Herpes Veridai protocol (5-ar inhibitors)

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

the delicate hormonal system can be easily disrupted, and this is my concern also.

I hear 'ya .....

 

[seamyb]

This as we all know is an illness concocted in hell by a mad man

I say this jokingly, but so is the protocol.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I do worry if this could work for women. I think the hormone balance may well be a sticking point. Not sure how you easily get past it

I only know of @Hoosierfans who's female who's done it so far.

 

[seamyb]

I do worry if this could work for women. I think the hormone balance may well be a sticking point. Not sure how you easily get past it

I only know of @Hoosierfans who's female who's done it so far.

Has anybody on PR reported it to have cured their CFS?

 

[joshua.leisk]

I am wondering about the effect on women also. Hormones are often seriously unbalanced in females in this disease.
Secondly, I may be suffering concentration issues, but it isn't clear to me which are all the substances in the protocol that are androgen inhibitors. Should we perhaps make a list? Thanks to everyone exploring this protocol.

I would like to hear from more severe women doing it.

Hi all, I’ve made some comments around all of this here - https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...toimmune-spectrum-disorder.83371/post-2344478

 

[joshua.leisk]

I say this jokingly, but so is the protocol.

I thought it best to really get into the mind of my adversary.

Biology is complicated - there are usually 5 backup pathways for every pathway. The viral alterations have been the same - I found a number of loops that influence GDH, for example.

Maybe check out the main thread? There are a couple of PR people who started and are now doing very well. There are more on the PR discord.

People have also made organic discoveries about why the protocol has specific components included and what may happen when you deviate from them. Every aspect of the protocol has a described purpose / intention and is being refined to cover co-infections like giardia, Lyme, T.gondii, mycotoxins, etc.

“Send a madman to catch a madman..”

 

[joshua.leisk]

I hear 'ya .....

It’s designed for both sexes. The intention is for PCOS, endometriosis, etc to benefit from the same balance being restored.

 

[Hoosierfans]

only know of @Hoosierfans who's female who's done it so far.

Sorry, what have I done???

 

[godlovesatrier]

The protocol Josh wrote @Hoosierfans

 

[mariovitali]

I am really happy to see this thread as well.

Long story short, i got ME after taking Finasteride , a 5AR inhibitor. The crashes began when i stopped Finasteride and therefore, when 5AR was re-introduced to my body.

During my numerous trials with various supplements / compounds i found that everything that was a 5AR inhibitor would stop my ME symptoms but would supress my libido. The moment i would stop taking a 5AR, ME symptoms would begin.

I came also to find new androgen inhibitors, i had no idea about. One of them could be peppermint :

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17310494/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15302514/


Speaking for me, whenever i would take a 5AR inhibitor there was a surge of testosterone in the beginning but then things would get bad so this was not a viable solution.

In any case , i am really happy we walk down this path, because we may be finding a larger pattern for many patients and @joshua.leisk protocol could be a possible solution to balance things.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Ah peppermint! I took some last night actually. Really calmed me down before sleep. In thinking I might drink this in the evening to get me ready for bed ha! As I'm still a bit overly wired in the evenings thanks @mariovitali

 

[godlovesatrier]

Heh. It's happened to me too but not for ages.

Well we will find out Hopefully not my summary post.

As for the inhibitors I haven't noticed much of a bad effect. Hair is falling out far less than it was actually. Make of that what you will

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Make of that what you will

Nothing works the same for all of us. Or even most of us. Or sometimes, even a handful of us.

It's one of the most confusing, frustrating, irritating, maddening things about this crass little carnival-mirrored torture chamber of an illness ....

 

[godlovesatrier]

It's one of the most confusing, frustrating, irritating, maddening things about this creepy little carnival-mirrored torture chamber of an illness ....

Absolutely is, that's what makes its so infuriating to have.

