Increasing GABA naturally

paul80

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If you cannot buy via KWK, the following also ship to the UK, and are considered high quality:

cactuskava.com
bulakavahouse.com

Here is a list of kava vendors who ship to the UK.
Ok i'll have a look at those, thanks.

I just got an email back from KWK.
" Hi Paul,
Thanks for your message and interest. Due to your country’s ban on kava, paypal restricts us from using them as a payment method. Many customers have started using a couple shipping services, www.stackry.com or www.forward2me.com. You set up an account with them to be used as a shipping address rather than your own, and they will then ship to you. It works out quite nice and you are able to receive your kava! I apologize for the inconvenience and hope this helps! "

So if you get it shipped to these places first, payment will be accepted.

I've not checked how much those shipping services cost yet, i'll check it later.
 
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I have been taking Ativan about twice a week for a few months. Usually at the dosage of 1 mg. It’s not something that seems to have given me tolerance much yet but I want to cut back. I will be looking at kava to upregulate gaba a receptors But also at other things that downregulate glutamate.
@debored13
I don;t think that you'd build up much, if any, tolerance given the way you're taking it, which gives the metabolites plenty of time to clear your system before you add in more. Probably the only relatively safe way to take it.
 
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Vagus nerve stimulation seems to increase GABA in the brain. Here's a study that compared GABAa receptor density in people with epilepsy before and 1 year after the implantation of a VNS (vagus nerve stimulation) device. The VNS group had an increase of 42,5 % in GABAa receptor density and the control group had an increase of 7,6 %. This might only apply on people with epilepsy , but there are studies indicating a GABA enhancing effect in healthy individuals also (like this study; "SICI, a double-pulse TMS paradigm informative of GABA-A activity, was significantly increased in right motor cortex after real tVNS."). I've read that the anti-epileptic effects of VNS takes some time to manifest, so that might also apply to the GABA increasing effect. "Unlike drugs, where efficacy may decline with time, efficacy with VNS continues to improve over a period of 18 months to 2 years." (source)

"Regular" VNS is achieved using a neurostimulator that's surgically-implanted in the chest. An alternative, noninvasive form of VNS is called Transcutaneous Vagus Nerve Stimulation (tVNS), alternatively Transcutaneous Auricular Vagus Nerve Stimulation (taVNS). This can be achieved using a TENS/EMS machine and an ear electrode. VNS have also been shown to lower inflammation, for example in this pilot study with rheumatoid arthritis. I have myself just started experimenting with taVNS using a Beurer EM 49 and an earclip stimulating the tragus.


There is a couple of parameters that is relevant when it comes to VNS; current intensity, frequency (Hz), pulse width (μs), duty cycle (On/Off time) and session duration. NEMOS, which is a tVNS-device used for epilepsy, uses 25 Hz, 250 μs pulse width, 30s ON, 30 OFF duty cycle in 1 hour sessions, 4 sessions per day. This is a lot different from the parameters used in the rheumatoid arthritis study, where they used 10 Hz, 250 μs pulse width, 60 seconds per session, 4 sessions per day. 4 minutes instead of 4 hours! The field is still in its infancy, so parameters varies greatly and what's optimal is not known. According to this study lower frequencies (≤10 Hz) are better suited for anti-inflammatory purposes, and higher frequencies (20-30 Hz) are better suited for epilepsy and depression.

VNS has been approved in humans by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), a U.S. government agency, as a therapy for treatment-resistant epilepsy or depression (Milby et al., 2008) through high-frequency stimulation (20–30 Hz) of vagal afferents (Milby et al., 2008) while the use of low-frequency stimulation (1–10 Hz) (Berniket al., 2002b;Borovikovaet al., 2000;de Jonge etal., 2005) in animal models is thought to activate vagal efferents i.e. the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway through alpha7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (de Jonge and Ulloa, 2007).
When it comes to current intensity it seems like what's the most common is to adjust the intensity to a bit above the perceptual threshold. Perceptual threshold means the lowest current that's noticeable. According to this paper 200 % of the perceptual threshold is appropriate.

Parameters used with epilepsy might be better for increasing GABA in the brain. I don't know if lower frequencies (≤10 Hz) increases GABA in the brain. Also as a side-note; because VNS stimulates the "cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway", it might be prudent to combine this with an adequate choline intake, using choline bitartrate for example. But that's just pure speculation on my part.

Tagging @Hip , thought you might find this interesting.
 
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Anyone know how quickly things can backfire with taurine? I'm wasting magnesium and potassium and it is supposed to help with getting them into cells and keeping them there but I am very wary of dysregulating anything further.
 

vision blue

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I am also wasting taruine in urine, with its expected effects of making it impossible to hang on to mag. and potasium. . In your case, did you get evidence of taurine wasting, or was it a guess based on low mag and potassim levels?

