Is Apheresis an effective treatment for Long Covid and ME?

SWAlexander

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1638983428709.png
 
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The medical lab assistant is especially interesting. They're looking to hire somebody with experience with fluorescence microscopy, and he originally said they wanted somebody to start in late January, and then updated it to say they want somebody to start as soon as possible. So hopefully we will get some micro clot updates soon!
 

SWAlexander

Senior Member
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2,082
In the news:
Altered fibrin clot structure and dysregulated fibrinolysis contribute to thrombosis risk in severe COVID-19

Key Points
  • Elevated fibrinogen, in conjunction with accelerated formation of FXIIa, determines compact fibrin clot architecture in COVID-19 patients.
  • Dense fibrin network and dysregulated fibrinolysis collectively contribute to high incidence of thrombotic events in COVID-19.
The high incidence of thrombotic events suggests a possible role of the contact system pathway in COVID-19 pathology. Here, we demonstrate altered levels of factor XII (FXII) and its activation products in critically ill COVID-19 patients in comparison to patients with severe acute respiratory distress syndrome due to influenza virus (ARDS-influenza). Compatible with this data, we report rapid consumption of FXII in COVID-19, but not in ARDS-influenza, plasma. Interestingly, the lag phase in fibrin formation, triggered by the FXII activator kaolin, was not prolonged in COVID-19 as opposed to ARDS-influenza.
more at: https://ashpublications.org/bloodadvances/article/doi/10.1182/bloodadvances.2021004816/482891
 

SWAlexander

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2,082
Is this a blood test? What should I ask for specifically? VWF and Factor VIII?
Yes it is a blood test. A von Willebrand factor (vWF) antigen test measures the amount of a clotting factor called von Willebrand factor. The body's clotting factors work together in a special order, almost like pieces of a puzzle. When the last piece is in place, the clot develops. Oncology will test for all vWF.
Laboratory diagnosis of von Willebrand disease: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5600156/
 

bensmith

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1,547
I think it’s kind if strange they are using volunteers. It seems these clinics should be making enough to pay their employees. 1200 euros a pop and i assume 10 patients a day. 12,000 euros a day but can’t afford to pay their workers? Even if you only see 5 pateints a day thats 6,000 euros, 180,000 euros a month.
 
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The clinics are not using volunteers. An association created by volunteers offered to manage the extensive list of patients who want this treatment to make things more efficient. Less admin work for the clinics means more time for treatment and a faster turnaround for the patients.

The treatment is incredibly pricey, but help apheresis is not profitable. The clinics are not making money with it, in fact, they had to increase the price a bit weeks ago because they were losing money with us (we use the machines more time than cardiac patients). Most parts of the machine are one-use and need to be disposed of after treatment, and you need a technician taking care of you for hours.

I have to say, I don't know anyone involved, but they look very transparent to me with the process, and they provide an enormous amount of helpful information if you ask.
 
Messages
17
I think it’s kind if strange they are using volunteers. It seems these clinics should be making enough to pay their employees. 1200 euros a pop and i assume 10 patients a day. 12,000 euros a day but can’t afford to pay their workers? Even if you only see 5 pateints a day thats 6,000 euros, 180,000 euros a month.

I think it's more like €1,500 plus some fees per treatment now, but honestly, to me, an American, that sounds very low! My doctor bills my insurance company a few hundred dollars for a 15-minute appointment that involves no single-use equipment at all. These HELP apheresis sessions take a few hours and involve a lot of single-use equipment and medications. Plus there is all of the research and development (reading papers, collaborating with other doctors, trying things that don't work) that goes into it. I spoke to a doctor here in the US and they said that even with insurance, if you have a deductible, it might be cheaper to fly to Germany or Cyprus and pay out of pocket than to get this treatment here in America when it arrives.
 

Countrygirl

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Location
UK
I have been listening to Dr Bruce Patterson and his hypothesis on what causes Long Covid. He claims to be able to prevent the formation of the mico clots in patients early in the illness with a particular protocol and claims that he has a 80% success rate in treating Long Covid.

In this video he also makes a number of references to ME as he has used 50 ME patients in his research. He doesn't appear to be of the opinion that micro clots will be a major feature of ME as he claims there isn't much vascular inflammation. I am puzzled by his use of statins in ME as, in my experience, they cause a major relapse.

I have made notes as I listened and will paste them below if anyone is interested in the outline of the talk.

