I am sure you all know already about the scary case involving Karina Hansen in Denmark, forcibly confined and treated in a psychiatric institution when she has no diagnosis of a mental illness -- just a diagnosis of ME. I cannot imagine the sense of trauma and isolation she is experiencing. Please please go to the Facebook page "Justice for Karina Hansen" -- each day there is a new activity posted there that you can do to help her get released. She's been held now for over 4 months, and her family has not been allowed to visit her!! This is a terrible precedent we do not want to see repeated anywhere else or to anyone else in any country.
Help for Karina Hansen!!
- Thread starter tamsyn
- Start date
justinreilly
Senior Member
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- 2,498
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- NYC (& RI)
Countrygirl
Senior Member
- Messages
- 5,638
- Location
- UK
Note to those in the UK: Dr Peter White is now involved in what can only be described by anyone who has even just a basic understanding of this devastating disease as abusive treatment of this vulnerable young woman. Disgraceful!.
*** New Statement from Karina Hansen's Parents***
We were given this statement by Karina Hansen's parents to release on our page:
We can not get permission to see Karina and ask if she wants to come home. We have been told Karina says no to visitors - which she also did at home because it is a big strain on her health, and especially now that she is forced to be active all day.
Nils Balle Christensen has asked a relative of Karina to visit her on several occasions. This is a relative that has not seen Karina in the years she was bedbound at home, nor has she spoken to Karina's parents. She therefore has no knowledge about Karina's condition prior to the incarceration, and she has not had any contact with Karina's immediate family after Karina was incarcerated.
The fact that ME patients can look fine, in spite of being severely ill, is important to know before judging how an ME patient is doing.
We have been told by Chief Physician Merete Stubkjær that this relatives visits to Karina have been very short, and that Karina have not been able to speak to her. She has been encouraged by the staff to come visit, and Karina has NOT been asked if she wants visitors.
if you don't agree with and support the treatment Karina have been put under by the psychiatrist in charge of treatment, Nils Balle Christensen, you will not have access to see Karina.
Physician Jens Gyring has told us that Karina has asked to go home several times. He says she is incarcerated and therefore can not decide for herself if she wants to be there or not. We do not know how often Karina has asked to come home, and we do not know what explanation they have given her as to why she cannot.
Chief Physician Merete Stubkjær says that Karina is not incarcerated and never has been. She says Karina can just walk out if she wants to, because the door is not locked. Which is a rather grotesque thing to say, as she knows that is impossible for Karina, who is unable to walk.
Karina has been given the diagnosis M.E. G93.3 by several doctors, amongst them a Danish and a Norwegian ME-specialist. The Danish specialist has seen Karina many times, and the Norwegian doctor has also seen her.
There are foreign experts that have offered to come and see Karina at Hammel, but psychiatrist Nils Balle Christensen is not allowing any ME experts access to Karina. Nor does he allow that the recommended tests for ME patients be taken and analyzed abroad.
Psychiatrist Nils Balle Christensen and Merete Stubkjær thinks that Karina may have had ME, but that it has passed and she now has a different disease. Nils Balle Christensen has reached this conclusion together with some other psychiatrists. Some of these are from England, and one of them is named Peter White.
The psychiatric diagnosis they have given Karina is not recognized by the World Health Organization.
We at one point, asked Nils Balle Christensen to contact the Norwegian ME specialist, because it is obvious he does not know much about ME, the answer we got was that this was not possible because she (the specialist) had lost her medical authorization. This is not true.
Physician Jens Gyring has told us that they have seen all the symptoms we told them Karina had, at Hammel, but that they are of a psychiatric nature and that she does not have ME. At the same time, he's changing between saying he has much knowledge about ME, to admit that he does not have any knowledge about ME.
Psychiatrist Nils Balle Christensen has previously said that it does not matter what diagnosis Karina has that she should be active and rehabilitated, and be treated with anti-depressants rather than just lying in bed.
The rehabilitation consists of daily taking Karina's bed outside, for some fresh air and daylight. Karina is light-sensitive and protects her eyes by pulling the covers over her head, but the staff says there is progress, and that Karina can now handle from five to ten minutes before protecting herself.
