How to lower norepinephrine

[HealthAdvocate1]

"I think all the supplements I'm taking now are just bandaids" <---- This!

Note I left out the sleep part, since while important for sure, it alone will not likely fix the many symptoms you have discussed in your posts.

And yes what you describe about driving yourself on the computer is a dead NE giveaway. Fortunately it is a more benign stage. It can get much worse leading to big crashes once the adrenals cave. And no most chronic stimulation of NE release is from the ANS and is not sourced in the adrenals. This is a common misconception. You have to find why the NE rushes. Less sleep certainly tips it the wrong way but sleep alone won't get you out of it.

And the whole point of NE is ... the body compensating for severe or chronic fatigue unless of course a true fight of flight response. Look at it another way a person with a dysregulated constant immune system attack (autoimmune or infectious) is essentially in a long perpetual state of fight or flight. Your body when sick would love for you to do nothing, lay around all day, sleep and do zip. But that is not how life works. The problem is over time if not corrected the sensitivity of the demands for no stress or lot of rest get higher and higher and the penalties in terms of NE get worse and worse until a person crashes. By then the adrenals are kaput if things go far enough.

NE may correlate with other adrenal dysfunction. But 9 /10 times you have to look at the immune system. That is where the command override authority sits. The other 1/10 are endemic neurotransmitter imbalances.

Did pregnenolone help you ? Why were you on it? It is the mother hormone. If you are deplete I would forget the GABA / NMDA worries they would be circumstantial in comparison. But I also would not try to self-medicate it without a doctor guiding you. Way to many interconnections. As an aside, my wife is on pregnenolone along with progesterone and estradiol and all her hormones completely balanced out (well except for some Armour thyroid her whole family has issues with). I took her to my same doctor a couple of years ago. She was like totally cured of her imbalances in like 3 visits. I was both happy and ridiculously envious. Sigh.

It is ironic since I should have been powering down hours ago. I have a bad head cold starting. I should be trying to sleep. But I am all full of "fake" energy at the keyboard? Why? NE. I am at that stage where I am still building to the peak. I am not looking forward to Easter weekend. This NE reaction is how my body reacts to inflammation at this point in my life because I spent so much of it getting swarmed by inflammation and ultimately living on NE. It should not be like that. It now usually isn't given the meds I take. But ... yeah ... you see the conundrum, right?

Anyways, now bedtime.

@dbkita
Where are you located? Can you provide the name of your wife's doctor and possibly contact information (phone). You can email me direct or just provide the name and I will look it up. Thanks
gratiasalvi1@gmail.com

 

[futuritycarpaccio]

What would high urinary dopamine and norepinephrine mean?

I also have high salivary dhea but not in plasma.

Should i try clonidine to sleep or should i do plasma exams first? I have insom ia and anxiety.

I felt well on the day after i took dexametasone (motivated)

I thinking in order to sleep i need to lower norepinephrine somehow. And the dexa experience makes me think i need to suppress thr adrenals?

 

[heyitisjustin]

Alpha 2 agonist and the meds shown below (with the exception of cocaine and TCA's) can be helpful.

Which of these have you tried and what was it you were trying to accomplish? Most, if not all of these seem pretty heavy handed and scary to me.

My main problem is sleep, seemingly due to high norepinephrine and histamine (and maybe tyramine). I might want to experiment with Indian snakeroot for its resperine, but this approach still seems like it carries too many risks (most likely me accidentally getting very hypotensive). I will read up on Indian snakeroot in my herb books and try to remember to post back.

 

[Emootje]

Which of these have you tried and what was it you were trying to accomplish?

I tried Clonidine (patch) and reserpine (Serpina) to lower what I think are high norepinephrine symptoms (nausea, paleness, sweating, tiredness, ischemic neuropathy and anxiety). Clonidine made me very sleepy and reserpine made me slightly depressed with completely disappearance of my motivation (low dopamine?). Both meds didn't help, maybe I need the high norepinephrine levels to compensate for my low blood volume...

 

[WoolPippi]

, maybe I need the high norepinephrine levels to compensate for my low blood volume...