Dr Bruce Patterson on Long Covid and ME

Bruce Patterson is both a former Stanford researcher and Medical Director of Diagnostic Virology at Stanford University Hospitals and Clinics, He has co-authored around 90 papers – most prior to 2011 – at about the time he left the University and created the IncellDx diagnostic laboratory.

Over the past two years Patterson has concentrated on publishing and has co-authored seven papers on COVID-19 with more publications due.

In June of 2020, Patterson reported that he’d identified the cause of the so-called cytokine storm in COVID-19.

Quote, “When we were developing a cytokine quantification assay for possible COVID trials in China, we discovered that infected patients had consistently high levels of CCL5/RANTES in plasma which in some cases was 100 times normal depending on the severity of the disease.”

Patterson and IncellDx filed a patent in June 2020 for its CCL5/RANTES diagnostic test for COVID-19. In October, IncellDx reported that it was collaborating on a COVID-19 clinical trial using the CCR5 antagonist Maraviroc which is part of Patterson’s LC protocol.

Patterson’s first Covid paper in May 2020 found a “profound elevation of plasma IL-6 and CCL5 (RANTES)” in ten seriously ill Covid patients. It was followed in January 2021 by a paper showing that a Covid patient with a poor T-cell response was still shedding the virus 90 days after becoming infected. Next, Patterson and his team found that a CCL5 blocker, Leronlimab ,might be an appropriate medication to use in Covid.

Patterson’s two major papers, Immune-Based Prediction of COVID-19 Severity and Chronicity Decoded Using Machine Learning“, and “Persistence of SARS CoV-2 S1 Protein in CD16+ Monocytes in Post-Acute Sequelae of COVID-19 (PASC) Up to 15 Months Post-Infection were released summer 2021.

According to Patterson:

Long Covid is a vascular inflammation caused by the S1 protein in the white blood cells.

In more than 8000 patients treated so far, disruption of these mechanisms with CCR5 antagonists and statins has resulted in a profound improvement in more than 80%

A similar pathology may exist in the Covid vaccine injured and those with ME, Fibro, and Lyme.

Investigating Cytokines in Long Covid. The same Cytokine pattern has not shown up in ME but it is caused by many different viruses and other triggers so to be expected. IL 6 and IL 8 are more common in ME than LC. He believes ME can be treated with the same antiretroviral though i.e. Maraviroc. VEGF is high in Long Covid and is the marker for polyneuropathy. It is low in ME (!) (despite neuropathy in about 1/3….another cause?)

He used 14 biomarkers: found a Long Covid profile. There was a cytokine flip when patients 'flipped' from Covid into Long Covid.

Found signature for platelet activation in early stages which triggers the clots that are part of the pathogenesis of LC.

None of the 13 000 LC patients had micro clots nor the 1000 severe acute patients after using CCR5 antagonist as it reduces platelet activation and reduced vascular inflammation. Says that the same vascular inflammation is not present in ME.

The Covid vaccine-injured also have a Long Covid profile but have less IL 6, VEGF. Less severe than LC. When treated with CCR5 med. they respond in 2-4 weeks instead of 6-8 weeks for Long Covid because they have fewer severity markers (cytokines)

Used 50 ME patients from Kaplin and overlaid their cytokine pattern over those for LC and vaccine-triggered LC. They had even higher LC indices (cytokines) than LC. The ME patients responded well to Maravirov and statins. (!) Did not have the degree of vascular inflammation seen in LC.

ME patients have an immune profile like the Post Vaccine Long Covid but have high IL 6 and, to a lesser degree, IL 8. Post Vaccine LC also have less VEGF like ME, so don't have polyneuropathy???

How the blood vessels become inflamed in LC

There are 3 types of monocytes: classical, intermediary, and nonclassical. It is the nonclassical that takes the S protein to the blood vessels and is responsible for the damage. His second paper proposes that these monocytes responded to the initial infection by taking pieces of virus and displaying them on their surface which attracted an immune attack.



Why do Monocytes, which normally only survive for two days, in LC survive for much longer?

  • Patterson suggests that an inadequate immune response to the virus by T cells resulted in large numbers of monocytes being recruited to fight off the virus.
  • Monocytes usually only survive a couple of days but Patterson proposed that an interaction with fractalkine gave them very much longer lifespans and caused them to start creating proinflammatory cytokines.
  • They appear to emit high levels of CCL5/RANTES – a chemokine that directs them to the endothelial cells in the blood vessels where it is thought they create inflammation which results in dilation of the blood vessels
The LC symptoms, he believes, are caused by inflammation in different blood vessels across the body and brain. Since exercise mobilizes these monocytes, this process is exacerbated when people with long COVID exercise.

