Hair Mineral Testing

[Undisclosed]

If you look at her analysis here related to Sodium/Potassium levels in the hair, and her explanation of Copper related to hair analysis/nutrition you will see some distinct similarities.

I stated that her work seems to be based on the work of Dr Lawrence Wilson, that doesn't mean she adheres to his theories -- but the explanations of mineral ratios, deficits etc have to come from somewhere -- they seem to be rooted in the work of Dr Lawrence.

Some of Dog Person's comments regarding why we do things -- ask question, argue etc were stated as being the result of nutritional deficiency and poor balancing -- you can find these statements here and in the work of Dr Wilson. I did a search and I found some interesting similarities, I couldn't any other researcher who is so similar in the work.

All theory comes from somewhere. Dr Wilson seems to have been very pioneering in the work he has done in Hair Mineral Analysis, he might be the leader in this kind of work.

All research stems in some degree from other research. It's the nature of science.

I am hoping that Dog Person will point out to me why her statements regarding copper, Na/K, the relationship of mood/personality to nutritional deficiency is different from Dr Wilson's. Then I will say I was totally wrong. I am hoping she can point us to the research she uses to dispell my assumptions.

I was trying to be helpful.

 

[Ema]

To Everyone else (and DP included)--

I also need to find a source of electrolytes, that has a good mix including potassium, because I need both potassium and magnesium to manage my PVC's. I was drinking 4-6 packs of Emergen-C/day, but now that I see that it contains a mix of things that might interfere with B2, including folic acid, I feel like I should find another source. If someone has an idea about this, please let me know.

How about Nuun? I don't think it tastes the best but I don't like Gatorade-y type beverages anyway. It doesn't taste bad, just kind of watery.

 

[alex3619]

Alex, I consider myself open minded. I am not saying we should blindly accept data, only on the basis of it coming out of a RCT. We have to look closely at methodology, and results have to be reproducible.

There are problems with evidence based medicine, of that I agree. Zombie science, ghost writers, Kuhn's paradigms, aso. I never claimed it was perfect.

But how can we evaluate clinical experience in a meaningful way? I am interested in this, as I know very little about it. If it's just anecdotal evidence, relayed from doctors and patients, then we're in the same mess.

Maybe you could point me to some ressource, or we could discuss it elsewhere?

Hi adreno, assessing clinical evidence is something I have yet to investigate in depth. I intend to do so. This investigation of mine is not due to finish for two to five years: there is a LOT of information, and its only fair to review as much of it as I can.

There are two things that drove EBM as far as I can see so far. The first is simple mechanism-based reasoning failed and killed in many cases. There is a problem. Give a drug to fix the problem, without testing secondary consequences. Patients die. The cited case in a book I am reading is that of medication for treating heart arrhythmia. It is estimated to have killed far more than it helped. Fixing an isolated problem without understanding secondary consequences is a HUGE problem.

The book is: The Philosophy of Evidence-Based Medicine, by Jeremy Howick, BMJ Books, 2011.

This book is not my only source. I am slowly going through them all, or as many as I can find not behind a paywall, although my focus right now is mainly on how to develop a methodology to assess what I am reading. So my main reading is to update my knowledge of philosophy of science. I just finished reading The Retreat to Committment for example. A book which is a great overview of phil sci is: Philosophy of Science: The Central Issues.

The other problem is clinical evidence. Doctors were convinced of many many treatments that were proven not to work. They were wrong. Not in numbers. In HUGE numbers. Clinical epidemiology was designed to address this. Evidence based medicine grew out of Thatcher rationalization of government resources ... and health is government funded in the UK. Its managerial medicine. HMOs in the USA are probably suffering the same issues. It has largely replaced clinical epidemiology.

I do have more information, lots more, but I am not ready yet to discuss much of it. Over time I will be writing a good number of blogs on these issues.

Did you have something specific in mind when you mentioned Kuhn? Much of the material on EBM so far have not addressed Kuhnian philosophy in my reading, and I am interested in it.

Bye, Alex

PS I think that potassium-sodium balance is very important. I do not think its just about diet though. I think some kind of channelopathy is involved. There has to be a reason why half of us are potassium deficient and yet simple blood tests do not show it.

 

[Dreambirdie]

How about Nuun? I don't think it tastes the best but I don't like Gatorade-y type beverages anyway. It doesn't taste bad, just kind of watery.

Thanks for the suggestion, but some of the ingredients (bolded) would not work for me.

Active Ingredients level (mg)
Sodium (carbonates) 360.0
Potassium (bicarbonate) 100.0
Calcium (carbonate) 12.5
Magnesium (sulfate) 25.0
Vitamin C 37.5
Vitamin B2 500 mcg

Other Ingredients: citric acid, sorbitol, sodium carbonate, natural colors flavors, sodium bicarbonate, potassium bicarbonate, polyethylene glycol, magnesium sulfate, sodium benzoate, calcium carbonate, acesulfame potassium, riboflavin-5-phosphate.