It happens regularly that there is a deterioration in Karina's condition, and the staff admits that this happens when they push her too hard.
After almost 9 months of hospitalization, with daily rehabilitation, Karina is still not able to walk.
Psychiatrist Nils Balle Christensen has declared Karina incompetent in any matters regarding her treatment. She is deprived the right to trust what she feels in her body.
What he doesn't know, is obviously not worth knowing. Karina has become an involuntary guinea pig for psychiatry.
We would also like to inform you that it was Karina's choice to go public with this story.
In the month of May last year, when the Danish Board of Health (Sundhetsstyrelsen) tried to incarcerate Karina for the first time, Karina expressed a wish herself that we should contact the media, hoping to stop this abuse, and get some approval and recognition of the horrible disease that Myalgic Encephalomyelitis is. Karina chose the pictures given to the public, herself.
We are very grateful for all the support and backing we are receiving from all over the world.
Thank you so much for that from Karina's parents and siblings
*** New Statement from Karina Hansen's Parents***
We were given this statement by Karina Hansen's parents to release on our page:
We can not get permission to see Karina and ask if she wants to come home. We have been told Karina says no to visitors - which she also did at home because it is a big strain on her health, and especially now that she is forced to be active all day.
Nils Balle Christensen has asked a relative of Karina to visit her on several occasions. This is a relative that has not seen Karina in the years she was bedbound at home, nor has she spoken to Karina's parents. She therefore has no knowledge about Karina's condition prior to the incarceration, and she has not had any contact with Karina's immediate family after Karina was incarcerated.
The fact that ME patients can look fine, in spite of being severely ill, is important to know before judging how an ME patient is doing.
We have been told by Chief Physician Merete Stubkjær that this relatives visits to Karina have been very short, and that Karina have not been able to speak to her. She has been encouraged by the staff to come visit, and Karina has NOT been asked if she wants visitors.
if you don't agree with and support the treatment Karina have been put under by the psychiatrist in charge of treatment, Nils Balle Christensen, you will not have access to see Karina.
Physician Jens Gyring has told us that Karina has asked to go home several times. He says she is incarcerated and therefore can not decide for herself if she wants to be there or not. We do not know how often Karina has asked to come home, and we do not know what explanation they have given her as to why she cannot.
Chief Physician Merete Stubkjær says that Karina is not incarcerated and never has been. She says Karina can just walk out if she wants to, because the door is not locked. Which is a rather grotesque thing to say, as she knows that is impossible for Karina, who is unable to walk.
Karina has been given the diagnosis M.E. G93.3 by several doctors, amongst them a Danish and a Norwegian ME-specialist. The Danish specialist has seen Karina many times, and the Norwegian doctor has also seen her.
There are foreign experts that have offered to come and see Karina at Hammel, but psychiatrist Nils Balle Christensen is not allowing any ME experts access to Karina. Nor does he allow that the recommended tests for ME patients be taken and analyzed abroad.
Psychiatrist Nils Balle Christensen and Merete Stubkjær thinks that Karina may have had ME, but that it has passed and she now has a different disease. Nils Balle Christensen has reached this conclusion together with some other psychiatrists. Some of these are from England, and one of them is named Peter White.
The psychiatric diagnosis they have given Karina is not recognized by the World Health Organization.
We at one point, asked Nils Balle Christensen to contact the Norwegian ME specialist, because it is obvious he does not know much about ME, the answer we got was that this was not possible because she (the specialist) had lost her medical authorization. This is not true.
Physician Jens Gyring has told us that they have seen all the symptoms we told them Karina had, at Hammel, but that they are of a psychiatric nature and that she does not have ME. At the same time, he's changing between saying he has much knowledge about ME, to admit that he does not have any knowledge about ME.
Psychiatrist Nils Balle Christensen has previously said that it does not matter what diagnosis Karina has that she should be active and rehabilitated, and be treated with anti-depressants rather than just lying in bed.
The rehabilitation consists of daily taking Karina's bed outside, for some fresh air and daylight. Karina is light-sensitive and protects her eyes by pulling the covers over her head, but the staff says there is progress, and that Karina can now handle from five to ten minutes before protecting herself.
