Is growing your own probiotic yoghurt possible?

topaz

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Im a newbie to this thread and am going to chime in as I have been researching probiotics/good gut flora for a few days now.

I strongly believe that restoring gut flora is a key to CFS. The link between CFS/Fibromyagia/IBS is very strong. Most CFS/Fibromyalgia sufferers have been shown to have abnormally high levels of bad gut bacteria (SIBO).

I think kefir is much superior to yoghurt. It contains many more multiples of probiotics than yoghurt and

[There was a post on this thread (rustyj and anniekim) concerned about kefir containing yeast. I did a quick google and came up with these two quotes from separate sites "People with candida albicans may be worried about the yeast's in Kefir. Experience shows that the disease is an imbalance of intestinal flora and friendly bacteria. Yeast helps to rebalance the intestinal flora and fight candida albicans" and "Those of you, who are into kefir drinking for eliminating candida overgrowth, may be scared to death learning that kefir culture contains also candida yeast. Don't panic, all is OK! The candida yeast in kefir is a vicious cannibalistic sister of the infamous Candida albicans".

If you google "kefir and yeast allergy" you will find some good information. I am not clear as to how specific your yeast allergy is ie is it related to candida or not? Some posts I found on this google search would address your issues as you know your symptoms best. I think yoghurt contains yeast also but please check this as I do not have a yeast allergy so have not focused on this.

Kefir can be made from water also (called water kefir).

I am about to make my first batch and start.

For those that may need to avoid kefir and yoghurt due to their yeast, other fermented probiotics such as sauerkraut, kombucha tea etc may help a lot too.

I have also read from several sources that when taking probioitic pills its best to take the "pearl" form.

Look forward to learning more.
 

RustyJ

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Sorry Adster, missed your post. I did notice that one. In fact I think it is the only one of its sort now on the Oz market. Only trouble is there is no thermostat. None on a lot of the overseas ones either. Not sure if it really matters. But it does look like that is the one I'll end up getting, if I get off my butt and get it.

I am a little maxed out money wise. Just bought a cheap coffee grinder. Decided to french press with coffee beans. Thought it would be cheaper, but also less additives than instant coffee. After recalculating, cost-wise is about the same, but tastes better. Coffee blender works well. The coffee does not seem to upset my stomach as much. Negative is that I can't seem to get coffee hot enough. It cools down in the time it has to brew. Anyone have any tricks? Sorry to get off topic.

Other negative is having the energy to go to fuss of grinding beans and brewing. Have to get into a habit.
 

Adster

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I got one of those Easy Yogurt makers off ebay yesterday secondhad, should be here in a few days. I tried an easiyo with powdered goats milk and a couple of probiotic caps but it didn't set. I've been drinking it though, I'm almost used to the sour taste now. Encouragingly I seem to be able to tolerate it ok, and my gut might even be a bit better if anything. I found this place too which has starters and even some kefir granules http://www.cheeselinks.com.au/index.html
 

RustyJ

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I got one of those Easy Yogurt makers off ebay yesterday secondhad, should be here in a few days. I tried an easiyo with powdered goats milk and a couple of probiotic caps but it didn't set. I've been drinking it though, I'm almost used to the sour taste now. Encouragingly I seem to be able to tolerate it ok, and my gut might even be a bit better if anything. I found this place too which has starters and even some kefir granules http://www.cheeselinks.com.au/index.html
Did you bid? I have lost everyone I entered. Let me know how the Easy Yoghurt maker goes. I am back to using the Easiyo together with Activia yoghurt which is bifudo. Sets pretty hard. So my earlier issues were with viability of the probiotic. Yet to order stabilized bifudo from iHerb.
 

RustyJ

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It was a buy it now, not super cheap but still a fair bit less than a new one. I'd keep watching it, I saw an old electric sunbeam one quite cheap buy it now a few weeks ago. I've got some of this coming too to try http://www.jarrow.com/product/539/Ideal_Bowel_Support
Stabilized. Hope it works for your. Does the Easy have a 24 hr timer? There's not much info on them. Also no thermostat, just a heating filament.

Have noticed a few Korean? makers. I think they ship from overseas. But they have 24 hr timers, and thermostats I think.
 

Adster

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The easy has a 10 hr timer, but I'm handy with a screwdriver so i can bypass it if need be. Will let you know how it goes. The Korean ones looked interesting, but I'm always wary of the materials they use in that type of imported stuff, they are often really toxic.
 