 

[richvank]

[QUOTE
PS I think that potassium-sodium balance is very important. I do not think its just about diet though. I think some kind of channelopathy is involved. There has to be a reason why half of us are potassium deficient and yet simple blood tests do not show it.[/QUOTE]

Hi, Alex.

I think the problem is that the mito dysfunction lowers the rate of production of ATP, and that robs the sodium-potassium ATPase membrane ion pumps of their energy supply, so that they are not able to maintain intracellular potassium levels as high as normal, even though the blood serum potassium level might be fine.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Asklipia]

Dreambirdie, I have stopped buying electrolyte drinks long ago. I am sure there is always something I don't like in them. I just make my own. Very easy, very cheap, very safe.
It is nice to drink and not to have the nagging fear of ingesting a bunch of stuff I don't want.
I make a mix = potassium chloride + sea salt + palm sugar + baking soda.
You have to experiment at first, see what is best for you. Or copy the recipe of your favourite electrolyte drink without the additives.

Asklipia

 

[alex3619]

I think the problem is that the mito dysfunction lowers the rate of production of ATP, and that robs the sodium-potassium ATPase membrane ion pumps of their energy supply, so that they are not able to maintain intracellular potassium levels as high as normal, even though the blood serum potassium level might be fine.

Hi Rich, I do not disagree with you, but I think there is still more. Currently my focus is on the possibility of increased numbers of calcium gated potassium channels, including in the lining of the blood vessels of the gut. This is only a tentative hypothesis. However, I am working on how this can tie methylation, oxidative stress, OI and ME relapse all into one mechanism. More may follow if I can sort out the bugs in the model. Bye, Alex

 

[xrunner]

Visible features associated with lack of usable iron affect the finger and toe nails. They can become brittle and fragile with longitudinal ridges. These are due to the change in the bodys Na/K ratio, allowing calcium to precipitate out of suspension from the blood and accumulate in the soft tissues like the nails. Also can be observed are transverse recessed grooves in the nails. These reflect inability to use iron; changing back and forth from a high degree of deficiency to a more moderate degree of deficiency. The nail normally grows from beginning to end in 6 months so where you see the indents, can normally indicate a more stressful period in your life, which drops the level of B2, leading to less use of iron, which the nails (thumb or toe nails) indicate. In continuous, severe deficiency, the nails become thin, flattening and finally develop koilonychia, concave or spoon-shaped nails.

I've had vertical ridges on my nails for ages but those have improved since I started eating yogurt on a daily basis. I still have some but not as marked as they used to be. I also noticed they've become stronger and quite shiny. So all seemed going nicely until this morning.

I noticed horizontal ridges on my big toenails, about three on each. The other nails have some but not so deep.
They must have grown very recently because last time I looked closely, there weren't any. Or may be they weren't noticeable.
Does anybody have those? Any idea of what the cause of that might be?

I've recently removed all my amalgams and I was feeling fine. I then started the Andy Cutler's frequent-dose mercury chelation protocol (also following the related support protocol) and have had some symptoms of mercury detox but manageable. Also on the SMP. And few days ago I started a trial of B2, 12.5 mg twice a day and, apart from weird dreams, no other noticeable reaction to that.
Not sure if any of the above could have an effect.

PS:
Dog Person,
thank you very much for helping with the interpretation of my results.

 

[ahimsa]

I also need to find a source of electrolytes, that has a good mix including potassium, because I need both potassium and magnesium to manage my PVC's. I was drinking 4-6 packs of Emergen-C/day, but now that I see that it contains a mix of things that might interfere with B2, including folic acid, I feel like I should find another source. If someone has an idea about this, please let me know.

As others suggested, with your restrictions on what can be included you may be better off mixing up your own version.

But just in case it might work, check out Pedialyte or some generic/store version. Here's what's on the label for an unflavored (no colors, no flavors) bottle of "W Pediatric Electrolyte" (Walgreens generic version of Pedialtye):

Ingredients: Water, Dextrose, Potassium Citrate, Sodium Chloride, Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate, Zinc Gluconate.

W Pediatric Electrolyte Provides (per liter):

Sodium, 45 mEq
Potassium, 20 mEq
Chloride, 35 mEq
Zinc, 7.8 mg
Dextrose, 25 grams
Calories, 100

Note - I just noticed that this version has a little "with zinc" label. So, if zinc is a problem for you there's also a version without zinc.

 

[anne_likes_red]

DB I posted a recipe - search "electrolyte drink" a year or so ago?
Just double check you're using aluminium free bicarbonate of soda.
Best, Anne.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Thanks Anne. I will search it.

Ahimsa--no way I can drink DEXTROSE.

 

[ahimsa]

Ahimsa--no way I can drink DEXTROSE.

Okay, sorry to hear that. You listed several other problems with the Nuun tablet ingredients but didn't highlight sorbitol as one of the problems. So, I thought sweeteners were okay in small amounts (esp. since I thought more people had problems with sorbitol than with dextrose).

