This suggests (
suggests) that maybe there's something other than histamines at play.
My understanding about Daosin is that it works directly in conjunction with foods: take one before eating. So that's only going to work if food is the culprit.
A bit of mast cell info, hopefully not TMI! [Bold is my additions, from my notebook] Sorry about the long list in the symptoms quote, the formatting was originally in columns. This might help you to think beyond the itch, to see if mast cells might be involved.
Dr Janice Joneja Histamine Intolerance Interview Transcript http://lowhistaminechef.com/
Could you please give us an idea of how histamine intolerance, mast cell activation and mastocytosis are different; if in fact they are?
Well, actually,
it’s all the same thing, because histamine is made, synthesized and stored within mast cells – so the mast cells are the focus of where the histamine comes from. So if, for example in a condition such as mastocytosis, we have an excess of mast cells, which, of course, means we have an excess of
stored histamine. So anything that is going to trigger the release of that histamine, is going to lead to an excess of histamine;
it’s not an allergic reaction – it is mast cells that are in excess, therefore histamine is going to be in excess, and anything that could reduce that histamine is going to be effective to a certain degree in reducing the symptoms that result from the release of histamine from the mast cells. So
that’s the important factor in mastocytosis and similar conditions where there’s just too much histamine stored and then when it’s released, of course we have far too much of it so that is definitely a histamine associated condition which we could call histamine excess – not really histamine sensitivity in its sense of being due to an enzyme deficiency, but it’s definitely an excess of histamine.
....we do not have any definitive tests either for DAO function or histamine levels. What I mean here is that histamine fluctuates in the body constantly. We require histamine for brain function, it’s a neurotransmitter. We require histamine for digestion because it’s the trigger for the release of gastric acid, which is always released when we start to eat – it’s the first stage of breakdown of protein in the stomach, for example – and we require it constantly for protection because histamine is one of the ways the body fights infection or any adverse event in the body because these events will result in inflammation as the result of histamine release.....so a normal level would be different when, for example, a plasma sample is taken at different times during the day – different events during the day – and then in addition we might be able to measure DAO in blood, but it does not translate – never will translate – until we’ve got far better research into what is the importance of that level in clinical outcome....So, there we are in the beginning of this being recognised as a separate entity from allergy, but the research does not tell us exactly what this is going to translate to in a particular individual....we’re
so used to medical tests – that’s our problem – so used to being told that we have to have a test for every condition that we see. The test results will then determine the diagnosis, the diagnosis determines therapy and so on and so forth.. That’s what we call the
medical paradigm. And, unfortunately it can not be applied either to histamine sensitivity or to allergy....because these tests are often indicative of fluctuating histamine levels, which can be high in certain situations and so on, and maybe low Diamine Oxidase although we can not specify what
low Diamine Oxidase is because we don’t have an normal level to compare it with...we can then perhaps introduce the idea of supplementing Diamine Oxidase as see if that will then help the problem.
But in most cases if it is histamine sensitivity, we’ll reduce the external forces of histamine – and that’s all we can do. Then, in itself, it becomes both a diagnosis and a therapy.
Now, the most important thing about histamine intolerance is that – and this is the biggest difference between histamine intolerance and allergy –
histamine intolerance is a dose related condition, which means that when you exceed your own limited tolerance, then you are going to show symptoms. So, to make this very simple, I give the analogy of filling up a bucket with water. We start at the bottom of the bucket with
essential histamine – that will be histamine that our body makes for brain function, digestive function, protection – so we’ve always got a little bit of water in the bucket to begin with. Now if a person has an allergy, for example during the pollen season, so there are respiratory allergies, such as hay fever, they’re releasing more histamine, so that adds more water to the bucket. And then they may be consuming – well, they may even have an allergy to cats or dogs or something, so animal dander can add a bit more to the bucket. Then, they may be eating a high histamine diet: tomatoes -for example, cheese, a glass of wine, a pizza with pepperoni – each of these are adding on to the water that is already in the bucket. Some of these are already quite high and adding more and more and more – when that total level reaches the top of the bucket, it overflows – that’s when symptoms occur, because that’s exceeded the enzymes in the body’s ability to break down the excess and excrete it through the kidneys. So then we see the symptoms...