USE OF MARAVIROC

It is a CCR5 antagonist and antiretroviral medication and it appears to be effective against Covid. Maraviroc also stops monocytes from moving around the body in response to CCL5/RANTES – the chemokine produced in endothelial cells. Most LC patients are on for 2-4 weeks and it can be as long as two months. It particularly relieves tinnitus and brain fog and in only three to five days.

Statins – work in LC by inhibiting fractalkine thus preventing monocyte cells from attaching to endothelial cells on the blood vessels.

He has found both S1, S2 peptides in post-vaccination LC and a potential for mutant S1 peptides. He discusses the implication for this in a paper that is shortly to be published.

The increased level of VEGF in LC correlates with polyneuropathy and the sensation of head fullness which is notable in LC and it also causes vasodilation. The vasodilation results in the brain fog, tinnitus, and headache. Is caused by the monocytes binding to the endothelium. It is the same in Lyme Disease where the monocytes carry the infection.

Patterson thinks monocytic reservoirs of infection established early in people who later developed LC. Treatment with steroids in the acute stage might inadvertently have allowed those reservoirs in monocytes to be established

The role of Fractalkine in vascular inflammation.

Monocytes damage blood vessels and cause inflammation. Increases production of IFN gamma and Type 1 immune response. (This is from a 2013 publication.)

'This interferon-gamma and its TH1 collaborator interleukin 2 are the numerators of our LC index' So it is the reason why there is elevated INF gamma, interleukin 2 in the vascular endothelium. Important to block these with statins. Use this to judge the success of therapy.

These nonclassical monocytes are the only monocytes to carry the CX3CR1 receptor, which when it binds to fractalkine, turns on an anti-apoptotic protein that increases the longevity of monocytes. It also causes the monocytes to revert from their anti-inflammatory state, and to commence producing pro-inflammatory cytokines.

These are crucial steps as most monocytes die within a few days, and having very long-lived (up to at least 16 months) coronavirus protein-carrying monocytes is a critical aspect of Patterson’s hypothesis. He believes these attack the blood vessel walls.

CX3CR1 is also an important player in getting the monocytes to engage in vascular patrols, and deleting CX3CR1 has been shown to reduce their patrolling behaviour.

Monocytes carrying the SARS protein and endothelial cells are producing high levels of CCL5/RANTES – a chemokine that draws the monocytes cells to the endothelial cells. Patterson states that CCL5/RANTES was upregulated in 80% of Long Covid. Once at the endothelial cells, the monocytes bind to them with fractalkine.



Antiretroviral lowers LC index…it is a very, very potent approach to decreasing destructive cytokines such as TNF alpha.

VEGF causes blood vessel growth….and results in polyneuropathy. 85% of LC have high VEGF.

Important to target cytokines and not symptoms for treatment. They are the root cause.

In ME there is chronic viral infection and need anti-viral.

In Covid, there is a huge decrease in CD8 cells which results in the reactivation of all herpes viruses.

Patterson found that an LC patient was still infected with active Covid 90 days after the start of infection.

High IL 6 results in joint and muscle pain.

He has written a post-vaccine LC paper and one on post Lyme which will soon be published.
 

SWAlexander

Senior Member
Messages
2,082
I think it's more like €1,500 plus some fees per treatment now, but honestly, to me, an American, that sounds very low! My doctor bills my insurance company a few hundred dollars for a 15-minute appointment that involves no single-use equipment at all. These HELP apheresis sessions take a few hours and involve a lot of single-use equipment and medications. Plus there is all of the research and development (reading papers, collaborating with other doctors, trying things that don't work) that goes into it. I spoke to a doctor here in the US and they said that even with insurance, if you have a deductible, it might be cheaper to fly to Germany or Cyprus and pay out of pocket than to get this treatment here in America when it arrives.

You are right.
to bensmith
I suggest to call a few US clinics such as https://health.ucsd.edu/specialties/apheresis/Pages/default.aspx
You will find $4500 is about what you pay in the US and not even with a Heparin filter/system/equipment in place.
besides; Dr. Jaeger finances research and pays for all the equipment. On another note, German doctors make much less money then in the US.
I get a full panel blood test in Germany for free. My copay for a blood Catecholamine test in the US was 190 $.
The average PCP in the US gets about $68 per visit without any treatment. German PCP gets 24-28 Euro.
 
