I'm 100% better, can function again

[Hip]

But I've been perfectly fine and it's now 5 days later! I really want to know what's going on... Is it the phenyl? Is it something else I've been doing?

Very interesting.

I usually get PEM from social activities (talking and laughing with friends). I will try taking some phenylpiracetam before my next social event, and see if it reduces PEM.

 

[hvac14400]

i guess i can't speak about myself right now - i got huge fatigue onset recently from god knows what - maybe i finally f#cked up my potassium levels with folic acid, maybe it's my diet and overtraining in the gym, maybe some respiratory infection that am gettin every one to two weeks constantly, or food poisoning or just a bud luck - have no any idea : \
still 100mg fenotropil 2 times a day everyday tho.

 

[panckage]

@helen1 I'm still waiting to receive my phenylpiracetam. I guess you must be psychic haha. Ask me again in a few weeks if I forgot and I should be able to give you a definitive answer

It doesn't seem unusual though as ritalin usually allows me to do some exercise without any crashing

 

[helen1]

@panckage

Seriously ritalin prevents you crashing from exercise? That's huge news.

I don't understand when you say it doesn't seem unusual. I didnt think PEM had a remedy though have heard a few respond to BCAAs, ribose or creatine or bicarbonate.

Do you have an explanation for how the Ritalin would help with PEM?

How many times have you experienced this?

 

[hvac14400]

@helen1

phenotropil it's an example of a whole new class of drugs - it's a neuromodulator. and because your nervous (central and autonomic) system manages and controls every single system/cell in your body, the possibilities for this class of drugs are simple endless.
phen can upregutate some function that is down currently and downregulate the same function if it goes out of control - that is the main beauty of this drug, according to its mother V. I. Akhapkina.

so maybe what you observing now it's a cumulative healing effect through multiple use of phen.

btw - after a 2 days of banana eating and 2000mcg sublingval b12 i am recovered and feeling great today,
despite yesterday's workout and being in caloric deficit for more than 5 months without a break.

i think i can confirm effect of phen on the physical exhaustion, but not on the neuroimmune exhaustion yet, which i experience usually after sex only. will test this soon.

 

[panckage]

Seriously ritalin prevents you crashing from exercise? That's huge news.

Well I guess more precisely ritalin allows me to do exercise at level that would be impossible otherwise. It allows my heart rate to get into a more normal range for exercise (ie. 130-140bpm) whereas if I don't take it my heart rate stays low (~110bpm) and I just feel feint so I quit the exercise soon after starting. After my ritalin exercise sessions I feel no better or worse than before. Now I still need to pace myself and maybe I need more sleep when I exercise like that but overall I would definitely say it has a positive effect on my condition

I don't understand when you say it doesn't seem unusual. I didnt think PEM had a remedy though have heard a few respond to BCAAs, ribose or creatine.

I wouldn't say it's a remedy for PEM it just allows me to do more before that occurs. If you read the boards it seems like half the people here have something that helps their PEM at least a little bit

Do you have an explanation for how the Ritalin would help with PEM?

It makes me feel normal . There is research indicating that ritalin helps with POTS although what relation that has to PEM I have no clue. As you may know the research with ritalin and cfs is mixed. I guess it probably won't be of much use for the severe cases, but for the mild cases it should be more beneficial. Maybe that's the difference in the research? As a mild case myself I believe for optimum effectiveness I can only take it 2 or 3 times a week. More than that just makes me feel weird but then again my symptoms seem pretty random so it's quite difficult for me say that with much certainty

How many times have you experienced this?

I've been using ritalin for years and has always worked pretty good for exercise although there is a pretty big range for that. I'm guessing that range is probably due to the underlying severity of my condition at the time

 

[cph13]

This thread gave me the courage to try adderall again. We will see what happens by tomorrow.

 

[Hip]

Ritalin (methylphenidate) stimulates complex II and complex IV in mitochondria, so it can boost mitochondrial function. I posted some information about this in a comment here.

Ritalin is not the only compound which boosts various mitochondrial complexes; others include:

Pyrroloquinoline quinone — stimulates complex I.
Gingko biloba — stimulates complexes I and III.
Melatonin — stimulates complexes I and IV.
Methylene blue — stimulates complex IV.
Deprenyl — stimulates complex IV.
Bezafibrate — stimulates complex IV.