Multiple sources, but as long as we understand each of the sources, we can control it. What we’re doing is reducing that level that is above the level in the bucket that we require. So anything on top of that – especially in the diet – we’re going to bring down that level in the bucket. So, let’s look at where this histamine is coming from outside the body. This is what we call extrinsic histamine. So, as you said, we’ve got a variety of different foods – let’s look at the food themselves: where is the histamine coming from? Well, in fish, for example, you buy fresh fish, freshly caught and gutted, frozen fish: fish don’t have any histamine. But, if they are not processed adequately, if they are not frozen immediately after they are caught and gutted, then the bacteria in the gut of the fish start to break down protein. The protein of the flesh contains many amino acids, the most important of which (in our discussion) is histadine. Histadine is converted to histamine by histadine decarboxylase which is a specific enzyme which these bacteria make. This enzyme converts the histadine into histamine and the longer the fish is hanging around unprocessed and un-gutted – the level of the histamine rises and bacteria multiply every twenty minutes. So that histamine could rise pretty rapidly. So there’s the source from the fish. We can eat fish if we have an excess of histamine but it has to be freshly caught, gutted immediately or frozen immediately....T
he other caveat with canned fish – some of it is sulphited, as sulphites release histamine (by a different process) – anything sulphited must be avoided because that will release histamine. Shellfish, we don’t gut – so obviously, the shellfish are out because the bacteria in the gut of the shellfish do a similar thing – converting histadine to histamine and that’s always a potential source of histamine, so avoid shellfish – that’s the simplest thing....eggs – in themselves don’t contain histamine, but
egg whites are known to be a histamine-releaser. So anything with excess egg whites – mouse, or merengue or baked alaska, for example, where the egg whites are predominant, are not a good food for histamine. A small amount of egg in a baked product doesn’t seem to be a problem at all.
some fruits (particularly) need histamine for ripening. Particularly the red ones. So things like tomatoes, cherries even red beans, for some obscure reason that I can’t find in the research literature, but I’m hoping someone will look at this more closely, they need histamine for the ripening process...Berries tend to be high in benzoates. Natural benzoates. Benzoates release histamine. And so certain berries are higher in benzoates and so release more histamine. And the berries that I see that are really problematic tend to be strawberries, raspberries, cranberries....cinnamon, it has a very high level of benzoates – so again we’ve got this factor where histamine is released as a result of the benzoates in the cinnamon. And cinnamon in any spice mixture such as curry spice mixture, chilli spice mixture – and then there are certain herbs which release histamine. Thyme, for example, releases histamine....Blueberries: these are berries, some of them will have benzoates, some of them don’t – it depends on the species, the ripeness and all sorts of things.
Blueberries are low on the berries list, but all berries do have certain level of benzoate that we do have to be a little bit cautious about. So these are usually perfectly okay – the level, the association with histamine is not really significant. Of the list you gave me –
cacao: that is a problem with histamine, that one I wouldn’t include. You see the problem is that it’s very difficult to associate a reaction with a specific food. You
can do it with allergy, of course, because you eat the food – you have an allergy [reaction], there it is, clear and simple. But if you are on a low histamine diet already, the level of the water in your bucket is pretty low, it’s below your limit of tolerance. And so you can eat certain histamine related foods – particularly if they’re not very high in histamine or benzoate, you’re not filling up your bucket with water, so in this situation you can consume these more beneficial foods and still not fill up your bucket with water. As long as you are not consuming a lot of other high histamine foods. And that’s the beauty of histamine intolerance without allergy is that you do have this more liberal type of diet because until you reach and exceed your own limit of tolerance you are safe.