It happens regularly that there is a deterioration in Karina's condition, and the staff admits that this happens when they push her too hard.
After almost 9 months of hospitalization, with daily rehabilitation, Karina is still not able to walk.
Psychiatrist Nils Balle Christensen has declared Karina incompetent in any matters regarding her treatment. She is deprived the right to trust what she feels in her body.
What he doesn't know, is obviously not worth knowing. Karina has become an involuntary guinea pig for psychiatry.
We would also like to inform you that it was Karina's choice to go public with this story.
In the month of May last year, when the Danish Board of Health (Sundhetsstyrelsen) tried to incarcerate Karina for the first time, Karina expressed a wish herself that we should contact the media, hoping to stop this abuse, and get some approval and recognition of the horrible disease that Myalgic Encephalomyelitis is. Karina chose the pictures given to the public, herself.
We are very grateful for all the support and backing we are receiving from all over the world.
Thank you so much for that from Karina's parents and siblings
Has anyone tried to contact Danish daily papers about Karina´s situation if she or her family allows to? It sounds strange to me that there should be no legal ways to go further with her case. Is there anyone in this forum that is from Denmark? Maybe it would be possible to contact the biggest Swedish daily paper in the south, close to Denmark. We live in small countries where the papers are very powerful if they decide to shed light over a case.
The chairman for the Swedish ME advocate organization lives in Malmoe, a city very close to Copenhagen the capital of Denmark, and the daily paper in Malmoe has published knowledgable articles about ME/CFS thanks to the chairman. Just some thoughts...
The chairman for the Swedish ME advocate organization lives in Malmoe, a city very close to Copenhagen the capital of Denmark, and the daily paper in Malmoe has published knowledgable articles about ME/CFS thanks to the chairman. Just some thoughts...
akrasia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 215
Tate Mitchell makes an important observation on sleep deprivation.
Note: Latest updates on Karina Hansen. Based on personal experience of
needing complete silence and pitch black to sleep (to the point of
sometimes needing to wear earmuffs over earplugs and completely
darkening my windows), I would imagine it is entirely likely that
Karina might be suffering from severe sleep depravation since it seems
unlikely, based on the information provided thus far, that the center
where she is being held would accommodate darkening her room,
providing her with earplugs, limiting noise around her, etc. In fact
it seems like they are hell bent on doing the exact opposite and as a
result Karina very well might be sleep deprived to the point of
incoherence and might have become so shortly after being abducted by
the clinic almost a year ago now.
Collection of Karina Hansen updates from May 1, 2012 to Jan. 16, 2014-
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ay24rlb8brbwbbj/Karina Hansen archive 1-16-14.docx
-------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.facebook.com/JusticeForKarinaHansen
1/15/14
****NEW UPDATE ON ATTEMPTED CHRISTMAS VISIT****
On December 23rd 2013, Karina's father Per Hansen went to see his
daughter at Hammel Neurocenter. As previously mentioned, he had asked
permission from Karina's guardian to be allowed to see his daughter.
He had received no response by the time he went to see her. As
expected, a nurse went in to Karina to ask if she wanted a visit from
Per, and as expected the nurse came back and said Karina did not want
that. We do not know if Karina understood the question, or if she even
answered at all.
After Per had spoken with ward management and knew he was not going to
be able to see her, he had to leave her Christmas presents with the
staff which was greatly upsetting.
The response from the guardian came later that day, and he informed
the family that decisions to see Karina is done via professional
assessments, and that Karina should still be asked if she wants
visitors. And that the only changes to this procedure will be done by
consultations with the management at Hammel Neurocenter.
Nils Balle Christensen and Merethe Stubkjær completely refuses to let
family members themselves go in to ask Karina if she feels up to
having visitors for a brief moment, or ask if she wants to come home.
Christmas is celebrated on the evening of the 24th in Denmark, and it
was very hard for the family to not have Karina there, and that Per
was not allowed to see her the day before.
After some new updates received about Karina's condition, Karina’s
parents have come to the conclusion that Karina’s condition means she
would not have had anything positive out of seeing Per for a brief
moment, as she's unable to speak and most likely not have recognized
him.
