I’m in big trouble with accidental Overmethylation. In desperate need of a meeting of the minds.

[STL_girl]

WARNING! LONG POST!

Hello all! I have been reading through the posts and I must say, there are some brilliant minds here. More brilliant than any doctor I have come acrossed YET on my healing journey. I have a unique situation that desperately needs help. Where to begin?....

6 months ago I was poisoned from the antibiotic called metronizadole. It pulled all of the B1(Thiamine) out of my cells and causes a condition called Wernickes Encephalopathy. This happens to a very small number of people on this drug and is still being investigated scientifically. I had terrible symptoms. I was so sick. My legs and arms wouldn’t move, I have peripheral nuerapthy that felt like I was being electrocuted all throughout my entire body, POTS, terrible brain symptoms where it felt as though something was attacking my brain and crawling around in there, temperature disregulation, problems breathing, amongst other numerous symptoms. Basically all nervous system related in one way or another.

I began to see a doctor who put me on B vitamins. I have to copies of MTHFR C677t so she put me on a B vitamin containing methyl B12 and methyl folic acid. In addition I was on an extre methyl folate, this brought my totals to around 2000 a day. I also would take Alpha Lipoic Acid. I was having GREAT success on these vitamins for months. I was getting better and healing!

I then added in a small dose of B1( Thiamine HCL). I started at 100 mg and gradually increased each week. I was seeing so much improvement on this combination and almost feeling completely well again. Symptoms were decreasing substantially. When I got to 500 mg of Thiamine HCL I switched to a more potent form of Thiamine that is fat soluble, called allithiamine. I stated at 50 milligrams and was doing better than ever!

The next week I went up to 100 mg and that’s when ALL HELL BROKE LOSE!!!! I started having extreme anxiety that started in my stomach and went to my head. I thought I could be paradoxical so I kept taking it until it became too much. I was in a pure state of panic. Fight or Flight mode fore weeks. I had to stop taking all of the other B vitamins as I could no longer tolerate any of them or the Alpha Lipoid Acid. And when I would take them, they sent me into a state of fight or flight. The anxiety was beyond terrible. And my brain felt like I had gone crazy. I had never felt like this in my life. I felt like I should be in a hospital. My brain felt completely empty and numb.

A friend mentioned that she thought I could be over methylating. And directed me here. I have been off all of my vitamins for a month now. The anxiety is calming but I feel sick in my body like I have a terrible flu 24/7. All of my symptoms that I had at the beginning of this are returning, the neuropathy, the temperature disregulation, the brain stuff, 0 appetite, everything. I desperately need the B vitamins to feel better but I can not tolerate them.

Last night, after feeling so sick in bed all day, I took 1/8 of a seeking health Hydroxocabalamin B 12. After taking it my appetite came back and I was able to feel good enough to get out of bed. My brain felt better. But.... this came with the price of my heart beating out of my chest for 8 hours straight and adrenaline running through my veins uncontrollably.

So my question is, what do I do? Where do I go from here? How can I get back to where I was, taking my B vitamins and feeing better? How do I get out of this madness?

I don’t have my blood test back yet, but I believe this has something to do with CBS pathway. The vitamin B1 is sulfur based as is the ALA. I stopped tolerating them both but also the B vitamins. I have been taking niacin to calm down and also molybdenum but the molybdenum makes me feel sicker. I need to be able to take the B1 for my condition but I can not tolerate even a small amount of it currently.

Lastly, I was thinking about going to the Biologix Center For Healing. Do you think hey will be able to help me with this there?

I truly appreciate your help and advice so much.

 

[junkcrap50]

You might benefit from reading Dr. Longsdale book. He's an expert on thiamine and thiamine deficiency.

 

[splusholia]

Just a few thoughts...

Are you taking a multivitamin? Perhaps these symptoms could mean that you’ve run out of a cofactor that is required for the b-vitamins to work.

Have you checked your electrolytes? I think sometimes b vitamins (b12 in particular) can use up potassium pretty quickly.

Are you taking enough magnesium? I know Dr. Longsdale says thiamine can’t work without magnesium.

 

[gbells]

Symptomatically, the best treatment with research for anxiety is organic essential lavender oil. Two drops in 8 oz of water, stirred. Sip it. It is nonaddicting.

You shouldn't need to take the antibiotic longer than two weeks since you are not on immunosuppressants. Stopping it will eliminate the poisoning effect. That should solve the problem. If it persists then it is being caused by something else.

