Incredible improvements with Helminthic Therapy

[Gyre]

At first I found this alarming and I was quite incredulous, but the more I read about it the more I want to try it. It is particularly interesting for me because of how it relates to T-cells. I have tried NAC in the past which agonises T-cells (i.e. stimulates them) and that made me very, very severely sick. I then tried LDN, which is theorised to work by increasing the number of regulatory T-cells, and that made me a lot better!

Your mini-journey is one most therapeutic helminth hosts have gone through. Also, quite a few hosts use LDN on top of their new friends.

@Gyre

Were you particularly susceptible to infection when you were ill, or were you in the camp that very rarely or never get infections?

Before I had the full-fledged health breakdown, I was susceptible to all sorts of infections, UTI, lung, throat, etc. I don't know how many rounds of antibiotics I've had in my life, but it has to be 30+. Then when the CFS/ME thing hit me hard, that all stopped. I was sick all the time with CFS/ME and often felt like I had the flu, but I can't honestly remember having antibiotics since the huge health crisis eight years ago.

 

[Cheesus]

Before I had the full-fledged health breakdown, I was susceptible to all sorts of infections, UTI, lung, throat, etc. I don't know how many rounds of antibiotics I've had in my life, but it has to be 30+. Then when the CFS/ME thing hit me hard, that all stopped. I was sick all the time with CFS/ME and often felt like I had the flu, but I can't honestly remember having antibiotics since the huge health crisis eight years ago.

Yup, that is essentially my experience too.

This is something common to a subgroup of patients. I have a friend with ME who is constantly getting infections (I call her Snotball), but there is also a group who will just not get sick from anything. I suspect these will ultimately define two of the primary subgroups of the condition. Moreover, I have often wondered if overactive T-cells are to blame for the group that never gets ill, which would explain why you found helminths to be so effective.

Obviously that is wild speculation, and probably is not actually what is happening.

I've gone from thinking this is an absurd idea to being ready to get on with it and buy some helminths in the space of around two hours. Luckily I have to sleep now, so I can't make any rash purchases.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

 

[Gyre]

I've gone from thinking this is an absurd idea to being ready to get on with it and buy some helminths in the space of around two hours. Luckily I have to sleep now, so I can't make any rash purchases.

Definitely sleep on it. Read up on it. Educate yourself on the pros, cons, processes and pitfalls. I especially recommend An Epidemic of Absence: A New Way of Understanding Allergies and Autoimmune Diseases by Moises Velasquez-Manoff which is available on Kindle as well as in print for anyone who wants to get a basic education on the matter. Note that Moises is no cheerleader, he tried helminth therapy for an autoimmune condition without any success, but he presents the science in a very readable format.

 

[Cheesus]

I will definitely check out that book.

 

[Gyre]

This is something common to a subgroup of patients. I have a friend with ME who is constantly getting infections (I call her Snotball), but there is also a group who will just not get sick from anything. I suspect these will ultimately define two of the primary subgroups of the condition. Moreover, I have often wondered if overactive T-cells are to blame for the group that never gets ill, which would explain why you found helminths to be so effective.

Could absolutely be. Certainly the ME community is not monolithic. I wouldn't be surprised to see several subgroups defined in the coming years. It may be that only the "never gets sick" group are the only ones who will benefit from helminthic therapy. More data would be helpful on all fronts.

 

[Hip]

you can get a colony going with as few as 5 NA if you are lucky (I did and I know of several others who have as well) and DIY from there if you can buy or borrow appropriate gear.

Would you happen to have a link to any instructions for cultivating your own Necator americanus hookworms? I have a microscope capable of 800X magnification, so I guess I already have part of the necessary equipment.

If anyone want to buy a good but inexpensive microscope, Brunel Microscopes in the UK sell biological microscopes starting at £71.

 

[Gyre]

Would you happen to have a link to any instructions for cultivating your own Necator americanus hookworms? I have a microscope capable of 800X magnification, so I guess I already have part of the necessary equipment.

If anyone want to buy a good but inexpensive microscope, Brunel Microscopes in the UK sell biological microscopes starting at £71.

Sounds like you are set microscope-wise. I generally use mine on 40X for easy searching, so huge magnification not required. For anyone who doesn't have a microscope, I highly recommend a scope with a mechanical stage to make your life easier. This is the one I use plus a box of slides.