May I ask what the problem is with dextrose/glucose? I don't doubt you, I'm just curious. Thanks!

PS. Sorry if this is drifting off topic, I'll stop now.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Okay, sorry to hear that. You listed several other problems with the Nuun tablet ingredients but didn't highlight sorbitol as one of the problems. So, I thought sweeteners were okay in small amounts (esp. since I thought more people had problems with sorbitol than with dextrose).

May I ask what the problem is with dextrose/glucose? I don't doubt you, I'm just curious. Thanks!

PS. Sorry if this is drifting off topic, I'll stop now.

I just forgot to highlight it.

Dextrose just doesn't work for me.

 

[Jenny]

Jenny,

If I take your post literally - then nothing is wrong with you since all the extensive tests you've had run say this. Your knowledge of what I know is limited, thus your statements. I am sad for this. You think I am wrong, that you can not be in a state of fight of flight but this is what occurs when anything happens to the body - from mental, physical or emotional. Iron is used in white blood cells to fight infection. Copper is used to access oxygen for fleeing. I can't change the laws of nature - this is how it works.

If I took what you said to heart, I would just leave and not say anymore.

Hi Dog Person

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. I simply said that the tests I've had done don't show any nutritional imbalances. There is definitely something badly wrong though - I've been ill for most of the last 30 years, and other tests show various abnormalities common in people with ME.

In your earlier post, you made the assertion that people with ME have nutritional imbalances and are in a state of fight or flight. (I think this latter term needs defining operationally by the way.) You then stated that this leads us to develop certain personality traits. I'm not saying you are 'wrong' about anything - just asking what your evidence is for these assertions. As a psychologist, I know of no research that shows that particular nutritional deficiencies lead to the development of certain personality traits in people with ME, or that people with ME have certain dysfunctional personality traits. But I would be very interested to read any studies that show this if you can direct me to them.

Jenny

 

[brenda]

Magnesium deficiency linked to psychiatric problems

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7800167

 

[Jenny]

Magnesium deficiency linked to psychiatric problems

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7800167

Interesting Brenda. These were psychiatric in-patients though and Mg deficiency was linked to them being more disturbed. I don't think these findings can be extrapolated to ME patients.

Jenny

 

[Dog Person]

Disclaimer: It is understood that nutritional balancing therapy is not intended as a diagnosis or prescription or to treat, cure or prevent any disease or health condition, physical or mental. Any nutritional balancing information offered should be considered as general information only. Nutritional balancing information offered is also not intended as a substitute for regular medical care. See your health care provided for diagnosis and treatment of any medical concerns you may have, and before implementing any diet, supplement, exercise or other lifestyle changes. Nutritional balancing is to be used at your own risk. Any alterations, changes or substitutions made to nutritional balancing suggestions are taken at your own risk.

 

[Valentijn]

I do NOT agree with the sites that Kina has listed. This is her words, not mine.

Your statement has really upset me. You could cause harm to people here if they went to these sites and tried what those people suggest because they think I believe in them! Had you considered this? I don't even know what to say at this point.

You were once (January 1, 2010) listed on Dr Wilson's site as one of the "NUTRITIONAL BALANCING PRACTITIONERS WHO SPECIALIZE IN VETERINARY WORK". This page no longer exists, but is still available via Google as a cached page.

Getting on Dr. Lawrence's lists of practitioners requires completing the basic course (pay $500, read his books, and email answers to a test), and advanced training (consulting with him or an advanced student regarding interpretation of actual results). Advanced training is free, so long as the student only uses Analytical Research Laboratories and buys enough of their products.

Because you were once on his website, it is therefore reasonable to assume you were trained by him in the above-mentioned manner, especially since you have not provided any other account of how you were trained in hair analysis. And if you were trained by him, it is also reasonable to assume that you agreed with the information on his site at some point in time.

 

[Jarod]

You were once (January 1, 2010) listed on Dr Wilson's site as one of the "NUTRITIONAL BALANCING PRACTITIONERS WHO SPECIALIZE IN VETERINARY WORK". This page no longer exists, but is still available via Google as a cached page.

Getting on Dr. Lawrence's lists of practitioners requires completing the basic course (pay $500, read his books, and email answers to a test), and advanced training (consulting with him or an advanced student regarding interpretation of actual results). Advanced training is free, so long as the student only uses Analytical Research Laboratories and buys enough of their products.

Because you were once on his website, it is therefore reasonable to assume you were trained by him in the above-mentioned manner, especially since you have not provided any other account of how you were trained in hair analysis. And if you were trained by him, it is also reasonable to assume that you agreed with the information on his site at some point in time.

I didn't see where Dog Person offered her information publicly on this forum. Could you please direct me to the post where you figured out who he/she is?

Thanks,
Jarod

 

[Valentijn]

I didn't see where Dog Person offered her information publicly on this forum. Could you please direct me to the post where you figured out who he/she is?

I found that information via Google, using search terms consisting solely of information that she has posted in this thread.