 

[STL_girl]

You might benefit from reading Dr. Longsdale book. He's an expert on thiamine and thiamine deficiency.

Thank you! I have read Dr. Lonsdales book. It is full of great information. Unfortunately there is nothing in the book to help with not being able to tolerate the B1 or the sulfur it produces.

 

[STL_girl]

Just a few thoughts...

Are you taking a multivitamin? Perhaps these symptoms could mean that you’ve run out of a cofactor that is required for the b-vitamins to work.

Have you checked your electrolytes? I think sometimes b vitamins (b12 in particular) can use up potassium pretty quickly.

Are you taking enough magnesium? I know Dr. Longsdale says thiamine can’t work without magnesium.

Thank you for your thought! Yes I am taking magnesium. And I do believe I am potassium deficient. I have ordered a quality potassium product and I am awaiting it arrival. It should come today. I was seeing great improvement with the B1 and then all of a sudden I was no laomger able to tolerate it. It feels like something is burning inside my brain when I take it along with increased anxiety. The same anxiety that I feel from over methylation. I think it has something to do with Overmethylation and my sulfur pathways. Molybdenum alone isn’t fixing the problem.

 

[STL_girl]

Symptomatically, the best treatment with research for anxiety is organic essential lavender oil. Two drops in 8 oz of water, stirred. Sip it. It is nonaddicting.

You shouldn't need to take the antibiotic longer than two weeks since you are not on immunosuppressants. Stopping it will eliminate the poisoning effect. That should solve the problem. If it persists then it is being caused by something else.

Thank you for your reply! I have been off of the antibiotic for 6 months. It caused a severe vitamin definciency called beri beri and that is why I am taking the B1. I was also taking methylfolate, methyl B12, Alpha Lipoic Acid and magnesium. All of a sudden the B1 stopped helping me and started burning my brain and causing massive anxiety beyond what I’ve ever experience or thought possible. I believe it has something to do with the sulfur from the B1, Overmethylation from the B vitamins( since I can no longer tolerate them as well), or something else. I just wish I knew how to put things back in order and what I am missing or need to reset this.

 

[STL_girl]

I’ve been off all the B vitamins for 1 month now and I few so sick inside my body. Like there is poison in my veins. I feel at times that my heart is beating so slow that is is barely beating. Something is not right. I must be severely deficient in something. Could going off the methylfolate cause this? Like I said, I have been off all B vitamins for 1 month because I overmethylated. But instead of feeling better. I’m feeling sicker than ever.

 

[junkcrap50]

I'm not sure if this would be helpful, but I had some severe symptoms from doing the Fredd Methylation Protocol. I ended up having to take huge doses of methylfolate while stopping B12 and other methylation drivers (but not cofactors). My symptoms were the following:

Main complaint currently: Very sore, achy, and tight muscles – painful even. Occurs mainly in arms, calves, and legs; and easy muscle burning (lactic acid feeling) from walking up stairs, changing lightbulb, scratching back, etc.

Common concurring symptoms with muscle soreness: warm feeling in chest/abdomen, heart palpitations, tight muscles – mainly neck and Achilles

You can see more of my post and how I relieved most of my symptoms by taking HUGE methylfolate doses here (https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...iciency-or-just-screwed-up.43918/#post-715165) and here(https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...e-folate-deficiency-or-just-screwed-up.43918/).

My explanation for why my symptoms occured and how huge methylfolate doses help is the following:

I don't believe Fredd's stuff is necessarily applicable for ME/CFS parients (just him who was in severe B12 defiecnecy) or even true to begin with. I think his protocol is dangerous.

The best explanation I can give is that these methylation supplements (Fredd's quadtro) PUSH the methylation cycle and the chemical reaction pathways by having excess reagents. If you don't have cofactors or other parts to support the methylatoin cycle, having excess reagents or "pushers" of the cycle can cause a build up. This will drive inflammation very high by having broken methylation/biochemical pathways. Adding methylfolate will relieve this chemical reaction/pathway pressure build up by excess "PUSHING."

The methylfolate alone won't hurt. It will just "use" up the excess / build up of B12 and other cofactors. If you take huge methylfolate with B12 and other cofactors, then you will just build upon the problem. Once you "run" the methylation cycle to relieve any buildup or blockages or relieve the pathway pressure -- by taking large doses of methylfolate -- you can stop or taper down the methylfolate.