I'm trying Florinef to raise my blood pressure.
I also found hydrocortisone supplements reduce the stress levels in my body, effectively lowering noradrenaline.

 

[Emootje]

Unfortunately Florinef doesn't work for me. IV saline does work but for a very short time (see figure below).

Fig: improvement of my (nor)adrenaline, renin and aldosterone levels after IV saline (@ 0 min).

 

[heyitisjustin]

Unfortunately Florinef doesn't work for me. IV saline does work but for a very short time (see figure below).View attachment 22102 Fig: improvement of my (nor)adrenaline, renin and aldosterone levels after IV saline (@ 0 min).

Thanks for bringing up fluronef (again?). I was on fluronef for a decade and wonder if that is why I slept fine then and/or have NE problems now. Do you know the mechanism by which fluronef decreases NE? Could your body adjust to fluronef and end up with more NE?

 

[Emootje]

Do you know the mechanism by which fluronef decreases NE?

Florinef increase blood volume > activates baroreceptors > lowers SNS > lowers NE

Could your body adjust to fluronef and end up with more NE?

I don't know... maybe it's the hypokalemia induced by fluronef...

 

[heyitisjustin]

Florinef increase blood volume > activates baroreceptors > lowers SNS > lowers NE

Thanks again for the in depth knowledge you've dropped.

Is blood volume the same as vasodilation? I am looking for non steroidal alternatives to fluronef. Thus far I've found Dang Gui, cayenne, Ginko and l-arginine. I'm not sure if l-arginine vasodilating properties would help lower NE. What do you think? Can you think of anything else worth trying?

 

[Emootje]

Is blood volume the same as vasodilation?

No, but I think there is a correlation... In the kidney most vasodilators causes natriuresis that results in lower blood volume. In the rest of the body prolonged vasodilation causes an increase blood volume especially in the veins and venules because they store most of our blood:

I'm not sure if l-arginine vasodilating properties would help lower NE. What do you think?

l-Arginine did nothing for me

Can you think of anything else worth trying?

Fasting/low sugar/starch diet and slow breathing are most helpful for me. Taurine also did helped a bit...

 

[heyitisjustin]

l-Arginine did nothing for me

Fasting/low sugar/starch diet and slow breathing are most helpful for me. Taurine also did helped a bit...

Is it the speed of breath or the depth of the breath that helps you? I feel like I have a constriction preventing deep breath, that is why I ask.

Have you tried Dang Gui (Chinese Angelica Root, Radix Angelicae Sinensis)?

 

[Emootje]

Is it the speed of breath or the depth of the breath that helps you?

Both, you need to move your diaphragm with deep and slow belly breaths to massage your vagus nerve:

Normally pulse rates (and your SNS) increase with inspiration and decrease with expiration (respiratory sinus arrhythmia), so it also help to extent your exhalation (you could monitor this with a heart rate watch).

Have you tried Dang Gui (Chinese Angelica Root, Radix Angelicae Sinensis)?

I did but can't remember any effect, it suppose to increase epo, so it's good for your RBC mass.

 

[virtual]

Olive Leaf Extract has been quite effective for me.

Hmm, I believed oleuropein will raise adrenaline and noradrenaline both. I have to invest some time. I believe there was a study. But maybe I am wrong. MAO inhibitor?

 

[ldn]

That is usually a stress indicator related to norepinephrine. Your body raises cortisol to try to handle the stress. But after a while it goes of rhythm peaking too late or start to get depleted. Virtually EVERY adrenal fatigue is first preceded by a period of excessive or upregulated cortisol production. This is the drain. The crash comes when you can't make much of anything anymore. In fall 2009 one week my morning random cortisol was a 30 (yes 30). Two weeks later a six. Then back up. Then like a 3. That was when I started passing out. Not fun.

What gets tricky is NE vs glutamate. For me the former is tell-tale by what your CV signs are like. The latter is about your sensory system and your hypothalamus.