I supplement with taurine sub mucousally becasue can't tolerate it orally.

I recently retested and was stunned that its actually working.

What i do is take it only twice per week; i started with 3 times per week. I had done that becasue i did read it can accumulate. Plus, i had read in studies on rats anyway, that in female rats, daily small dose ended up increasing blood pressure but pulsing it in larger doses decreased bp (I have hig bp as well). Am hoping that my twice per week prevents "backfiring" but I don't know.

In terms of GABA, i had hoped taruine would help there too, but based on nu8mbers, it did not. I

Most effects have been positive. i did find on tresting my urine ammonia was higher than last time (and proportiate rise in uric acid) and am wondering if the added protein burden is kicking up ammonia. My guess is this won't be an issue for most people.

I will have to keep testing to see its effects. I presume also if it "

ah shoot got to go. don't know when can come back
 
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I don't know if I am wasting taurine or not but I am requiring far more magnesium than anyone's body could possibly use and a smaller but significant amount of potassium. I think it may actually be working based on symptoms but I have to figure out for a few more days, then how often it is good to take it.
 
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A lot, depending on how recently I've had any exposure to vitamin d. I'd rather not specify the actual amount because I don't want to be seen as condoning anyone taking more than necessary. I only take large amounts because they are needed for symptom relief. I take it in transdermally in baths and foot soaks. If someone is skimming through the threads I don't want them to think "oh, people are taking this much, it must be ok" and then take a high dose themselves without needing to. :)

What I think happened just last night since taking the taurine in a quite small dose of 150mg x2, is that the large amount of magnesium that was just enough each night in the last week was finally too much and kept me awake. So hopefully I can ramp down to lower amounts, but it is too soon to say. I've only starting needing huge amounts in the last few months and I am hoping very much to break out of it somehow.
 
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I'd rather not specify the actual amount because I don't want to be seen as condoning anyone taking more than necessary. I only take large amounts because they are needed for symptom relief.
I don’t think you’re condoning anything. Every one of us are unique, especially in our “treatment plan”. I have severe sensory overload to the point where if I don’t use marijuana daily (reduction in calcium signalling), my brain can’t tolerate any sound or light.

I’ve heard magnesium as being a potent NMDA antagonist, and I’ve never felt any of its effects. I take transdermal magnesium daily, which is homemade with Epsom salts. I think I’m taking around 2,000mg daily, and still no effect.

Before getting ill, I was performing in heavy exercise 5 days a week as well as drinking plenty of coffee. No doubt my magnesium was depleted. Also, I’d much prefer to use a foot bath for my magnesium intake rather than the messy spray I make. Any help would be appreciated :)
 
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I guess it's the difference between taking it to try to improve your condition and having unbearable symptoms without it. I am sick every night and don't sleep unless I have it, which gives me generally 6-7 hours of sleep. Otherwise I probably wouldn't go much over the recommended daily doses.

Here's what I have found so far: foot baths allow me to take in more than swallowing supplements, and avoid the stomach pain. Full body baths for over an hour improve the uptake to where I don't have to use more magnesium in the night to get back to sleep, but that takes a big chunk out of your day if you don't have to do it.
As for foot baths, I think to get the most out of it, soak for 1.5-2 hours. After that point it doesn't seem to provide much extra benefit. You'd probably want to use a cup or two of epsom salts. It's hard to tell how much we absorb transdermally. It can be more pleasant though than using the transdermal spray. Especially if you are taking marijuana medicinally a warm salt bath might make a nice relaxing combination. I find my need for magnesium skyrockets at night and is almost nothing during the day. Don't know if that would be the same for you. The salts only dissolve in warm or hot water, fyi. I don't run the bath very deep, since it would dilute the salt too much. Just a few inches deep so I can get as much surface skin area under water as possible. I lie down in it too, though I have no idea if absorbing it into the upper body has a greater effect than absorbing into the legs. It seems like it might, if we are trying to get it into the central nervous system, but I don't really know.
 

vision blue

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If the foot soaks and the like are using epsom salts (magnesium sulfate), you may be having a reaction to the sulfate- e.g. the not sleeping at night. I reacted badly to that and can only tolerate magnesium chloride. I do that transdmally and the taurine as i mentioned sublingually and submucousally. has helped both in symptoms and it raised my serum mag levels up from bottom onf normal range and my potassium up from below the cutoff to normal. if anyone has amino acid urine results and wants to compare, please let me know. on this sparoidcally and unpredictably tho.