-------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.facebook.com/JusticeForKarinaHansen
1/16/14
***** KARINA'S CURRENT CONDITION *****
When Per attempted to visit Karina, he spoke with the nurses and he
was told that Karina doesn't talk but only occasionally is able to
mutter one-syllable words. She could talk at home before the
incarceration and sometimes in several sentences at once.
If she sometimes felt too weak to speak, she was still able to make
herself understood.
We know that shortly after the incarceration, she was able to say she
didn’t want to be at Hammel, that she wanted to go home and that "they
were killing her".
She has been held at the center for 11 months. In that time she can
still not walk, she has gone from being able to mutter a few words
(like "you are killing me / I slår ihjel mig"), to not speaking but
would occasionally utter one-syllable words.
After reading the article about the young lady in England who has ME
(Jessica Taylor from The World of One Room), the family does not have
any doubts Karina's condition has deteriorated after the
incarceration. This is to the point that she does not recognize her
own family.
In the two times her sister Janni had visited Karina, there was no
recognition in Karina's eyes. Janni found this shocking and sad.
Karina has had some visits from an extended family member, whom she
did not see at all when she was sick for so long at home. These
visitations have occurred on the request of Nils Balle Christensen,
without asking Karina.
Karina may not have been able to speak during these visits.
The book "Severe ME" by Greg Crowhurst, describes the symptoms of severe ME:
‘To not understand, not be able to explain, not be able to formulate
words, not be able to perceive, not be able to express yourself,
speak, describe in full, identify the fears of the reality you're in,
in the shaky, noise reality in your central nervous system, which is
the cause of the extremely destructive chaos in your head and body’
This is exactly how we imagine it is for Karina.
Merete Stubkjær revealed on the meeting of 27th August, that they do
not know if Karina is thinking thoughts - common thoughts. At home,
Karina was thinking normally and was also able to express her
thoughts.
So has she deteriorated to the point where she can’t make sense of
anything that anyone is saying to her?
To the point that she doesn’t understand questions and can’t recognize faces?
Is her automatic response ‘no’ because that is all she can utter?
Or is it because she knows that a "no" could be a chance to escape one
of the many daily demands put upon her, that pushes her way over ME
limits and exacerbates her symptoms even more?
All involved members of the staff are listening to what Nils Balle
Christensen, Per Fink and the team think, believe and want to try out.
They believe Karina can persuade herself to get better. If this was
the case then she would have been out of the clinic months ago, to be
home with her loving family.
Karina's family and supporters are not giving up the fight to get
Karina back to where she belongs!
Note: Latest updates on Karina Hansen. Based on personal experience of
needing complete silence and pitch black to sleep (to the point of
sometimes needing to wear earmuffs over earplugs and completely
darkening my windows), I would imagine it is entirely likely that
Karina might be suffering from severe sleep depravation since it seems
unlikely, based on the information provided thus far, that the center
where she is being held would accommodate darkening her room,
providing her with earplugs, limiting noise around her, etc. In fact
it seems like they are hell bent on doing the exact opposite and as a
result Karina very well might be sleep deprived to the point of
incoherence and might have become so shortly after being abducted by
the clinic almost a year ago now.
Collection of Karina Hansen updates from May 1, 2012 to Jan. 16, 2014-
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ay24rlb8brbwbbj/Karina Hansen archive 1-16-14.docx
-------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.facebook.com/JusticeForKarinaHansen
1/15/14
****NEW UPDATE ON ATTEMPTED CHRISTMAS VISIT****
On December 23rd 2013, Karina's father Per Hansen went to see his
daughter at Hammel Neurocenter. As previously mentioned, he had asked
permission from Karina's guardian to be allowed to see his daughter.
He had received no response by the time he went to see her. As
expected, a nurse went in to Karina to ask if she wanted a visit from
Per, and as expected the nurse came back and said Karina did not want
that. We do not know if Karina understood the question, or if she even
answered at all.
After Per had spoken with ward management and knew he was not going to
be able to see her, he had to leave her Christmas presents with the
staff which was greatly upsetting.
The response from the guardian came later that day, and he informed
the family that decisions to see Karina is done via professional
assessments, and that Karina should still be asked if she wants
visitors. And that the only changes to this procedure will be done by
consultations with the management at Hammel Neurocenter.