 

[Jyoti]

Moderator Note: The thread https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-spectrum-disorder.83371/page-35#post-2344691 has been closed. We know a lot of you are wondering why. Phoenix Rising offers a forum for the exchange of our knowledge and experience in dealing with ME/CFS, but it is not a platform for conducting medical research. Joshua Leisk, who has shared with us his protocol, has ended up doing more than sharing his own experience; a de facto clinical trial of his protocol is being conducted. Regrettably, this does not fall within the scope of Phoenix Rising's mission. Members are reminded that our rules prohibit the soliciting or giving of medical advice. So anyone seeking that will have to contact the researcher/healthcare provider outside of this website. Joshua's website is: www.thinkingmuscle.com For now, this thread will remain open though members are cautioned that in accordance with Forum Rules, discussion of moderation conducted here will be removed.

 

[Dubitat]

I suggest that anyone considering the protocol read some of the prior criticisms online. Joshua has been promoting his protocol and techniques since March on various forums.

The S4me.info thread has some very polite and thoughtful criticisms: https://www.s4me.info/threads/the-true-nature-of-an-autoimmune-disease-leisk-and-nocon-2021.19583/

The Reddit threads have been locked due to concerns by members, but more valid concerns have been raised in the comments:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cfs/comments/mti1sx

It should be noted that Joshua is not a clinical researcher, nor is he trained or experience in any matters relating to medicine or clinical research. He is a former IT worker turned fitness trainer and consultant, as you can see from his website linked above. He admits he is in the process of commercializing his custom supplement blend to market to patients with a wide range of diseases, from CFS to Multiple Sclerosis to Schizophrenia and even cancer.

Phoenix Rising was the last online CFS forum I'm aware of that allowed his claims to continue uncontested. Several of us have tried to sound the alarm that his papers are pseudo-scientific at best and the claims he makes do not follow from the papers he cites.

He has been uploading documents to Research Gate because they do not require identification or verification. Anyone can create and upload documents to that website and claim they are "papers" but they are nothing like the typical journal articles or published research we normally see. These should be treated similarly to a blog post, not journal papers.

He has also been evolving the protocol faster than could possibly be tested in patients. He has posted at least 3 major revisions to the protocol in the past few months. It should concern everyone that CFS has evaded a cure after decades of professional research, yet a former IT worker turned fitness consultant claims to have cured the disease 3 different ways after only a few months of research. Worse, he claims his treatments work on many unrelated diseases.

There have already been many valid criticisms of his work posted on multiple websites, including PR. I know some want to believe that he has cured CFS, but given that his protocols have been shared since March with no one publicly reaping the same benefits he claims his private consulting clients see (e.g. remission) I hope it's obvious that this is not the cure he claims.

His intentions to commercialize the treatment are a conflict of interest in accepting any criticisms or negative public reports about the efficacy of his treatment. I would ask that anyone engaging with him please keep as much of the conversation in public as possible.

 

[jump44]

It’s a well thought out post but at the same time- are we all adults here or just in name only? I believe people should take responsibility for themselves as much as possible - therefore I’m sure everyone experimenting knows this is totally untested theory and are willing to take the chance or risk or whatever word you want to use , some of us do not feel like waiting twenty years for a potential treatment and the “normal” way of doing things hasn’t just in fact gotten many of us nowhere but has harmed many repeatedly.

I for one am well aware josh isn’t a regular doctor or scientist but to me that’s a good thing. Im also not naive and do realize he’s made a few rapid changes to the protocol that couldn’t have possibly been tested the way he says. I’ve also seen benefit from some of the things he recommends- not a cure yet for sure but better than 90 percent of the “by the book” methodology I was exposed to,

jts unfortunate we live in a culture where open mindedness is looked at in fear and also where apparently everyone needs their hand held and be reminded by other …”adults” what’s good or not good for them. I am aware pr also has to protect itself so I can see that angle too. Anyways just my 2 cents for whatever that’s worth.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I suggest that anyone considering the protocol read some of the prior criticisms online. Joshua has been promoting his protocol and techniques since March on various forums.