Adster

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Looks like my second batch of yogurt has set really well. I just pulled it out of the machine after about 23 hours of incubating. I drained off the whey to make it set thicker, there was a lot of it. I used powdered goats milk, 4 mixed probiotic caps and a mutaflor cap in 1ltr of water. I know others have been doing individual strains but I wanted to try a mixed one to see how it went. Will report back on the taste when it has cooled. I like the Easy Yogurt machine, it's well designed and pretty compact.
 

RustyJ

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Hi Adster. How did you get around the timer problem? Have you considered using a glass insert - would it be possible?
 

Adster

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The timer wasn't an issue, I just reset it before bed and then when I got up in the morning. It's rare that I'd be in bed for more than 10 hours so it's fine. Yep you could find a jar to fit it no worries I reckon. The one with it seems find though.
 

aquariusgirl

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I am using a dev tec ..it's an element with a built in thermometer that you plug in. Originally used in photo labs back in the day to heat chemical solutions to make prints...So anyway, I get a pan full of water, stick the dev tech in it, it heats the water to a steady 110 degrees ( double checked with a thermometer) and then I put my pyrex dish with culture in water like a bain marie. Seems to work.

It is an awkward shape though. You need a long roasting pan.

So a couple of questions for you veterans: is it important to keep the lid on during the 24 hr culturing process? No pulling the lid off to peek @ the consistency?
How soon should one freeze the future starters? Hard to find containers small enough for this purpose, no?

I have some florastor on hand, which is S. boulardi (a yeast). Would that be worth culturing?

EDTA: get a load of this.. S. boulardi reduces IL8 (mine is thru the roof) & reduces gut permeability & may stimulate the maturation & turnover of small intestine enterocytes..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._boulardii
 
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You can grow it aq, easy peasy...but it tastes like beer! It grows in soy or hemp like wildfire. A few hours @ 100F and it's done. Watch it doesn't explode out the top of the jar and take over your kitchen... ;)

PS, Re below ideally keep the lid on and don't peek. You'll minimise the risk of airborne bacteria getting in that way. Love the use of old photographic equipment!
 
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Saccharomyces boulardii and SIgA.

The following extract is from A Novel Approach to Treating Depression
How Probiotics Can Shift Mood by Modulating Cytokines

By Michael E. Ash, B.S.c. (Hons) D.O. N.D. F.Dip ION

http://www.nleducation.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/ARGNewsletter_September2009.pdf

He's talking about treating depression but some of the cytokines sound familiar. He suggests S boulardii should be given first in some instances, to ensure other probiotics are effective.

I have discovered that in order for probiotics to work most effectively, the gut lining first needs to be matured through the selective use of probiotics that specifically stimulate SIgA (secretory Immunoglubulin A), and must then be exposed to key strain specific probiotics. SIgA is the great, forgotten immunoglobulin, but Ive championed it for twenty years because it is so beneficial to the GI tract.

SIgA determines our ability to communicate to our immune system exactly what bacteria we are harboring and what to do about it. If you dont have enough SIgA, you can consume probiotics forever and never transfer enough of their relevant information to the appropriate immune tissues in enough volume to impact health. SIgA and the T-regulatory family of cells work in a cooperative manner to maintain tolerance, yet SIgA requires bacteria in the mucosal lumen to be stimulated. The use of an anti-inflammatory, SIgA-promoting yeast species can be a valuable adjuvant to optimizing gastrointestinal immune tolerance.

The Treatment Plan

The first step is to determine if your patient is an atypical depressive. Typical features include: a tendency towards excessive sleep without feeling refreshed, cravings for carbohydrates, low energy, a feeling their limbs are heavy, poor response to SSRIs, more often female, and highly sensitized to stress and relationship breakdowns. I also do an organic acid urinary profile to look for tryptophan catabolite ratios: Quinolinate/Kynurenate. These are metabolites of tryptophan that can lead to excitotoxicity and excess stimulation of NMDA receptors (see pp 14, NO/ONOO- A Brief Summary of the Work of Martin Pall, Ph.D.).
If a patient has a reasonably good clinical workup to support a diagnosis of atypical depression, and has raised ammonia, quinolinic acid or kynurerine in the urine (all indications of dysbiosis) I consider it likely their depression is a GI-mediated immune event. You can also check their stool for pathogens, or their blood for raised levels of cytokines such as Il-6, Il-1, IL-4, and TNF? as well as the anti-inflammatory IL-10. Also consider increased gut permeability as a compounding barrier defect allowing cell particulates (LPS) to trigger inflammatory cytokines.