Messages
55
I have been listening to Dr Bruce Patterson and his hypothesis on what causes Long Covid. He claims to be able to prevent the formation of the mico clots in patients early in the illness with a particular protocol and claims that he has a 80% success rate in treating Long Covid.

In this video he also makes a number of references to ME as he has used 50 ME patients in his research. He doesn't appear to be of the opinion that micro clots will be a major feature of ME as he claims there isn't much vascular inflammation. I am puzzled by his use of statins in ME as, in my experience, they cause a major relapse.

I have made notes as I listened and will paste them below if anyone is interested in the outline of the talk.

Dr Bruce Patterson on Long Covid and ME

Bruce Patterson is both a former Stanford researcher and Medical Director of Diagnostic Virology at Stanford University Hospitals and Clinics, He has co-authored around 90 papers – most prior to 2011 – at about the time he left the University and created the IncellDx diagnostic laboratory.

Over the past two years Patterson has concentrated on publishing and has co-authored seven papers on COVID-19 with more publications due.

In June of 2020, Patterson reported that he’d identified the cause of the so-called cytokine storm in COVID-19.

Quote, “When we were developing a cytokine quantification assay for possible COVID trials in China, we discovered that infected patients had consistently high levels of CCL5/RANTES in plasma which in some cases was 100 times normal depending on the severity of the disease.”

Patterson and IncellDx filed a patent in June 2020 for its CCL5/RANTES diagnostic test for COVID-19. In October, IncellDx reported that it was collaborating on a COVID-19 clinical trial using the CCR5 antagonist Maraviroc which is part of Patterson’s LC protocol.

Patterson’s first Covid paper in May 2020 found a “profound elevation of plasma IL-6 and CCL5 (RANTES)” in ten seriously ill Covid patients. It was followed in January 2021 by a paper showing that a Covid patient with a poor T-cell response was still shedding the virus 90 days after becoming infected. Next, Patterson and his team found that a CCL5 blocker, Leronlimab ,might be an appropriate medication to use in Covid.

Patterson’s two major papers, Immune-Based Prediction of COVID-19 Severity and Chronicity Decoded Using Machine Learning“, and “Persistence of SARS CoV-2 S1 Protein in CD16+ Monocytes in Post-Acute Sequelae of COVID-19 (PASC) Up to 15 Months Post-Infection were released summer 2021.

According to Patterson:

Long Covid is a vascular inflammation caused by the S1 protein in the white blood cells.

In more than 8000 patients treated so far, disruption of these mechanisms with CCR5 antagonists and statins has resulted in a profound improvement in more than 80%

A similar pathology may exist in the Covid vaccine injured and those with ME, Fibro, and Lyme.

Investigating Cytokines in Long Covid. The same Cytokine pattern has not shown up in ME but it is caused by many different viruses and other triggers so to be expected. IL 6 and IL 8 are more common in ME than LC. He believes ME can be treated with the same antiretroviral though i.e. Maraviroc. VEGF is high in Long Covid and is the marker for polyneuropathy. It is low in ME (!) (despite neuropathy in about 1/3….another cause?)

He used 14 biomarkers: found a Long Covid profile. There was a cytokine flip when patients 'flipped' from Covid into Long Covid.

Found signature for platelet activation in early stages which triggers the clots that are part of the pathogenesis of LC.

None of the 13 000 LC patients had micro clots nor the 1000 severe acute patients after using CCR5 antagonist as it reduces platelet activation and reduced vascular inflammation. Says that the same vascular inflammation is not present in ME.

The Covid vaccine-injured also have a Long Covid profile but have less IL 6, VEGF. Less severe than LC. When treated with CCR5 med. they respond in 2-4 weeks instead of 6-8 weeks for Long Covid because they have fewer severity markers (cytokines)

Used 50 ME patients from Kaplin and overlaid their cytokine pattern over those for LC and vaccine-triggered LC. They had even higher LC indices (cytokines) than LC. The ME patients responded well to Maravirov and statins. (!) Did not have the degree of vascular inflammation seen in LC.

ME patients have an immune profile like the Post Vaccine Long Covid but have high IL 6 and, to a lesser degree, IL 8. Post Vaccine LC also have less VEGF like ME, so don't have polyneuropathy???

How the blood vessels become inflamed in LC

There are 3 types of monocytes: classical, intermediary, and nonclassical. It is the nonclassical that takes the S protein to the blood vessels and is responsible for the damage. His second paper proposes that these monocytes responded to the initial infection by taking pieces of virus and displaying them on their surface which attracted an immune attack.