All the other materials are simple to obtain, the only thing not listed in the supplies in the methodology is a heating pad to keep things around 30C. I use a cat heating pad which stays around the right temp. Other people use a reptile heating pad, seedling mat or cheap chicken egg incubators. Heating not necessary if you've got temps that stay above 21C, but it does speed things up.

General incubation info here. I've tried a couple methods and this one works best for me and at least one other person I know, neither of us with advanced lab skills. All additional supplies required are listed in the methodology. It is basically mix, wait for 10 days or so, then count via microscope using necessary safety precautions (gloves, drapes for surfaces, alcohol wipedown, freeze as appropriate). NA mature to egg laying between 6-8 weeks post inoculation.

 

[antherder]

I asked a doctor years ago if he could prescribe me some hookworms. He gave me one of those sideways glances and laughed, nervously. Hate to think what he wrote on my medical file.

I gave up pursuing the idea but may have to reinvestigate. The Bitcoin thing sounds a bit... complicated though. But these could be the worms I've been waiting for! Thanks @Gyre for posting your experience. Very glad to hear you have found something that works for you.

Unfortunately, I now have worms on the brain, or awful puns involving worms, at least. (Not blaming anyone for this, other than myself.)

In fact, I feel a book title coming on;

The Nematode and the Helminth

One sleeps, while the other creeps...or one snoozes while the other cruises...or one snores while the other GNAWS!...or one naps, while the other cr...

Thanks again for sharing. Wriggling out of this thread now....this nematode needs a nap...cos she feels like...cr...

 

[Gyre]

I gave up pursuing the idea but may have to reinvestigate. The Bitcoin thing sounds a bit... complicated though.

@Cheesus has graciously volunteered to help anyone who needs assistance in dealing with Bitcoin in an earlier post on this thread.

 

[Hip]

If anyone wants some simple brief instructions on how to set up a bitcoin wallet and pay by bitcoin, see the instructions here:

Spoiler: Bitcoin Setup Instructions

Bitcoin Setup Instructions

Before you can get yourself some bitcoins, you first need to set up bitcoin wallet, which is a small software application that runs on your computer that holds the bitcoins you buy.

I found the Electrum bitcoin wallet nice and simple (good for people with brain fog). This page explains how to set up Electrum. It takes a few hours to set up Electrum and then buy some bitcoins to put in your Electrum bitcoin wallet.

You buy bitcoins from a bitcoin exchange website such as these ones in the UK, or these ones in the US.

It works like this: let's say you are using your credit card on a bitcoin exchange website to buy some bitcoins; you enter your credit card details, enter the amount you want to exchange into bitcoins (eg, $100), and enter your bitcoin receiving address.

Your bitcoin receiving address will look something like this: 19zFWcSUzsdeAzSNhTL3UY9qz1Ng5JBLzG. You can find your bitcoin receiving address in the "Receive" tab of Electrum.

(Note that each time you buy some bitcoins to put into your bitcoin wallet, you should use a new receiving address. Electrum creates a fresh receiving address for you when you click the "New" button in the "Receive" tab.)

Then on the exchange website, your dollars get converted into bitcoins (at the current exchange rate), and placed into your bitcoin wallet. Note that it may take about a couple of hours before the bitcoins reach your wallet. You can see the latest and historical bitcoin prices here.

When the money arrives in your bitcoin wallet, is it displayed on the bottom bar of the Electrum window; it will say something like: Balance: 0.25134 BTC. BTC means bitcoins.


Once you have set up you bitcoin wallet and have some bitcoins in it, paying for goods by bitcoin is even easier than entering your credit card details. When you purchase goods online and go through the normal website checkout process, the website you buy the goods from will display a message (or send you an email) saying something like:

Please send 0.1852 bitcoin to our bitcoin address: 1DfemcZNLYHtra5rB9bqbj8zdgjRevv1Tx

You then just copy and paste that bitcoin address into the "Pay to" field in the "Send" tab of your Electrum bitcoin wallet, enter the amount to pay (0.1852 in this example), and press the "Send" button. That's it. That's how you pay by bitcoin.

 

[Cheesus]

The Nematode and the Helminth

One of the things I was surprised to see when I looked into this yesterday was nematodes are actually a type of helminth!

The guide @Hip gave is pretty good. If you get stuck then let me know.

 

[antherder]

One of the things I was surprised to see when I looked into this yesterday was nematodes are actually a type of helminth!

The guide @Hip gave is pretty good. If you get stuck then let me know.