If so, the next step is to do testing to establish levels of SIgA, the predominant immunoglobulin in the body, and the key anti-inflammatory, immunomodulating molecule protecting our mucosa in the mouth, nose, lungs, gut, and vaginal tissue. If you give probiotics in a cavalier manner to someone who does not have enough SIgA, you wont get a good clinical response because of diminished immune interpretation. In other words, the immune system does not process information from bacteria and pathogens as effectively as it needs to when levels of SIgA are low. I discovered nearly twenty years ago that if we can improve an individuals SIgA status, we will then see a change in how they respond to subsequent probiotics. I measure SIgA from a salivary sample, since its systemic across mucosal tissues.
If SIgA is low, I give Saccharomyces boulardii, which is superb at promoting SIgA and has hundreds of peer-reviewed studies demonstrating its safety and effectiveness. I begin with as little as capsule in children and capsule in adults, because this probiotic is very potent. Saccharomyces boulardii helps the body break down carbohydrates more effectively, reduces gut candida and neutralizes clostridium difficile toxins A and B, thus improving mucosal barrier effectiveness. It also lowers inflammatory IL-8.

Once SIgA levels are up, I add in Lactobacillus GG, another probiotic with hundreds of studies demonstrating its benefit. This probiotic is a standout because it is so well studied. No other probiotic except Saccharomyces boulardii comes close. LGG is a known inducer of anti-inflammatory cytokines in humans like IL-10. It also increases the production of regulatory T-cells, which help to maintain control over inflammation. LGG is a human-derived strain and I believe using human strains (ones that have been isolated from the gut of a healthy human) is important because they are well recognized by the innate immune system receptors and are efficient at priming immunoregulation. They will, when used correctly, ameliorate mucosal inflammation in the gut, liver, synovium and brain. Both LGG and Saccharomyces boulardii are the best studied and probably most effective probiotics we have today.
PS aq, re growing S boulardii...I think I only did it twice. I felt it probably wasn't multiplying much in that time, just feeding on sugars and making something beer-like. Like you said theres not much info available. I read the above article around that time and decided it was probably worth supplementing with Sacc. boulardii capsules rather than messing around with them too much.
 

RustyJ

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The S boulardii sounds interesting.

I was sick of failures with my easiyo, not knowing exactly what problem(s) were (I suspect not maintaining temp), so much so I ventured onto ebay today and bought one of these expensive little babies after months of dithering. The glass jars and the 19 -hour timer with microprocessor in temp gauge did it for me, though I don't know how good the processor will be: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-MODE...Appliances&hash=item2569fce062#ht_5459wt_1037

I've just gone on gluten-free, salicylate-free, amine-free diet so things are pretty boring. Not much variety left. Considering suicide, lol. Hopefully yoghurt will help.
 

aquariusgirl

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Rusty, I checked out the model you bought... The only thing that would bug me is the small quantities you could make...??
How is it working out for you?

The S boulardii sounds interesting.

I was sick of failures with my easiyo, not knowing exactly what problem(s) were (I suspect not maintaining temp), so much so I ventured onto ebay and bought one of these expensive little babies after months of dithering. The glass jars and the 19 -hour timer with microprocessor in temp gauge did it for me, though I don't know how good the processor will be: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-MODE...Appliances&hash=item2569fce062#ht_5459wt_1037

I've just gone on gluten-free, salicylate-free, amine-free diet so things are pretty boring. Not much variety left. Considering suicide, lol. Hopefully yoghurt will help.
 

RustyJ

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Rusty, I checked out the model you bought... The only thing that would bug me is the small quantities you could make...??
How is it working out for you?
Aquariusgirl, haven't received it yet. Only ordered it yesterday (I missed out the critical word 'today') in my post. Re quantities, I am by myself so the 250 ml for each portion is more than enough for me. 1.75 litres all up is more than most makers. I also like the idea of keeping the other portions sealed till they are ready to be eaten.

They do have a much cheaper single container maker (1.5 litre). I couldn't find any reviews on either maker unfortunately, but the model I bought was selling like hot cakes here in Oz.
 

aquariusgirl

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Is there anything I can do to defrost my starter faster that is acceptable? I'm guessing the microwave is a no-no???
I had a slight hiccup with heating the soy milk...swapped thermometers half way thru .. with the end result that the milk was warming for 20 mins...Do you think I ruined that batch?
 
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No microwave. Setting the container of starter in warm water is probably best. Careful to keep it sterile.

The soy milk should be fine. Sugars will still be available for bacteria to feed on, but the end texture might be a bit different if it's gone as far as boiling point. I have boiled mine by mistake and it still worked.

HTH