooding the bloodstream. It's that die-off reaction that has kept me from speeding up my recovery. If I take too many herbs to kill off the gut bugs, I feel too sick to function well.

I can tell I still need to use a good protocol again. I have been experimenting with things like NAC and various therapies like LLLT and intense hyperthermiam and stress management. My next herbal antibiotic and biofilm protocol are going to be pretty intense. I also am implementing some peptides like Epitalon and Thymalin for immune support after. I am trying to make sure my habits and detox pathways are as healthy as I can be to downplay whatever stress I would go through when treating the gut again.

That's a good idea to keep your detox pathways functioning as good as possible. I think CFS creates an enormous amount of oxidative stress which significantly depletes our bodies of antioxidants and other nutrients needed for the liver to function optimally.

Dandelion root and burdock root are good liver supportive herbs but there are many more also.

I needed some time off of that stuff, I think I literally got minor PTSD from how anxious and panicky I got on it when killing stuff. It was not fun, my mind was a mess.

Yes, the toxins from the bugs have an powerful ability to cause tremendous amounts of anxiety and panic. In fact, I had a severe panic disorder for years that is gone now from lowering the level of bad bacteria in my gut!!

I still have s a lot of anxiety BUT the massive panic attacks are gone!

Jim