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How do I know if I am having "Die off"

Sushi

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xlynx,

I had to be away from electronics for a day due to a laser detox, so missed this exciting Betaine HCL saga. I'll just jump in and say ME TOO!

I had super low stomach acid as tested by swallowing a tiny radio transmitter and doing a bunch of stuff with baking soda and HCL. I too rely on Betaine HCL and am sure it helps with the damn candida.

Sushi
 

Dreambirdie

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Hi Dreambirdie,

Thank you for clarifying, no problem I know its going to take long I just get excited quickly, :D as soon as the evening comes and I am feeling a bit better I get excited and optimistic about everything.

I know now that nothing seems to be quick about cfs :Retro smile:. What bugs me about the doctor is I had very low acid on my test and I asked him about 5 times should I start taking it but he said yes yes and then we didnt have enough time so we left it but its another 6 weeks until my next appointment and how wrong can I go by trying it, at worst ill burn a hole in my sofa :D.

xlynx---

Glad to hear your enthusiasm, :victory: I don't want to put a damper on that. :Retro tongue::Retro tongue::Retro tongue:
Just want you to be realistic. If your candida was fully established, it will take some time to get your gut in order and to get candida under control. But I think you'll be on the right track by trying out the Betaine HCl. That will be the first step. Then once you're digesting properly, you can figure out what else is needed.

Giving the liver some assistance will ease the effects of toxicity, but finding the right herbs for that may take some experimentation. Some people do best with the milk thistle, some with dandelion, and others do better with bupleurum. My personal favorite blood cleanser is red clover, which I sometimes drink by the quart. I make a strong tea from the flower buds and drink it all day. You'll have to feel out which herbs are right FOR YOU.

So good luck with it all. Keep us posted. And please... don't burn a hole in your sofa! :eek::Retro wink::Retro smile:
 

Dreambirdie

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I used to have a lot of problems with candida but now I'm almost trouble -free since I stopped drinking black tea.
Black tea... hmmmm? :confused: I wonder how that affected candida? Did you put sugar in it?

I've never heard of black tea a problem for those with candida, but I'm sure there is a reason why it helped you to stop drinking it.
 
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As you may know, we usually drink a LOT of tea here in the UK. I assumed that I'd just developed an intolerance to it. Taking sugar with it was not an issue as I continue to eat plenty of sugar in biscuits. It wasn't the milk in it either as I drink lattes now instead. On the subject of intolerances, I've noticed that I can't touch bananas because they give me IBS. It's all very specific to one food. For instance, eggs give me acne and dates give me mouth ulcers.
 

Catseye

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Chinese bitters!

The easiest place is vitacost, cheap and nice on shipping. Just get a tincture bottle of bupleurum and a tincture bottle of gentian root. I use the Nature's Answer brand. Together they come to $17.35 and since shipping is $4.99 for any size order, it's a great place to pick up anything you need. Be careful, you can spend hours on there. They have a very large tea selection that I have spent hours going through. :Retro tongue:

Strange, I just looked up the Chinese bitters ingredients on there. They have the gentian in 1 or 2 oz bottles for the same price, so you may as well get the bigger one. They don't even refer to these things as Chinese bitters, only bupleurum and gentian root, if you are going to use the search function. The taste is really, really bitter so you may want a chaser on hand, even if it's just water.:scared:
 

xlynx

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noooooo, I lost my post :Retro mad:

Thanks for the info from vitacost catseye I had a good check on vitacosts which lated about 35 mins and have not yet finished making the purchase I could buy everything (getting parcels in the post is an excitement as I cant shop at the moment). Would be great to have a alcoholic chaser but hey right now I think water might be the best bet :D

Dreambirdie are you talking about red clover tea like this http://www.vitacost.com/Alvita-Caffeine-Free-Red-Clover I think I will give that a shot also and see what works best for me.

The good news for me is that I am feeling a little better after cutting back on the anti fungals so we slowly step up again over the next few days.

Just wanted to ask if I should expect to feel any improvement when I finally beat candida, my doctor thinks I should feel alot better? Has anyone noticed improvements after it has gone. I am also waiting for a cdsa and hope this will show me something I can work on.

I read somewhere that black tea can kill off good bacteria in the gut maybe had something to do with that.
 

Sushi

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For me getting candida under control was a biggie! :victory:

I felt a lot better....time after time after time! It is a battle with many rounds--for me anyway. I now have discovered that I can't be complacent--I need to do maintenance. As for how much, I pop a couple of caprylic acid caps about twice a day (about 1000mg) and also take a couple of drops of Young Living Oils oregano oil in a capsule with some olive oil. Or I use BioTics tablet oregano.

Until I discover the roots of being susceptible to candida, it is an ongoing skirmish. :ashamed:

Sushi
 

xlynx

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Hi Sushi,

lol I like the bit about an ongoing skirmish.

I hope the same applys for me then :).

Are you now able to ever eat things with sugar or the occasional glass of alcohol?

I miss the naughty things!
 
