Gut Bacteria Protect Brain from Viruses

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
12,796
Likes
23,551
Perhaps, @ljimbo423, it tmight be better to keep to the known facts to begin with. For example, you could say to people: "After taking basil, olive leaf extract, ceylon cinnamon, thyme, oil of oregano, neem, cumin and clove powder daily for two years, I moved up from moderate ME/CFS to mostly mild ME/CFS."

That's a statement of fact that is unarguable.

Then you can provide you own interpretation as to why those herbs helped, saying for example: "My theory is that these herbs improved my ME/CFS via their antibacterial effects in the gut".



But just for the sake of your own health, you might like to investigate the other physiological effects these herbs have. Because if the benefits you experienced were due to some other physiological effect, if you can have an educated guess at what that is, you may be able to find other medications which can further augment that effect, and thus further improve your health.

The fact the probiotics, prebiotics and antibiotics did not help you does not seem to support your view that it's the gut at the center of your ME/CFS. So there may be other reasons why these herbs helped you.

@Wishful for example finds that a level teaspoon of cumin prevents him from getting PEM from physical exertion. The mechanism is unknown, but it's something to consider. Olive leaf extract has an effect on the complement system (part of the immune system), strongly inhibiting the classical arm of the complement system. Just some ideas for you.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
1,688
Likes
2,711
I'll add that after discovering that cumin affected my ME (it reduced all my ME symptoms the first week or two I tried it), I tried to identify the active compound. I found a list of the chemicals it contained, and tried other herbs that had some of those. None of them worked. I'm pretty sure it was cuminaldehyde, but I didn't have access to another herb with that, and before I could find one the effect faded away. It was only many years later that I discovered that cumin could block my PEM, and that is still working reliably, though it does have limits (I overdid activity recently).

So yes, herbs contain multiple chemicals, which affect the body in multiple ways. You can't just say 'they're all antibacterial, therefore they work by reducing bad gut bacteria'. Cinnamon and a number of other spices and herbs reliably make my symptoms worse. I think it's their peroxynitrite scavenging effect, but I'm certainly not 100% sure. I could experiment (nope :pem:) with more herbs and spices and get a better statistical value, or I could try to find a pure chemical that had fewer possible effects than peroxynitrite scavenging, but unless it was going to directly influence research, it's not worth the extra suffering.
 
Messages
32
Likes
31
About flavonoids, I read that antioxidants in flavonoids can help cancer cells to multiply. Also, too much of antioxidants may compromise body's own mechanism of producing antioxidants.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/antioxidants-may-make-cancer-worse/

I took 2.5 gms of BCAA empty stomach. I hope this was correct way to take it.

I have hyperacidity (started after taking cipro and tinidazole for prostatitis) and few known triggers for mast cells in my case like vinegar, tomatoes, few spices also trigger gastric issues, scratchy throat and itching in ears. Also, I sleep 14 hrs a day. Anything that worsens acidity or pain will worsen fatigue/energy level. So trial and error with diet helped me identify few triggers like ginger which caused scratchy throat and I fall asleep (couldn't find such intolerance online). Rhodiola rosea helps with energy but irritates gut causing acidity. Ribose leads to drowsiness. Even meal leads to sleepiness but doctors couldn't diagnose insulin resistance. My sugar decreases after meals may be linked to my gut issues. This is hell condition and when you get no clue to improve your condition it becomes more challenging.

Regards,
Np