Note, that because I took 53mg of methlyfolate SUBLINGUALLY and INTRANASALLY. This equates to taking ~250+mg orally. (A HUGE NUMBER!) I don't remember the exact absorption rates, but oral ingestion absorption of methylation supplements is something like 20%. Intranasal and sublingual is something like 85%-90+% absorbed. So orally 53.4mg = 10.68mg absorbed. 53.4mg sublingual = 48.06mg absorbed. ~5x absorption.

After ~2 weeks of mega doses of mfolate, I was able to stop all methylfolate and methylation supplements.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/how-do-you-break-a-folate-trap.76754/#post-2214477

Hope this helps.

 

[xploit316]

I’ve been off all the B vitamins for 1 month now and I few so sick inside my body. Like there is poison in my veins. I feel at times that my heart is beating so slow that is is barely beating. Something is not right. I must be severely deficient in something. Could going off the methylfolate cause this? Like I said, I have been off all B vitamins for 1 month because I overmethylated. But instead of feeling better. I’m feeling sicker than ever.

Dont take any B vitamins in supplement form, your body is giving you the signs not to take them. You can get enough through balanced diet, I took Methyl Bs a year back and got severe anxiety, rage and depression. Try some decaf espresso coffee (contains niacin) it will help you.

 

[Mick]

WARNING! LONG POST!

No warning necessary, the post was not that long.

But jokes aside...
I sometimes (especially recently) get similar symptoms to yours. E.g. now I have difficulties driving car because if the situation gets too stressful (and there are many on the road) then it really gets me. It's like an electric shock... and it's because of the adrenalin rush... in my case it's because of carnitine, MCT, ribose and many others (incl. B vitamins) that I take - these make too energetic and too "jumpy".

From my experience, niacinamide is much better than niacin as a de-methylating agent. Niacin will cause you increased levels of prostaglandin PGD2 which will cause you discomfort, inflammation, etc. I could never get used to that effect, ie. my levels of PGD2 were always very high and never went down as they were supposed at low niacin doses and they never went down in spite of repeated attempts and low doses of niacin.
And I was going crazy because of how it felt. So, on one hand, niacin causes de-methylation ie. makes you better, on the other hand, it makes you worse, it makes as crazy as (methyl)folate overdose. But that's me.
BTW. Too high a dose of niacinamide to de-methylate will also make me too jumpy and almost maniac (ie. feeling very very good). Haha, so funny there is always a catch. And to make it even more complicated niacinamide (or niacin for that matter) caused me a lot of anxiety before I was properly methylated - and the answer is simple here: de-methylation caused an instant drop in methylation of neurotransmitters and hence the feeling of anxiety. So, it's a balancing act and knowing how to deal with your every single symptom. I'm sorry that I won't be able to describe every one of them below but what can you do.

Looks like your nervous system overreact to (high/any) doses of B vitamins. The obvious solution is to stop taking them for a while (as it was mentioned above), then maybe to supplement all other B vitamins, then to supplement co-factors. There are so many of them that it's hard to guess which one may be necessary. What I usually do? I try one by one, and see what happens.

Now, the most important thing. If you get too nervous/jumpy, you should take something that counteracts that.
There are so many tranquilizing agents (of course I'm talking about supplements here, but there are also pharmacological agents, still - if you go to a doctor and tell him/her that you did it to yourself when supplementing then it may be considered that you *are* a nut case because - why would you want to supplement in the first place when supplements are considered by doctors as something that doesn't actually work - been there, done that; it's better to be careful what you say, or it may turn against you). Examples of such tranquilizing agents: GABA and glycine. I don't know if these would be the best in your case but it's just an idea.

And there are a few supplements that are supposed to lower your adrenaline (google them) if your symptoms are caused by excessive adrenaline.

It may also be a good idea to see a doctor. It's possible that it is all a coincidence. If you have an adrenaline secreting tumor for example (or hyperthyroidism), then you obviously need treatment for that.

 

[vision blue]

I'd be curious to know of an update on this since its now more than 6 months later. Did the excess B1 finally dissapate? maybe it was that final more complicated supposedly better formulation that set it all off. do you still have beri beri? still can't tolerate B? back to your pre antibiotic days?

alot of good stuff on here (prostaglandins and niacin, overmethylation, supplments fo rincreased adreneline (?? say more?). Anyway, wish i had more to contribute to this, but I don't.