The S4me.info thread has some very polite and thoughtful criticisms: https://www.s4me.info/threads/the-true-nature-of-an-autoimmune-disease-leisk-and-nocon-2021.19583/

The Reddit threads have been locked due to concerns by members, but more valid concerns have been raised in the comments:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cfs/comments/mti1sx

It should be noted that Joshua is not a clinical researcher, nor is he trained or experience in any matters relating to medicine or clinical research. He is a former IT worker turned fitness trainer and consultant, as you can see from his website linked above. He admits he is in the process of commercializing his custom supplement blend to market to patients with a wide range of diseases, from CFS to Multiple Sclerosis to Schizophrenia and even cancer.

Phoenix Rising was the last online CFS forum I'm aware of that allowed his claims to continue uncontested. Several of us have tried to sound the alarm that his papers are pseudo-scientific at best and the claims he makes do not follow from the papers he cites.

He has been uploading documents to Research Gate because they do not require identification or verification. Anyone can create and upload documents to that website and claim they are "papers" but they are nothing like the typical journal articles or published research we normally see. These should be treated similarly to a blog post, not journal papers.

He has also been evolving the protocol faster than could possibly be tested in patients. He has posted at least 3 major revisions to the protocol in the past few months. It should concern everyone that CFS has evaded a cure after decades of professional research, yet a former IT worker turned fitness consultant claims to have cured the disease 3 different ways after only a few months of research. Worse, he claims his treatments work on many unrelated diseases.

There have already been many valid criticisms of his work posted on multiple websites, including PR. I know some want to believe that he has cured CFS, but given that his protocols have been shared since March with no one publicly reaping the same benefits he claims his private consulting clients see (e.g. remission) I hope it's obvious that this is not the cure he claims.

His intentions to commercialize the treatment are a conflict of interest in accepting any criticisms or negative public reports about the efficacy of his treatment. I would ask that anyone engaging with him please keep as much of the conversation in public as possible.

You can criticise everything. Just like Abilify in the beginning. And improvements have been reported by members who follow his protocol, also on PR. He never claimed to be a trained doctor btw

 

[jump44]

Massive medical experimentation on “healthy” people via big pharma=Amazing miracle of medical “science”. Suffering chronically ill people experimenting to help themselves= irresponsible.

 

[Dubitat]

It’s a well thought out post but at the same time- are we all adults here or just in name only? I believe people should take responsibility for themselves as much as possible - therefore I’m sure everyone experimenting knows this is totally untested theory and are willing to take the chance or risk or whatever word you want to use ,

The purpose of these forums is to share information. It's only fair to share links to previous honest discussions about the protocol.

I felt compelled to post because many have been asking where to start with his model, only to be given links to 3 papers totaling over 100 pages and asked to read them from the beginning. Many of us have read his papers and found the claims to be inconsistent or even incorrect.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect every person reading these threads to read all 100 pages and check citations. We should share others' findings about the documents to help prevent others from wasting valuable energy repeating the same exploration.

You can criticise everything. Just like Abilify in the beginning. And improvements have been reported by members who follow his protocol, also on PR. He never claimed to be a trained doctor btw

He has tried to promote his protocol in Reddit's /r/AskDocs, which is a subreddit that only allows doctors to answer questions. He was quickly called out by the moderators and actual doctors in the thread who quickly debunked his theories and removed several of his posts:

https://imgur.com/EiTrCYE

He may not be claiming to be a doctor here, but he has tried to allude to clinical trials that do not exist, among other claims.

Massive medical experimentation on “healthy” people via big pharma=Amazing miracle of medical “science”. Suffering chronically ill people experimenting to help themselves= irresponsible.

Informed self-experimentation is fine. My goal is to inform everyone about existing discussion and concerns about his theories from those of us who have previously read his papers and investigated his claims.