Cort also wrote two blogs on Ritalin for ME/CFS:
Stimulating Energy: Enhancing the Mitochondria in the Synergy Clinical Trial for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

Ritalin (Methylphenidate) For Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia

 

[hvac14400]

@panckage

Well I guess more precisely ritalin allows me to do exercise at level that would be impossible otherwise. It allows my heart rate to get into a more normal range for exercise (ie. 130-140bpm) whereas if I don't take it my heart rate stays low (~110bpm) and I just feel feint so I quit the exercise soon after starting.

what type of exercises you're doin - endurance? i always thought, that the less hr is the better, for gaining muscle mass, i.e. it shows high level of your cardiovascular system conditionig.
but then i read that for PENE is not simple as that and that probably we are f#cked to the end of the days : (

Cardiovascular/Energy system – Studies have found that peak oxygen consumption and maximum capacity for oxygen consumption are lower in CFS patients than controls [11,12,13]. Patients have difficulty achieving their predicted target heart rate, and their maximum workload at exhaustion is substantially lower than controls. The average level of maximum oxygen consumption in patients was similar to patients with chronic heart failure and other conditions [14]. Research has also suggested that muscle energy metabolism is impaired, as evidenced by higher levels of lactate and other measures of oxidative stress [15].
Immune system – Research provides evidence for associations between measures of intracellular immune deregulations and exercise performance in CFS patients [16] A 20-minute bicycle ride caused increases in the levels of the immune protein C4a in CFS patients (but not controls), and the increase was significantly correlated with the severity of post-exercise symptom flare. C4a increases in healthy athletes as well, but after intense exercise such as a 2.5 hour run [17]. A high symptom flare after exercise in CFS patients correlated with elevated levels of six immune cytokines; neither controls nor patients with lower levels of symptom flares showed the same cytokine activity [18].

my resting hr is sorta "conditioned" - like 60-66 bpm, but it can jump up straight to 130 just while walking the street : \
and this is not so hard workout in the gym:





like most of the work am doin is aerobic : \

I've been using ritalin for years and has always worked pretty good for exercise although there is a pretty big range for that. I'm guessing that range is probably due to the underlying severity of my condition at the time

i feel the same about fenotropil - it can correct some things, but it's in no way "magic" pill - if your body depleted of potassium for example, you can't fix that with just fen alone, making that potassium from thin air : )

 

[hvac14400]

@cph13

This thread gave me the courage to try adderall again. We will see what happens by tomorrow.

go for it - we need more experiments

 

[hvac14400]

@Hip

Ritalin (methylphenidate) stimulates complex II and complex IV in mitochondria, so it can boost mitochondrial function. I posted some information about this in a comment here.

Ritalin is not the only compound which boosts various mitochondrial complexes; others include:

interesting info - i've had very good results messing with mitos in the past, when my cfs was most horrible, but this drug is banned here. will research this further, thanx.

 

[cph13]

@cph13


go for it - we need more experiments

I took 17 1/2 mg of adderall and I was not impressed. Id rather go with what is safer. I've had success with alpha gpc choline and uridine...didn't realize how much success til I stopped it 2 weeks ago. Back on a gpc choline today without the uridine and I'm doubling the dose. Yes, I want my brain back too..... and I'm happy to oblige ...

 

[panckage]

what type of exercises you're doin -

I play video games while riding my exercise bike
I really like my exercise bike because it's much less strenuous than running and it's easy to control heart rate by going faster or slower and if I ever need to pass out my bed is only a couple feet away

I also do some strength training. This is less successful but was more success about a year ago. Right now I do push-ups, pull ups, and lateral raises. I also have gymnastics rings that I like to swing around on like a monkey but I haven't had much energy for that these days. Last year I was even doing squats with 40lb weight. Crap I wish I could do that again ><

Sex is also great exercise but it hard to get quality women to stick around with this illness. You know how in porn the guy just falls asleep after sex and doesn't care about the woman? Well for me it's worse last time I pretty much fell asleep during sex and didn't care about the woman lololololol the only thing I cared about was sleep,,!,,!