Nils Balle Christensen and Merethe Stubkjær completely refuses to let
family members themselves go in to ask Karina if she feels up to
having visitors for a brief moment, or ask if she wants to come home.
Christmas is celebrated on the evening of the 24th in Denmark, and it
was very hard for the family to not have Karina there, and that Per
was not allowed to see her the day before.
After some new updates received about Karina's condition, Karina’s
parents have come to the conclusion that Karina’s condition means she
would not have had anything positive out of seeing Per for a brief
moment, as she's unable to speak and most likely not have recognized
him.
-------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.facebook.com/JusticeForKarinaHansen
1/16/14
***** KARINA'S CURRENT CONDITION *****
When Per attempted to visit Karina, he spoke with the nurses and he
was told that Karina doesn't talk but only occasionally is able to
mutter one-syllable words. She could talk at home before the
incarceration and sometimes in several sentences at once.
If she sometimes felt too weak to speak, she was still able to make
herself understood.
We know that shortly after the incarceration, she was able to say she
didn’t want to be at Hammel, that she wanted to go home and that "they
were killing her".
She has been held at the center for 11 months. In that time she can
still not walk, she has gone from being able to mutter a few words
(like "you are killing me / I slår ihjel mig"), to not speaking but
would occasionally utter one-syllable words.
After reading the article about the young lady in England who has ME
(Jessica Taylor from The World of One Room), the family does not have
any doubts Karina's condition has deteriorated after the
incarceration. This is to the point that she does not recognize her
own family.
In the two times her sister Janni had visited Karina, there was no
recognition in Karina's eyes. Janni found this shocking and sad.
Karina has had some visits from an extended family member, whom she
did not see at all when she was sick for so long at home. These
visitations have occurred on the request of Nils Balle Christensen,
without asking Karina.
Karina may not have been able to speak during these visits.
The book "Severe ME" by Greg Crowhurst, describes the symptoms of severe ME:
‘To not understand, not be able to explain, not be able to formulate
words, not be able to perceive, not be able to express yourself,
speak, describe in full, identify the fears of the reality you're in,
in the shaky, noise reality in your central nervous system, which is
the cause of the extremely destructive chaos in your head and body’
This is exactly how we imagine it is for Karina.
Merete Stubkjær revealed on the meeting of 27th August, that they do
not know if Karina is thinking thoughts - common thoughts. At home,
Karina was thinking normally and was also able to express her
thoughts.
So has she deteriorated to the point where she can’t make sense of
anything that anyone is saying to her?
To the point that she doesn’t understand questions and can’t recognize faces?
Is her automatic response ‘no’ because that is all she can utter?
Or is it because she knows that a "no" could be a chance to escape one
of the many daily demands put upon her, that pushes her way over ME
limits and exacerbates her symptoms even more?
All involved members of the staff are listening to what Nils Balle
Christensen, Per Fink and the team think, believe and want to try out.
They believe Karina can persuade herself to get better. If this was
the case then she would have been out of the clinic months ago, to be
home with her loving family.
Karina's family and supporters are not giving up the fight to get
Karina back to where she belongs!
Hell...Hath...No...Fury..
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,082
- Location
- UK
I've only just noticed this thread. Lying here feeling utterly disgusted, angry, frustrated and weepy about yet another hopeless situation inflicted on one of our own. I think for those of us who are quite severe this is our ultimate dread; the worst case scenario that can happen to any of us. Its a fate worse than death for us.
I struggle to even think of these psych's/psycho's as people. I could have cried when i read about placing her bed out in the daylight. Its like they do absolutely everything in their power to give you a mental illness by sheer, unrelenting torture so they can then say they were right all along.
Disgraceful and disgusting. Poor girl, she must be in a living hell on top of the one she was already in to begin with.
Every time we lie here, struggling to keep fighting, struggling to keep going and keep existing, we may be starved, alone, desperate, stories like this remind us, that no matter how bad we may be suffering things can always be worse. If the psych's had their way this would be the case for many of us i think
very, very sad.
I struggle to even think of these psych's/psycho's as people. I could have cried when i read about placing her bed out in the daylight. Its like they do absolutely everything in their power to give you a mental illness by sheer, unrelenting torture so they can then say they were right all along.