Spooky... and annoying...will have to change the book title now, but The Nematode is a Helminth just doesn't have the same ring to it...

Thanks for the offer. And to @Hip for the info. It appears that I may need to get a computer first though to set up a wallet. Only have a phone for internet. And no storage left for apps, if there was one. Darn. Don't think I will be herding any worms anytime soon! I will also need to look into whether the Helminths will be compatible with another health problem first anyway.

 

[Cheesus]

Spooky... and annoying...will have to change the book title now, but The Nematode is a Helminth just doesn't have the same ring to it...

Thanks for the offer. And to @Hip for the info. It appears that I may need to get a computer first though to set up a wallet. Only have a phone for internet. And no storage left for apps, if there was one. Darn. Don't think I will be herding any worms anytime soon! I will also need to look into whether the Helminths will be compatible with another health problem first anyway.

"Dr Naviaux, I read in your paper that ME is like a dauer state in nematodes, so I ate some nematodes. Am I doing this right?"

Okay no problem. There are apps that you can use, so there is no need to go out and buy a computer.

 

[MEPatient345]

Hi @Gyre. Thanks for sharing all this.. it's very interesting and your website is well done, and easy to explore. Have been reading it and the links you provided for 2 hours!
Just a question about your ME symptoms.. you mention fatigue a lot, but not PEM specifically unless I missed it. Did you also have post exertional malaise, after cognitive or physical activity?
Edit: just saw your comment about crashing in afternoon which I think answers my question.

I searched the FB group for ME successes, and found one definitely improved, one who seemed to be improving and 2 who gave up without improvement.

I am in the never gets sick category, and my onset could have been viral, bacterial or too much physical stress.. I'm not sure, so I wonder if my ME is of the autoimmune variety, and HT therefore could be an option.

 

[Cheesus]

@Gyre

Did you have anthelminthics on standby incase you needed to bail out?

From what I have read, Necator Americanus is most susceptible to albendazole, which solves the vast majority of cases in adults with only a single dose. However it is a prescription medication in the UK, and I am dreading telling my doctor that I have purposefully infected myself with hookworm.

Mebendalzole is an OTC medication here, but the studies I have read suggest it it much less effective in eradicating NA.

 

[sb4]

Does anyone know if colloidal silver would affect the worm?

 

[zippy890]

In terms of illness profile, I too started out as one who got sick with common colds and flus all the time. They would last for weeks and impact me deeply. Then as the years of CFS wore on, I did not get sick anymore. People in my house could all be sick with the flu, and I would never catch it. This went on for 15+ years. Then I began hosting rat tapeworms. About three months after I had reached a therapeutic dose, a family member came down with a fever and flu. I thought nothing of it. Then four days later, BAM ! I woke up and my throat was a little scratchy. I checked my temperature. It was normal. But within 10 hours, my fever skyrocketed to 103F and stayed there for days. I quickly employed my best flu remedy of a water only fast. I confidently predicted a return to normal in four days. Wrong ! It took me 7 days of water only fasting to completely lick that fever. The non-CFS family member followed the same course. Other people in the community were also very sick at the same time, and I assume since they did not fast, their illness dragged on for weeks, with multiple doctor visits, antibiotics, and even some hospitalizations.

Bottom line: Once I had worms on board, I went from a never sick CFS person, to a person who's immune system exhibited a normal response to a very nasty flu. A number of other wormies have noted the same effect. It is not uncommon to hear, "I was sick all the time, but I never got sick... until I got worms. Then I had the worst flu I've ever had in my life !"

In my experience, worms have a very profound influence on the immune system.

 

[zippy890]

I harvested some hookworms just a little while ago, and applied them to a family member. The materials necessary are not extensive, but the better equipment you have, the easier the process will be. Like Gyre, I use the 40X setting on my microscope to search with. That is all that is really necessary. Occasionally, I'll switch to 100X to zoom in and admire my pets. They were particularly frisky today, and I enjoyed watching them wiggle. Quite an amazing natural process.

I strongly recommend a mechanical stage on the microscope, and cool LED lighting. Conical glass centrifuge tubes, with accompanying stoppers, and a test tube rack, have been a God send for me.

 

[Billt]

This all sound fascinating. Thank you all for sharing

 

[Cheesus]

Does anyone know if colloidal silver would affect the worm?

You ought to be careful with colloidal silver. It can permanently and dramatically change the colour of your skin. There is also no good evidence that it is effective in doing anything positive.