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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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Celery inhibits P450?! Man, so many "healthy" foods with not-so-healthy properties.
alice, I don't know.Asklipia, so supplementing with Modified Citrus Pectin may not be a good idea if excitotoxicity is a problem?
Guaranteed sleep no supplementation :Can you all give me suggestions that would be better to help me sleep as that seems to be my holding me back. Have had severe insomnia for over a year now. It has tamed down a little since I have started a methylation protocol, but nothing steady. This month I haven't slept decent in the last 12 nights.
Guaranteed sleep no supplementation :
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/bains-dérivatifs.15574/
Be well!!!!
FFP
Asklipia
Celery inhibits P450?! Man, so many "healthy" foods with not-so-healthy properties.
Interesting link on the effect of grapefruit on CYP3A4 :
"it was noted that the intestinal content of CYP3A4 fell by more than 50% after consumption of even a single glass of grapefruit juice. "
http://www.cpronline.in/PDF1/CPR 1(2), 2011, 210-218. (21).pdf
This is a good way of putting it. Even typing on the keyboard makes the tips of my fingers feel ultra sensitive. I need to wrap them into my hands every once and a while.with feelings of all my nerves being "exposed"
I used to think that using supplements with BioPerine was a good thing because it increased the absorption of all my other supplements. Now that I learn what a P450 inhibitor actually I'm not so sure. There is a long list of foods, supplements, and prescription drugs that inhibit P450 enzymes. There's even BioPerine in DIM supplements which are supposed to increase P450 enzymes.
So does inhibiting P450 enzymes increase exitoxicity? I don't think I can stop my prescription drugs right now, but I'll look into food and supplements.
Yeah, when looking up information on various prescription drugs it often tells you not to consume grapefruit or grapefruit juice. I was compiling a list of P450 inhibitors, but I stopped because it's hard to know to what degree they work.
I used to think that using supplements with BioPerine was a good thing because it increased the absorption of all my other supplements. Now that I learn what a P450 inhibitor actually I'm not so sure. There is a long list of foods, supplements, and prescription drugs that inhibit P450 enzymes. There's even BioPerine in DIM supplements which are supposed to increase P450 enzymes.
So does inhibiting P450 enzymes increase exitoxicity? I don't think I can stop my prescription drugs right now, but I'll look into food and supplements.
Yeah, when looking up information on various prescription drugs it often tells you not to consume grapefruit or grapefruit juice. I was compiling a list of P450 inhibitors, but I stopped because it's hard to know to what degree they work.
Yeah, methylation effects can stack over time so it might take a few days before you notice you've gone too far which is why it's good to start slow and add only one supplement at a time. Methylation and B12 increase ATP so maybe that's part of the reason why the ATP supplements are causing problems (?) I agree with what Rich said about it not being a good idea to "push through" exitoxicity. I found another post of Rich's where he talks about excitoxicity and overdriving the methylation cycle. Although some people need to take methylcobalamin as he points out in the last paragraph of his post, he does have some words of caution about it:When I take supps that give me energy, like b2, NAC, ATP, high doses of mb12, at varying points I run into symptoms that are often described as exitoxicity.
For me it starts as a day of feeling noticeably better, then a night of poor sleep. The next days are usually very uncomfortable, with feelings of all my nerves being "exposed" and an emotional anguish that is really hard to describe; it's like a build up of emotions with no reasons behind them. Sleep is nearly impossible and high doses of melatonin are needed. Usually 2-3 days of this is all I can handle and I have to drop which ever supp was causing it.
Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone has pushed through this and found benefit in doing so. Or is it just suffering for no benefit?
That's true. I was surprised how many supplements I was taking that turned out to be methyl donors. Thanks to greenshots for this list. I've also heard choline mentioned as a methyl donor.Hi;
Another possible cause of excito-toxicity could be excess methyl donors.
There are studies about this that are not fully conclusive, but I've felt toxic from taking high amounts of them.
Some methyl donors are easy to find, because they contain the word, methyl, in them. But others are harder to find.
If someone finds that they are sensitive to methyl groups, then I would suggest they not 'push through' with them, but reduce them.
Methione also increases SAMe levels. TMG and Betaine HCL (which functions the same as TMG which is sometimes called anhydrous betaine) also raise SAMe. Betaine HCL is used as a digestive enzyme so anyone taking those might want to check the ingredients in their digestive enzymes. As Rich said, TMG and SAMe can be useful for those with a shortage of methyl groups, but it seems for others there can be too much of a good thing.Lotus97;
Thanks for the list, Lotus, and greenshots. Methionine is a predominant methyl donor too. In an animal test, the researchers induced hypermethylation with large doses of methionine. Hypermethylation occurrs in cancer tumors.
Lately, I've felt like I just can't solve my own puzzle; so many things I take to reduce inflammation, seem to increase it.
( It's particularly frustrating when the research concludes that a substance is anti-inflammatory.)
At least I'm finding some more things that don't help. Some things will be reduced, some will need to be avoided.
Which supplements does she take? Is it all methylation type stuff or something else? This is great that it's helping so much.She stays 95% healed as long as she keeps up with supplements. 3 days without and depression/anxiety will kick in. A week or so of sporadic supplementation and the fatigue will hit hard....
Her sustained recovery has been miraculous. She isn't "cured" as she has to take the supplements. But, the symptoms are all but gone. A little acne, a little muscle cramping at night, a few moderate sleep issues. Getting complacent and missing dosages or getting tired of disolving b12 under tongue are the biggest battles....
Which supplements does she take? Is it all methylation type stuff or something else? This is great that it's helping so much.
Which supplements does she take? Is it all methylation type stuff or something else? This is great that it's helping so much.