Huge energy today with Grapefruit and Ubiquinol (Coenzyme Q10). We'll see about tomorrow.

[pattismith]

Has anyone else experienced a bad response to CoQ10?

I do, I have headache with only 50 mg ubiquinol. I tryed several doses for weeks.

I have Low T3 and high rT3, this could be the cause.

I started Idebenone some weeks ago and still tolerate it.

 

[BeautifulDay]

My self-experiment is coming to an end. I definitely have much more energy with the added grapefruit juice.

However, I also am hypercoagulable (Factor V Leiden plus Factor V R2). Years ago, my hematologist started me on 2 low dose aspirins a day, which brought my prothrombin fragment 1+2 into the normal range. It also got rid of the pain in my left arm, the pain up the left side of my neck, and the feeling in my legs that the veins were clogged (a vibration like a hose being bent in half and the water having trouble getting by).

I've upped my baby aspirins until I get back to normal on these symptoms. I theorize that something in the grapefruit juice is somehow related to these hypercoagulable symptoms being back. It could just be coincidental. In the mean time, I've stopped all supplements and grapefruit juice for a few days for my system to clear out.

My hope is that if I can get back to my pre-grapefruit routine of B12, D3, and Ubiquinol, then I might add in grapefruit juice once a week. If that even gives me a little uptick in energy while not increasing my hypercoagulable symptoms, then I might have found my temporary sweet spot. The once weekly grapefruit juice of course, would be stopped if it sent my prothrombin fragment 1+2 back into clotting territory. I won't be testing that out until I clear out my system and just get back on my normal B12 and D3 and Ubiquinol routine for a while. Then once stabilized, I'll keep experimenting to find the best mix for me.

It would be so nice if our bodies came with manuals. No doctor is going to take the time to do the investigations necessary to tweak us into being the best we can be under the circumstances right now. A lot of the minute research and tweaking is really up to us and listening to our bodies.

Years ago, I told my doctors that my menses looked like black tar. Really dark black looking tar. I was told that happens sometimes. Since the hypercoagulable status was figured out and I went on the low dose aspirin regiment prescribed by my hematologist, menses are normal consistency and color. There are many symptoms that get better (or slightly better) when I am on the right track. I'm a big believer in listening to one's body.

 

[Mary]

@BeautifulDay, I've been meaning to post this for awhile. I did start grapefruit juice a few weeks ago and had a noticeable increase in energy for about 2 days. It was great. And then I overdid it because I felt good so I crashed, which -was not a big deal as I am used to it, but even after I recovered from the crash, the increase in energy never came back. I kept drinking grapefruit juice with breakfast and lunch (8 ounces each time) and after about 2 weeks realized I was dragging more than normal, quite tired all the time. I could not get my regular energy back. I had at first thought I was sick (which happens all the time) but this felt different.

So I began to wonder if the grapefruit juice was interfering with absorption of some of my regular supplements (as it does with various drugs) and focused on B12. And I found one sentence in one article which said not to take grapefruit juice with B12, no explanation. Anyways, I stopped the juice and increased my already high dose of B12 (two 5000 mcg doses of liquid methylcobalamin a day) and gradually over several days my energy started to come back.

So I don't have the chemistry, I don't know how this would work, but I'm pretty sure grapefruit juice interacts negatively somehow with B12 which might explain at least in part the negative reactions others have had with this.

I'm going to try restarting grapefruit juice but at the most a glass a day or even every other day and see how it goes. Maybe the answer is moderation? I tend to over do it, if something makes me feel good, then more must make me feel even better, right?

I haven't read this whole thread but am tagging @sissypop and @E.man because I saw you both had negative reactions.

 

[Sundancer]

thanks, I got me a grapefruit, but need the B12 badly too. I'll see how it goes and jot it down here.

and yes @Mary it's all about balance, more is not better. I tended to fall for that too

 

[E.man]

Interesting observation thanks @Mary .

I'm not drinking grapefruit juice as a constant.

I'm drinking it with co q10 to get more upright for longer for a day when I have to go out.

Something of a juggle given the time lapse. I seem to get disturbed sleep too.

Would be easy to go and do too much. Even without getting carried away I still feel smashed the next day.

It's a useful trick but it's not fixing anything.

 

[sissypop]

@Mary I'm no longer doing the grapefruit with coq10. Stopped about a week to ten days ago. Initially I thought it had a negative effect but now I'm not sure it was the grapefruit coq10 combo. I was having a lot of trouble sleeping at that time and that always has a big negative effect for me. I've tried coq10 multiple times over the years and never noticed any real improvement. But that seems to be the case with everything I try.

Any way now I'm trying 5 htp to try and help with sleep. I think I am sleeping a little bit better but nothing to write home about.

 

[researcher]

Has someone tried grapefruit seed extract instead of grapefruit juice?

 

[wigglethemouse]

@BeautifulDay Thought you might be interested in this paper
Beneficial Effects of Pomegranate on Lipid Metabolism in Metabolic Disorders (24 Jan 2019)

Amelioration of oxidative stress and the inflammatory response is considered an important reason underlying the regulation of lipid metabolism by pomegranate extracts. Mitochondria, the major cellular site for lipid oxidation, are strongly associated with cellular oxidative and inflammatory status and are likely to be a target for pomegranate extract action.

 

[BeautifulDay]

Thank you @wigglethemouse. Very informative.