Disgraceful and disgusting. Poor girl, she must be in a living hell on top of the one she was already in to begin with.
Every time we lie here, struggling to keep fighting, struggling to keep going and keep existing, we may be starved, alone, desperate, stories like this remind us, that no matter how bad we may be suffering things can always be worse. If the psych's had their way this would be the case for many of us i think
very, very sad.This man and his team are a band of sick, sadistic rogues. It is horrifying to think what is happening to her, or the wretched helplessness and fury her family must be feeling. I am continually rendered speechless by the desire one human being can have to dominate and torment another.
This must stop now.
This must stop now.
taniaaust1
Senior Member
- Messages
- 13,054
- Location
- Sth Australia
It always distresses me a lot to read of these cases (Im crying after reading this). This is human rights abuse of ME cases and it would be good if we can get one of the big human rights organisations involved over ME cases being treated in such a way.
IF they had treated her right in hospital.. that being.. dark room, no noise, little movement around her as possible, drip feed her, no harmful drugs (they probably have her dopped out of her mind) etc .. give her a chance to heal. Maybe she would be able to walk by now.
All I can say is that NO-ONE knows what is going throu Katrinas brain right now.. she may well get very brief flashes of recognition even if she isnt able to communicate or focus her eyes etc or show it. They should not assume this isnt happening.
I have times when I cant communicate at all.. I had one of those incidences again only a few weeks ago when I lost all ability to be able to speak for a short time and all I could issue out is a string of nonsense words which didnt even make any sense to me (it was like as if someone else was babbling). My brain is often doing more thinking then what Im able to show at the time... like my brain is in some place but my body isnt connected right to it, my mouth isnt always connected to it right, my body and its movements arent always connected to it right.
Other times I can seem completely out of it.. but a part of me is still there.. slightly aware of my environment etc.
I strongly uggest to people (and hope her parents have seen this) to watch the DVD called "Awakenings" based on true story of patients who were victims of an encephalitis epidemic many years ago and were catatonic but were revived for a short time by a drug to the point of being able to be able to function normally for a short time and shared how they had felt while catatonic etc http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099077/?ref_=fn_al_tt_7 .
I personally think extremely severe ME such as Karinas could well be similar to what those catatonic patients who's bodies had shut down were experiencing. (I related in many ways to those Awakenings patients when I watched that DVD..with coming out from extremely severe ME).
With extremely severe ME.. ones mind does shut down a lot.. it can get to the point in which one isnt noticing much at all anymore. In some ways I think when I was going comatose with ME for days at a time.. those times may of been easier on me then it is now (completely disconnected to the body much of the time.. one gets to the point where ones awareness is just existing). The worst thing I remembering looking back on those days was the lonilness I felt in the brief bouts I was conscious. (I used to often be only conscious 30mins out of every 24hrs. Like myself I believe Karina could improve if she was treated right and that certainly isnt what is happening to her right now!!!
They are hindering any progress she could make.
I wish Karina was allowed to have her parents just sit with her.. so she could know she wasnt alone.
anyway..if you have never seen the true story about the ones from the encephalitis epidemic.. please watch this movie.
Karina MUST NOT be given up on cause she is worst. She needs to be taken out of where she is now and either put into the hands of her parents with medical support (eg IV, feeding tube etc) or placed in hospital under the care of real ME specialists who understand the needs of ME people.
...............
"
Karina has become an involuntary guinea pig for psychiatry."
That is the case. She's become a guinea pig to Dr Peter White (one of the Wessely schoolers). This is a good example of how while they are preaching they see ME/CFS as being a real physical illness, that in reality they dont in fact view it to be so.
This in itself shows the abuse... this is the same as telling someone with 2 broken arms and 2 broken legs or a paralysed person that they agree to be in a place if they dont themselves leave.
Has Lwyellin King been made aware of all the above??? Maybe he could highlight this case of abuse?
IF they had treated her right in hospital.. that being.. dark room, no noise, little movement around her as possible, drip feed her, no harmful drugs (they probably have her dopped out of her mind) etc .. give her a chance to heal. Maybe she would be able to walk by now.