 

[hvac14400]

>go for it - we need more experiments

I took 17 1/2 mg of adderall and I was not impressed. Id rather go with what is safer. I've had success with alpha gpc choline and uridine...didn't realize how much success til I stopped it 2 weeks ago.and I'm happy to oblige ...

i accidentally got into experiment myself today - took 150% of usually daily dose of phenotropil, because of my short memory shortage, lol.
didn't felt anything, until started working out at 11 pm, which is not so easy by itself already.
a steady flow of energy - all 60 minutes, that was simply great! not that jittery ups and downs what you usually gettin from caffeine or other stimulants, no - it just felt like i can go on and on and on, like i got stamina increase.
no strength increase tho, but im ok with that - it's not a steroid : )

 

[hvac14400]

I play video games while riding my exercise bike

lucky bastard - i can play them only on weekends

Right now I do push-ups, pull ups, and lateral raises. I also have gymnastics rings that I like to swing around on like a monkey but I haven't had much energy for that these days. Last year I was even doing squats with 40lb weight. Crap I wish I could do that again ><

hey man - i don't think that you need 130 bpm for such sort of activity - it's too much, and just indicates that your blood pressure is too low for the job. im suffering from this too, read this topic - http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ible-implication-in-me-cfs-part-1-of-2.32218/

You know how in porn the guy just falls asleep after sex and doesn't care about the woman? Well for me it's worse last time I pretty much fell asleep during sex and didn't care about the woman lololololol the only thing I cared about was sleep,,!,,!

whoops
i don't fall asleep during or after, but start feeling tired more and more like 30-60 min after. and then if don't sleep for like 1-2 hours, i'll be feelin like sh!t till the end of that day.
i think there is separate problem called POIS - post orgasmic illness syndrome, maybe we got that sh!t too? who knows.

 

[cph13]

i accidentally got into experiment myself today - took 150% of usually daily dose of phenotropil, because of my short memory shortage, lol.
didn't felt anything, until started working out at 11 pm, which is not so easy by itself already.
a steady flow of energy - all 60 minutes, that was simply great! not that jittery ups and downs what you usually gettin from caffeine or other stimulants, no - it just felt like i can go on and on and on, like i got stamina increase.
no strength increase tho, but im ok with that - it's not a steroid : )

Hurry, where do U live? I want some this minute, lol....Glad your goof is working out. You will probalby sleep tomorrow away. Enjoy the ENGERGY. What I wouldn't give for a year of that....

If I may ask your help. Do you know of any of the listed bulk suppliers that DON'T use China products. Or can you recommend 1 or 2that you prefer.. I'm going to need to get some in a hurry. I didn't realize how low I was on the AGPC choline.
Greatly appreciated. Damn, I should have just ordered the phenotropil.....I'm such a chicken sh*t. TIA Have a
SPINNING day XO C

 

[Hip]

Do you know of any of the listed bulk suppliers that DON'T use China products.

Are you referring to the phenylpiracetam suppliers in this earlier post?

You'd have to email them if you want to find out where they source their products. Do you have a specific reason for avoiding Chinese-made pharmaceuticals and supplements?

 

[hvac14400]

If I may ask your help. Do you know of any of the listed bulk suppliers that DON'T use China products. Or can you recommend 1 or 2that you prefer.. I'm going to need to get some in a hurry. I didn't realize how low I was on the AGPC choline.

i live in the ex soviet union - the place where phenotropil was born, so i have no idea about suppliers in other countries, sorry. and you must take into account, that we all are different - what works for me may not work for you and vice versa, that's why i've said:

we need more experiments

only in this way you can find what works for you.
i don't wanna bring false hopes here, coz in the last 9 years i have tried ALOT of sh!t, that may have altered my body's biochemistry permanently - many types of anabolic steroids, human growth hormone, insulin, HGC and etc, lol.

 

[Hip]

By the way, bad news for those like myself in the UK:

The incredibly badly thought out and clumsy Psychoactive Substances Act 2016, which basically bans everything that affects the mind (except alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, and drugs like antidepressants), may also ban nootropic drugs ("smart drugs"). This new law comes into force in the UK on 6 April 2016.

www.smartnootropics.co.uk say that:

From April 5th 2016 we will no longer be supplying the following products:

Adrafinil
Coluracetam
Centrophenoxine
Noopept
Phenibut
Phenylpiracetam
Pramiracetam
Sunifiram
Oxiracetam
Selank & Semax

We are withdrawing these products from sale as a result of the “Psychoactive Substances Act” that will come into force on April 6th.

The Psychoactive Substances Act was intended to target “Legal Highs” and we believe that the Act was in no way intended to target nootropics. However, in an effort to halt the consumption of legal highs, the Act casts a blanket ban over all substances deemed “psychoactive”. A small number of substances are exempt including caffeine, nicotine, alcohol and food.

Because nootropics are not clearly listed as exempt, we are cautiously withdrawing the above products from sale on April 5th.

 

[helen1]

Sorry to hear this @Hip. That is bad news indeed. Will you not be able to order online then?