In the last few months, my mito doctor has told me not to ever take statins because their deleterious impact on the mitochondria. She even put it in writing to me as a never take this drug -- even though I have very high cholesterol. I've been struggling with how to deal with this (lower my cholesterol without statins). After a few months of research, I decided to go vegan --- again (it works for me).

I enjoy Dr. Greger, Dr. Esselsytn, and Dr. Ornish's studies, books, videos. In the last few weeks, I've been following Dr. Greger's app called the "Daily Dozen" and my cholesterol is back in the normal range. It's amazing how quickly a vegan low fat diet works for me on my blood cholesterol without drugs.

I agree that pomegranates are full of antioxidants. I wish there was a second independent study on this subject. My skepticism peeks when a court finds that the pomegranate industry misrepresented an earlier study on their health benefits. I therefore have a hard time in accepting new pomegranate health studies that come later until there is corroborating evidence. It's so sad when industries muddy the water in the name of corporate greed.

Here is a video by Dr. Greger on the subject.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/is-pomegranate-juice-that-wonderful/

Thanks again @wigglethemouse
I'll keep a look out for more info on this.

 

[wigglethemouse]

In the last few months, my mito doctor has told me not to ever take statins because their deleterious impact on the mitochondria.

@BeautifulDay Here is a paper that backs that up. I wonder how many ME/CFS patients are also taking statins.....
Coenzyme Q10 and Statin-Induced Mitochondrial Dysfunction

The statin medications routinely result in lower coenzyme Q10 levels in the serum. Some studies have also shown reduction of coenzyme Q10 in muscle tissue. Such coenzyme Q10 deficiency may be one mechanism for statin-induced myopathies.

 

[BeautifulDay]

@wigglethemouse Great find! Thanks!

 

[godlovesatrier]

I've been taking ubiquinol now for about 2 weeks. 100mg a day. It's early days but to be honest I noticed an effect in the first few days and it certainly ramped up over time. I'm hoping I can stop taking all my immune stimulants as the side effects are too many and just focus on this if it continues to work. I'm allergic to so many different types of fruit but I may briefly try the grapefruit. Do I need to drink a lot @BeautifulDay to get the effects?

I can't believe the difference though. I used to take q10 300mg per day religiously in the early days (first 18 months) but stopped it due to cost. I've been reading Myhills work from scratch and she says the q10 levels will build up slowly until you only need a smaller ubiquinol dose for it to work. Other articles mention a weak heart being potentially one of the factors behind the extra q10 being needed.

Anyway I went for a 60 minute walk today and I was light headed for about 10 minutes but that abated simply by standing upright and walking round for a short time before continuing. I'm going to see how I get on but to be honest I can't actually believe the difference. Nothing has ever been this helpful and this stable! I'm only experiencing muscle fatigue for a few hours of a night after a long walk. Previously excercise would gradually get on top of me until I was back to square one within a few weeks not matter the graded excercise done (no surprise there).

I'll monitor and post back in a few weeks.

 

[andyguitar]

I'll monitor and post back in a few weeks.

Look forward to hearing how you get on @godlovesatrier

 

[Wayne]

she says the q10 levels will build up slowly until you only need a smaller ubiquinol dose for it to work.

Congratulations @godlovesatrier on your discovery and remarkable energy improvements. I didn't know that ubiquinol levels build up and then only small amounts are needed. Thanks for sharing that; and your story!

 

[godlovesatrier]

Shame I can't get blood tests for adp/atp and q10 but after a few days of pacing I'm getting the full benefit of the Ubiquinol again. Prior to starting it I was really struggling, both mentally and physically. Whereas now I'm able tolerate exertion better than previously. I'm going to see how I get on next week and in March as the winter season isn't done yet. The only side effect I've noticed is clenched jaw and slightly stimulated at times, it does vary, these are quite mild symptoms to deal with though, so not overly annoying.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Well after another week on 100mg of Ubiquinol the headaches finally arrived. They are pretty horrid but manageable. I had one for 48 hours across the front of my forehead that just wouldn't go. But as soon as I stopped taking the ubiquinol I felt the tiredness in my muscles that just wasn't there before. I must say I haven't had any fatigue for about 6 days, omega 3 6 and 9 seem to allow my body to carry out its normal renewal processes, so even though my energy levels tend to tank, I don't necessarily become badly fatigued anymore. I do wonder if the omega 3 plays quite a big part in this.

I've just started the ubiquinol again today after a 24 hour break. I also noticed that my jaw became very tight and that I was overly stimulated before bed which was directly due to the ubiquinol. These side effects are a lot worse and not ones that I can easily manage, i don't want to take melatonin every night even if I only take 0.3mg it's still not something I want to do. But boy do I sleep like a baby with only 0.3mg!! And my body feels better for it by morning too!

I'll keep an eye on this and might report back in a month when I've got into the spring and I don't have any botanicals interfering with the results.

 

[Wayne]

i don't want to take melatonin every night

@godlovesatrier -- I take 3 mg of melatonin every night, and have done so for many years. Is there a reason you don't want to take it nightly? -- I have a friend who takes 15 mg / night, and if she wakes up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep, takes another 15 mg.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I've read about a lot of people taking it every night. It's just so hard finding things that help but still being able to get to sleep and stay asleep. Melatonin is the only thing that worksfor me. I'm glad I can take it more long term!

 

[HRManager]

I also take my prescription for MitoMix

What is in the MitoMix? Is anything similar available OTC?

 

[andyguitar]

The only MItoMix I know of is a blend of herbs(and maybe some nutrients). You don't need a prescription for it.