also when you say you used high doses of the mag transdermally but no effect, there's contraversy as to whether it gets absorbed though the skin. it depends on which kind you are using as well as other factors (temperature for example). So another reason it may not be doing anything is not taurine deficiency but wrong form of mag for you. If youre not taurine deficient, it may be a mistake to take it- for some it's calming, but for others it revs them up, so that too may be why you couldn't sleep. Plus some of the taurine will be broken down into cysteine - if you already had enough of cysteine, that too could be a problem. For me , i needed more cysteine too but could not tolerate NAC nor reduced glutathione so it worked out well for me- its a first. most things worki out miserably but my taurein and magnesium has thus far bee helping. Also satisying becasue i have both numbers and symptoms, pre and post, that demonstrate it works. But as another poster said, we are all so damn different. So One person cure is another's poison.
 

vision blue

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@Cipher
Thanks for posting the link. i just followed it and then the second link and read the article. It may downregulate the receptor, but nonetheless the long term taruine was protective of the brain, not harmful. So the paper showed how a glutamate agonist and other chemcials that normally casue seizures and is fatal at the doess they used instead had much less harmful effects in the taruine treated animals.
 

vision blue

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@L'engle Just be aware that youre getting big doses of sulfate too if youre using epson salts. May be fine for you, but for others that have bad reactions, it may not be the magnesium given those bad reactions, it may be the sulfate.
 
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I have the same reaction to all kinds of magnesium, it scales with how much magnesium I need at the time, not how much sulfate I take in. And I definitely need magnesium to sleep. I've been observing it for years and my sleep correlates almost entirely with electrolytes. And through the night I tested magnesium and became more awake as it kicked in. Magnesium is definitely what I need, just my system needs very specific amounts of it. I'm hoping actually the taurine will help with the narrow tolerance range and allow me to just take enough magnesium without having to worry about going over. The taurine did make me a bit more calm actually but not enough to counteract the magnesium. Most nights I get it mostly right and the magnesium does put me to sleep.

The transdermal mag just isn't enough to have any effect for me, even with coating the skin completely. The sheer amount needed cannot be applied this way for me.

Glad it is working for you. Testing is all well and good but I have to go on symptoms and what enables me to survive on a daily basis. :)
 
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As for foot baths, I think to get the most out of it, soak for 1.5-2 hours. After that point it doesn't seem to provide much extra benefit. You'd probably want to use a cup or two of epsom salts.
Do you ever repeat the foot baths multiple times a day? I put 2 cups (or there about) in a spray bottle and use that daily. So I will be getting much more, which is good for me as I think my severe exercise has depleted so many minerals and so forth that I don’t even know where to bloody start in terms of getting tested.

Thanks for your detailed info :)
 
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I have repeated the foot baths as many times a day as I needed them. If I started to get leg cramps and feel unwell I generally needed more, then had to estimate how much was needed for the night, and then in the night have to soak my feet again another amount. The good thing about the full baths is it seems to allow me to get through the night without soaking them again, so I mostly just do that right now and soak my feet if I didn't get enough magnesium in the full bath.

Yeah, the testing is complicated. At least with magnesium there is a really high chance you need it and it's harder to end up having too much of so it's a good thing to start with. Most people here seem to do better with magnesium.
 
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The taurine is definitely helping me now. I reduced the amount of magnesium I took yesterday and still took the 125mg taurine before the salt bath and before bed. I got more energy from the magnesium, as I have done the other two days I took the taurine, and also slept better than I have in a long while, with the correctly adjusted magnesium. I think I actually got 8 hours, including a nap in the late morning to make up the missing hour after a 7 hour night.

I don't know if the huge reduction in magnesium need was due to the taurine, or was a natural drop that occurs when I am careful about not getting sunlight (my trigger for needing more magnesium) over the last week. If the pattern keeps up I will be able to say more definitively. I do feel the magnesium absorbing more and giving me more benefit with the taurine.

I will take it again today which should take me to the end of a 1000mg capsule. After that I will probably try cycling it with NAG, to prevent a tolerance from building. I like the effects I'm getting now and don't want to risk losing them or having to take more to keep them up. NAG apparently doesn't build up tolerance as it works on NMDA receptors instead of GABA. I don't know if it has the same beneficial effect on electrolytes as taurine though.
 

pamojja

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Along with comprehensive supplementation originally started because of a PAD, I've been taken about 3 g per day of taurine for the last 10 years and haven't experienced anything like tolerance. But then I also didn't take it for any immatiate effects, but its long-term CVD benefits and as general booster for someone eating mainly plants.

Without reading the whole thread, what could be considered as down-regulating symptoms from persisting taurine ingestion?