All I can say is that NO-ONE knows what is going throu Katrinas brain right now.. she may well get very brief flashes of recognition even if she isnt able to communicate or focus her eyes etc or show it. They should not assume this isnt happening.
I have times when I cant communicate at all.. I had one of those incidences again only a few weeks ago when I lost all ability to be able to speak for a short time and all I could issue out is a string of nonsense words which didnt even make any sense to me (it was like as if someone else was babbling). My brain is often doing more thinking then what Im able to show at the time... like my brain is in some place but my body isnt connected right to it, my mouth isnt always connected to it right, my body and its movements arent always connected to it right.
Other times I can seem completely out of it.. but a part of me is still there.. slightly aware of my environment etc.
I strongly uggest to people (and hope her parents have seen this) to watch the DVD called "Awakenings" based on true story of patients who were victims of an encephalitis epidemic many years ago and were catatonic but were revived for a short time by a drug to the point of being able to be able to function normally for a short time and shared how they had felt while catatonic etc http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099077/?ref_=fn_al_tt_7 .
I personally think extremely severe ME such as Karinas could well be similar to what those catatonic patients who's bodies had shut down were experiencing. (I related in many ways to those Awakenings patients when I watched that DVD..with coming out from extremely severe ME).
With extremely severe ME.. ones mind does shut down a lot.. it can get to the point in which one isnt noticing much at all anymore. In some ways I think when I was going comatose with ME for days at a time.. those times may of been easier on me then it is now (completely disconnected to the body much of the time.. one gets to the point where ones awareness is just existing). The worst thing I remembering looking back on those days was the lonilness I felt in the brief bouts I was conscious. (I used to often be only conscious 30mins out of every 24hrs. Like myself I believe Karina could improve if she was treated right and that certainly isnt what is happening to her right now!!!
They are hindering any progress she could make.
I wish Karina was allowed to have her parents just sit with her.. so she could know she wasnt alone.
anyway..if you have never seen the true story about the ones from the encephalitis epidemic.. please watch this movie.
Karina MUST NOT be given up on cause she is worst. She needs to be taken out of where she is now and either put into the hands of her parents with medical support (eg IV, feeding tube etc) or placed in hospital under the care of real ME specialists who understand the needs of ME people.
...............
"
Karina has become an involuntary guinea pig for psychiatry."
That is the case. She's become a guinea pig to Dr Peter White (one of the Wessely schoolers). This is a good example of how while they are preaching they see ME/CFS as being a real physical illness, that in reality they dont in fact view it to be so.
This in itself shows the abuse... this is the same as telling someone with 2 broken arms and 2 broken legs or a paralysed person that they agree to be in a place if they dont themselves leave.
Has Lwyellin King been made aware of all the above??? Maybe he could highlight this case of abuse?
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JT1024
Senior Member
- Messages
- 582
- Location
- Massachusetts
What has happened to Karina is an atrocity. I agree with Taniaaust1 that patients have awareness of reality despite being "comatose" or in an "altered mental state".
I've worked in healthcare for 30+ years and have witnesses this awareness with patients that I did not know as well as my own brother. Once you've experienced what I have, whether a stranger or a loved one, no one will be able to change your mind.
Since/before Karina was "imprisoned", other children/adolescents have been as well. Recently, a teenager from Connecticut was "released" after almost a year of being held against her and her parents will. I've included a link but it may not be the best link. http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/ju...ildrens-hospital-but-not-returned-to-parents/
There are cases of families and children around the world, including the US, that are suffering from the same treatment. Charmian Proskauer, the President of the The Massachusetts CFIDS/ME & FM Association, spoke about the children and adolescents suffering from the illness. Dr. Klimas and another person on the IOM committee commented or asked a question. Dr. Klimas was forthright in expressing her concern and her experience when a young patient and the patents endured the scrutiny of state services investigating whether the parents were in fact "creating" the illness (aka Munchausen by proxy).
So much going on.. it is very hard to grasp it all and retain even a minimal amount.
taniaaust1
I've worked in healthcare for 30+ years and have witnesses this awareness with patients that I did not know as well as my own brother. Once you've experienced what I have, whether a stranger or a loved one, no one will be able to change your mind.