Do you get night sweats at all? Weird temperature issues when sleeping? Problems with feeling to hot? That is usually NE. If you can hear a flea make a sound on the back of a semi six miles away while trying to sleep. That is glutamate. Sucks when a person gets both at once. Ick. Bad memories. High glutamate enhances pain perception. NE drains the body of resources since it is your last of defense energy source.

People who have high cortisol at night just mean they aren't ready to go to bed. They are too alert relative to where they should when they lay down. Their clock is moved, etc. Natural cortisol production is not the enemy. But if not following the correct exponential like production pattern then you may be showing some signs of other issues. The fact that cortisol is supposed to drop at night is what allows the body to increase innate healthy inflammation (like various prostaglandins, etc. and not to be confused with disease related inflammation) and that is HOW you sleep. Melatonin is just a signaling trigger. The immune system not being as carefully corralled is what send you off to dreamland believe it or not.

Those of us with disease inflammatory states have a different problem. The immune system is trying to suppress the adrenal chronically in order to what it perceives is its job. Eventually it wins. Once it wins the adrenal crash and even non-cortisol hormones tank. When your progesterone, DHEA, pregnenolone, aldsosterone, and sex hormones, tank then you are in real trouble. However, even before the immune system achieves victory, crack can show through ... it is when those cracks start to break out that NE comes out to play when you least want it. Think of cortisol as one of the main (but not only) chains on your sympathetic nervous system. Trust me you don't want the sympathetic nervous system / NE to break confinement, especially since it eggs on inflammation in a very vicious cycle. Adreno used to joke about my analogy as if I was discussing creature from a monster movie. Heh. Kind of not far from the truth in certain respects.

The rapid fight or flight response is not the cortisol. It is the NE generated on the fly in your ANS (not even your adrenals, reaction time too slow). In the distant past when you ran into that cave bear and your heart rate shot up and you climbed a tree in a hurry (assuming there was a tree) that response needed to be johnny on the spot. But ... you aren't supposed to live that way. The more time in your day that NE is active, the worse the signs of the immune vs adrenal struggle.

Btw the caveat to measuring catecholamines is it only tells you NE / DA in the periphery. Doesn't tell you about the ANS / CNS concentrations. But analysis of the metabolites like VMA, HVA, etc. may show you something. I get sick of all these companies that offer neurortransmitter tests for the body. They sure seem to not want to talk about the BBB. But then again what are you going to do? Have spinal taps? I wouldn't

That was very interesting and extremely helpful. 18 years in and chronic stress ( working in the Middle East post-9/11) was a huge factor in my original bodily collapse, HPA pretty much kaput then. Tried DHEA supplement years ago to try and balance out my cortisol, but now realise the dose was too low - started it again at 50mg recently and my overall pain and mood has improved as my rampant cortisol is finally being balanced out. NE also an ongoing factor, I have found magnesium glycinate, NAC and phosphatidylserine to be very helpful, currently awaiting a delivery of Guanfacine to see how that fits into the mix, as all CFS symptoms have worsened since a serious fight with Covid last year.

 

[hapl808]

This is a fascinating thread that I wish I found years ago - but also frustrating when we look back 10 years ago and how little progress has been made. Still the only place to find this info is a random forum as opposed to a physician's office, and we have no way to judge its veracity.

I've spent years trying to figure out if my constant cognitive crashes are related to dopamine or norepinephrine or what. My Parkinsons-like symptoms, etc. Seems like dopamine, but things I've tried either do nothing, or help briefly and then make me worse.

I've tried magnesium, testosterone, DHEA, SAM-e, NAC, phosphatidylserine, potassium, guanfacine, propranolol, etc. So I'm always wondering if I just need to tweak dosages, or find something else, or just give up.

My testosterone is (was?) naturally high. I had one doctor who wanted me to try it and it made all my symptoms much worse (after a very brief improvement). I haven't done DHEA long enough to see much - when I tried it, I didn't notice anything. I don't think I've done pregnenolone for long - but I do have it here. SAM-e gives me more energy, but I have the feeling over time it slowly overloads my system.

Anyways, so many threads here. Would be nice to fine-tune an AI on the content here to ask it questions.