Why do Monocytes, which normally only survive for two days, in LC survive for much longer?

  • Patterson suggests that an inadequate immune response to the virus by T cells resulted in large numbers of monocytes being recruited to fight off the virus.
  • Monocytes usually only survive a couple of days but Patterson proposed that an interaction with fractalkine gave them very much longer lifespans and caused them to start creating proinflammatory cytokines.
  • They appear to emit high levels of CCL5/RANTES – a chemokine that directs them to the endothelial cells in the blood vessels where it is thought they create inflammation which results in dilation of the blood vessels
The LC symptoms, he believes, are caused by inflammation in different blood vessels across the body and brain. Since exercise mobilizes these monocytes, this process is exacerbated when people with long COVID exercise.

USE OF MARAVIROC

It is a CCR5 antagonist and antiretroviral medication and it appears to be effective against Covid. Maraviroc also stops monocytes from moving around the body in response to CCL5/RANTES – the chemokine produced in endothelial cells. Most LC patients are on for 2-4 weeks and it can be as long as two months. It particularly relieves tinnitus and brain fog and in only three to five days.

Statins – work in LC by inhibiting fractalkine thus preventing monocyte cells from attaching to endothelial cells on the blood vessels.

He has found both S1, S2 peptides in post-vaccination LC and a potential for mutant S1 peptides. He discusses the implication for this in a paper that is shortly to be published.

The increased level of VEGF in LC correlates with polyneuropathy and the sensation of head fullness which is notable in LC and it also causes vasodilation. The vasodilation results in the brain fog, tinnitus, and headache. Is caused by the monocytes binding to the endothelium. It is the same in Lyme Disease where the monocytes carry the infection.

Patterson thinks monocytic reservoirs of infection established early in people who later developed LC. Treatment with steroids in the acute stage might inadvertently have allowed those reservoirs in monocytes to be established

The role of Fractalkine in vascular inflammation.

Monocytes damage blood vessels and cause inflammation. Increases production of IFN gamma and Type 1 immune response. (This is from a 2013 publication.)

'This interferon-gamma and its TH1 collaborator interleukin 2 are the numerators of our LC index' So it is the reason why there is elevated INF gamma, interleukin 2 in the vascular endothelium. Important to block these with statins. Use this to judge the success of therapy.

These nonclassical monocytes are the only monocytes to carry the CX3CR1 receptor, which when it binds to fractalkine, turns on an anti-apoptotic protein that increases the longevity of monocytes. It also causes the monocytes to revert from their anti-inflammatory state, and to commence producing pro-inflammatory cytokines.

These are crucial steps as most monocytes die within a few days, and having very long-lived (up to at least 16 months) coronavirus protein-carrying monocytes is a critical aspect of Patterson’s hypothesis. He believes these attack the blood vessel walls.

CX3CR1 is also an important player in getting the monocytes to engage in vascular patrols, and deleting CX3CR1 has been shown to reduce their patrolling behaviour.

Monocytes carrying the SARS protein and endothelial cells are producing high levels of CCL5/RANTES – a chemokine that draws the monocytes cells to the endothelial cells. Patterson states that CCL5/RANTES was upregulated in 80% of Long Covid. Once at the endothelial cells, the monocytes bind to them with fractalkine.



Antiretroviral lowers LC index…it is a very, very potent approach to decreasing destructive cytokines such as TNF alpha.

VEGF causes blood vessel growth….and results in polyneuropathy. 85% of LC have high VEGF.

Important to target cytokines and not symptoms for treatment. They are the root cause.

In ME there is chronic viral infection and need anti-viral.

In Covid, there is a huge decrease in CD8 cells which results in the reactivation of all herpes viruses.

Patterson found that an LC patient was still infected with active Covid 90 days after the start of infection.

High IL 6 results in joint and muscle pain.

He has written a post-vaccine LC paper and one on post Lyme which will soon be published.
Hmmmm - “none of the 13,000 LC patients had microclots” Didn’t Dr Resia Pretorius have a specific way she identified microclots - that hardly anyone knows how to do at this point, not the least Bruce Patterson? I wonder how his method differed from hers.
 

SWAlexander

Senior Member
Messages
2,082
Hmmmm - “none of the 13,000 LC patients had microclots” Didn’t Dr Resia Pretorius have a specific way she identified microclots - that hardly anyone knows how to do at this point, not the least Bruce Patterson? I wonder how his method differed from hers.

Yes she has. You can hear saying it how, toward the end of the video in #666 I posted.
 
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