S

Suzy

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Dreambirdie and all - HCL

I have a strange history with HCL. I have been ill 11 years. Over the course of that time, I tried HCL several times. EAch time I needed huge numbers of pills to get heartburn (14 or so) and one time I didnt' even get it.

Last year, after taking potassium broth, a little zinc (like 10mg) I got heartburn after only 2 pills. I thought Great! problem solved. I then wait and had the Heidelberg test and it confirmed my stomach acid was sufficient.

Time went on, I did the baking soda test periodically and it was hard to tell if I passed or not b/c I have background burping anyway but I thought I was passing the test.

I'm back on HCL now, 3 iwth normal meals, 2 with smaller and no heartburn. But after reading Dreambirdies post, I'll increase more and hopefully get heartburn at a reasonable dose.

Dreambirdie - how much weight did you gain ? That is such good news.
 
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Hi Xlynx:
I've had the same experience as those that wrote before you.....I backed off on the anti-fungals for 3 days, felt better, then knew they worked. And...if I ate anything off of my diet....signs of the yeast returned...(bloated/headaches/gas/fungus in my mouth,etc...). Die-Off is especially rough for me, so there is no doubt when it is happening. The Major Die off in me lasted for 90 days...and I kept having to repeat the procedure a few times, but it got easier after Round #1 ... I do not know if this is normal or what "normal" is.......... I commend you for hanging tough!
Julia...
 

Lotus97

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I'm taking extra Betaine HCL (in addition to what's in my digestive enzyme supplement) partially because it was recommended for people with adrenal problems, leaky gut, and also for a couple other things. I recently read that Betaine HCL was good for candida because the acidic environment killed the yeast/fungal parasites which was good news since I've been treating possible candida problems for many years now (although some people say it's good to be alkaline, but maybe this is different than pH in the GI tract). Then today I read that an acidic environment will kill probiotics as well. This about Sucralose (aka Splenda), but I assume the information applies to use of Betaine HCL as well

A study at Duke University found strong evidence that sucralose can reduce the amount of good bacteria in the gut by increasing the amount of acid in the lower part of the GI tract. Probiotics are the "good bacteria" that we all have in huge amounts in our digestive systems. These bacteria help digest our food and make it absorbable. Without the efficient actions of probiotics, we would not be able to efficiently absorb nutrients from the food we consume. Probiotic supplements are a popular and inexpensive means of maintaining and improving levels of good bacteria in the gut. We are advised to take a probiotic supplement on an empty stomach because it will pass through the stomach more quickly when it is taken that way. The goal is to move the bacteria from an acid environment, the stomach, to one that is less acid, the intestines. Good bacteria thrive in less acidic environments.

Sucralose - with its appended chloride groups - has been shown to increase the acidity of the entire GI tract (increased acidity means lower pH). When the pH is unbalanced like this, the good bacteria suffer. Even minimal amounts can increase acidity and damage good bacteria. To make matter worse, the changed pH levels persist for weeks after the sucralose is stopped.
I've been having loose bowels for the past month or two (around the time I started taking Betaine HCL), but before that I had chronic constipation for at least 2 years. This could be coincidence, but when I was on antibiotics earlier this year and also when I took a colloidal silver supplement (which also has antibacterial properties) I had diarrhea so I know killing probiotics can cause those problems for me. I'm also concerned about other "natural" antifungals which also can potentially kill probiotics.
 

Lotus97

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Has anyone had die-off from Pau D'Arco? I know it's recommended for Lyme and Candida, but I wasn't sure how it works specifically. I don't take it every day and it seems like the days I take it I feel worse. There's a lot going on with my health right now so I can't be sure it's causing it.
 

Lotus97

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I think it's worth pointing out that some people including Rich Vank and Dr. Cheney theorize that a large percentage of people with CFS have virus/infections. Many antifungals such as caprylic acid, oregano oil extract, garlic, and grapefruit seed extract have antibacterial properties too so die off might be from something else other than candida. I guess you could try Nystatin or Diflucan alone to see if those cause die off since I think those don't have any antibiotic properties. Also, with the antifungals that have antibacterial properties be aware that they will also kill probiotics. Some people recommend taking probiotics in the morning and antifungals in the evening. Others recommend alternating one week taking only antifungals and one week taking only probiotics.
 

Sushi

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....Also, with the antifungals that have antibacterial properties be aware that they will also kill probiotics. Some people recommend taking probiotics in the morning and antifungals in the evening. Others recommend alternating one week taking only antifungals and one week taking only probiotics.
Some ME/CFS specialists recommend taking probiotics in the evening, so maybe vice-versa--anti-fungals in the morning and probiotics in the evening.

Sushi
 

Lotus97

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Some ME/CFS specialists recommend taking probiotics in the evening, so maybe vice-versa--anti-fungals in the morning and probiotics in the evening.

Sushi
Do you know what the reason is for that? I take probiotics first thing in the morning because that's when my digestive power is the weakest so the probiotics won't be destroyed by my stomach acid. I guess if your probiotics are enteric coated or you take them on an empty stomach it won't matter when you take them.