Is Folic Acid the devil?

[seamyb]

I've recently started the simple methylation protocol with good results, even after only a week. I'm still only on crumbs of methylfolate though.

I have multivitamins with folic acid and can't find any with no folic acid... all I can find are ones with higher doses of methylfolate than I can handle right now. Assuming I don't have MTHFR mutations (I should really test at some point), will the folic acid in the multi be detrimental?

Is there some aspect of having a methylation block that means we can't convert folic acid to 5-MTHF, even in spite of having normal MTHFR? With Rich's suggestion of folinic acid, this would have to mean that DHFR is where the problem is, as this is the only step not common to both (I think?).

Has anybody done the SMP with folic on top and had good results? I assume people are having good results from the SMP long-term?

Thanks

 

[Pyrrhus]

I have multivitamins with folic acid and can't find any with no folic acid... all I can find are ones with higher doses of methylfolate than I can handle right now.

Personally, I have solved that problem by using the B multivitamin called "B minus" from the company Seeking Health. This multivitamin includes all the B vitamins in relatively reasonable quantities, but without any folate or B12. This allows you to separately decide upon your own folate or B12 dosages.
https://www.seekinghealth.com/products/b-minus-100-capsules

I happen to be a big fan of this B multivitamin, although I would prefer if they used niacinamide instead of niacin. But seeing how terrible most B multivitamins are, I'm willing to overlook it.

Is there some aspect of having a methylation block that means we can't convert folic acid to 5-MTHF, even in spite of having normal MTHFR? With Rich's suggestion of folinic acid, this would have to mean that DHFR is where the problem is, as this is the only step not common to both (I think?).

Yes, DHFR can convert the synthetic folic acid into a natural, usable form of folate. But that's not really what DHFR is "meant" to do. DHFR exists in order to convert DHF into THF. Ingesting too much synthetic folic acid can interfere with the proper purpose of DHFR.

 

[seamyb]

Thanks for this @Pyrrhus . Explains why it might be better to avoid folic acid generally. Especially when trying to heal related pathways.

Personally, I have solved that problem by using the B multivitamin called "B minus" from the company Seeking Health.

Ah! So, do you try to get all the minerals and trace elements from supplements? What I like about multivitamins is that they contain all the thinks like molybdenum, selenium, iodine etc. I have all the Bs as separate supplements. Thiamine changed the course of my illness and I wanted finely grained control over the Bs. So it's really the trace minerals and the vitamins I'm not particularly interested in that I want from a multi.

 

[ljimbo423]

I have multivitamins with folic acid and can't find any with no folic acid... all I can find are ones with higher doses of methylfolate than I can handle right now.

Life Extension's "Two Per Day" capsules are what I take. I only take one a day. They do have 200 mcg of methylfolate in each of them, so you might not be ready for that high a dose yet. They don't have any folic acid.

After reading a post here at PR, I found that going up about 50-100 mcgs of methylfolate every 3-4 days gave me little to no side effects. Before that it took me 3-4 months to get up to 50 mcgs a day, suffering all the way.

I was able to go up to 6.4 mg a day of methylfolate this way, in several weeks!

BTW, your thread heading gave me a good laugh!

 

[seamyb]

They do have 200 mcg of methylfolate in each of them, so you might not be ready for that high a dose yet.

This is it, once I get up to these kinds of doses I'll be able to handle these multis. I'll take one with folic acid every other day until I'm at these doses and then replace.

I was able to go up to 6.4 mg a day of methylfolate this way

Wow. That kind of dose would make me do back flips. Is the plan to continue with this dose forever? I presume it has helped your CFS? I'm hoping I can find some sort of normalcy from moderate doses and then (here's the fantasy) be cured completely with no need for supplements, barring maybe a multivitamin.

I've made huge strides with my illness with B12 and thiamine (I'm certain I was deficient in the latter). However, continuing to supplement both of these caused some symptoms like chest muscle pain and air hunger. Natural next step was to try this methylation thing. Tiny doses of methylfolate (after discovering 100 micros was too stimulating) has greatly improved my breathing problem after a short period. I'm more tired and a bit meh, but there is great promise here.

BTW, your thread heading gave me a good laugh!

Mamma said folic acid is the devil!

 

[ljimbo423]

Is the plan to continue with this dose forever? I presume it has helped your CFS?

I only take about 5 mg a day now of methylfolate. I plan to take whatever dose helps me the most. If there's comes a point where the price doesn't justify the benefits, I will stop taking it.

Yes, it does help my CFS. It helps with energy mostly but also helps some with brain fog.

Tiny doses of methylfolate (after discovering 100 micros was too stimulating) has greatly improved my breathing problem after a short period. I'm more tired and a bit meh, but there is great promise here.

Some of the fatigue you are experiencing could be from improving your livers ability to remove toxins from your body. This allows toxins that are stored in your cells to get dumped into the bloodstream, causing symptoms of detoxification, like fatigue, headaches etc.

Although methylation takes place in most cells of the body, many people don't know that about 80% of methylation takes place in the liver, to help the body detoxify.

Methylation is a primary method of removing toxins in the phase 2 liver detoxification process. Methylation converts toxins of all kinds from insoluble or fat-soluble compounds into water-soluble compounds.

Once these toxins are made water soluble they can then be easily eliminated from the body via watery fluids such as the urine, sweat and bile. If this does not occur, these toxins cannot be eliminated and they will build up in the body.

Reference

Mamma said folic acid is the devil!

She was probably right!

 

[Pyrrhus]

Ah! So, do you try to get all the minerals and trace elements from supplements?

Yes, I take separate supplements for magnesium, calcium, and selenium. Potassium when needed.