Since/before Karina was "imprisoned", other children/adolescents have been as well. Recently, a teenager from Connecticut was "released" after almost a year of being held against her and her parents will. I've included a link but it may not be the best link. http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/ju...ildrens-hospital-but-not-returned-to-parents/
There are cases of families and children around the world, including the US, that are suffering from the same treatment. Charmian Proskauer, the President of the The Massachusetts CFIDS/ME & FM Association, spoke about the children and adolescents suffering from the illness. Dr. Klimas and another person on the IOM committee commented or asked a question. Dr. Klimas was forthright in expressing her concern and her experience when a young patient and the patents endured the scrutiny of state services investigating whether the parents were in fact "creating" the illness (aka Munchausen by proxy).
So much going on.. it is very hard to grasp it all and retain even a minimal amount.
taniaaust1
The assholes holding Karina must be the only people on the planet who think that a non-responsive person would get no benefit from being visited by loved ones. I don't buy it for one minute--they are playing games, and dangerous ones at that.
Everyone knows you go and sit by the comatose or the near-dying or even the despondent, and you read them letters from their friends, tell them stories, sit in silence holding their hand. My friend read her comatose sister letters from schoolmates every day despite a very poor prognosis (this was in the 1970s!) and when she awoke from the coma she said it was her awareness of that that kept her going.
WHether Karina is comatose or "able to walk out any time" (mm hmm) or anywhere in between what purpose does it serve to withhold love from her? These people ought to be prosecuted for all sorts of crimes. Shamed as well in the medical community, and in the tribunal of sheer humanity.
ETA: Oh and what kind if BS is this about her walking out any time she chooses, but the parents are not allowed to *enter*? Who do they think they're kidding?
Everyone knows you go and sit by the comatose or the near-dying or even the despondent, and you read them letters from their friends, tell them stories, sit in silence holding their hand. My friend read her comatose sister letters from schoolmates every day despite a very poor prognosis (this was in the 1970s!) and when she awoke from the coma she said it was her awareness of that that kept her going.
WHether Karina is comatose or "able to walk out any time" (mm hmm) or anywhere in between what purpose does it serve to withhold love from her? These people ought to be prosecuted for all sorts of crimes. Shamed as well in the medical community, and in the tribunal of sheer humanity.
ETA: Oh and what kind if BS is this about her walking out any time she chooses, but the parents are not allowed to *enter*? Who do they think they're kidding?
Little Bluestem
All Good Things Must Come to an End
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I am beginning to think we need safe-houses for people at risk for medical abuse.
Ren
.
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- 385
It seems that I read on the Justice for Karina facebook page that she was denied legal representation early on - when she could still speak - because the State said she was not mentally sound enough to give her consent for legal help.
Based on this, it might be wise for individuals with ME/CFS to establish a relationship with a lawyer as soon as possible, so that if/when State sadists decide to target you (and your loved ones) - there's already an established legal relationship with a particular lawyer.
Re safe houses, it seems that it would be (if it doesn't already exist to some degree) akin to an Underground Railroad to escape persecution for having an "unlawful illness". Truly the stuff of sci-fi and dystopian "fiction".
I don't have links handy*, but it's my impression that the Scandinavian States have a reputation for seizing children (though I know Karina is an adult), especially from people who they perceive as "different", and it seems that very brave and caring individuals from Russia and/or Poland have "kidnapped" Polish/Russian children seized by Scandinavian States in order to reunite these children with their families again in Russia/Poland.
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*Edit: For what it's worth... "Krysztof Rutkowski" -
http://www.thelocal.no/20111109/action-hero-rescues-kid-from-foster-care and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krzysztof_Rutkowski
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Please check out all the new information on Justice for Karina Hansen's facebook page and website. There is a new petition specifically to get her a second opinion. There is also a thunderclap to sign up for. On Feb12 Karina will have been held at Hammel for one year! She needs all of us to help her and her family get her the correct treatment. Here are some links to get you started. Thank you!
1. change.org link http://chn.ge/1itYO0i
2. thunderclap link: http://thndr.it/1nUTVRm
1. change.org link http://chn.ge/1itYO0i
2. thunderclap link: http://thndr.it/1nUTVRm