Detox is 99% something else. It is almost always hypokalemia and/or paradoxical folate deficiency. Detox as commonly explained is 99% nonsense. If I'm right and you try those other things you may be reasoanably recovered in a year or two. The "detox" hypothesis doesn't lead to that.
I already quoted Rich's post about his explanation on detox symptoms related to methylation. I don't know how broadly his theory applies to people in general. Unfortunately he's unable to clarify his position on that matter now, but there are probably a lot of posts by him floating around on different threads where some insight can be gleaned. I think it's great that there are different points of view because groupthink is usually not a good thing. I certainly don't want to get into a debate about who is right and who is wrong. One thing he did say only a few months ago (Fall 2012) in discussing his Revised Simplified Methylation Protocol:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ation-protocol-august-25-2012-revision.19050/
For people who suspect high body burdens of toxic metals, tests involving feces, urine and hair are available. High levels of some toxic metals can block enzymes in the methylation cycle and related pathways. Chelation treatment may be necessary to lower the levels enough to permit normal operation of this part of the metabolism.
High heavy metals body burdens can interfere with rebooting the methylation cycle, the reason being that several of the heavy metals bind to sulfur atoms, and the methylation cycle is at the beginning of the sulfur metabolism. So if heavy metals are high, they can block several of the enzymes in this part of the metabolism. In our clinical study, we had an 84-year-old lady who didn't respond to several months of methylation treatment, but then, when Dr. Nathan added chelation with DMPS and DMSA, she bounced right up, and was able to go on a trip to Paris with her friends. So, yes, heavy metals can be a big blocker of this type of treatment.
I didn't want to include to much of my history in my post since I had already posted that information in other threads, but now I see it's necessary. I'll try to give you a better idea of what's been going on and maybe we can sort through this.
I use the term "detox" because the first period where I experienced overstimulation I wasn't taking any of those supplements mentioned except a high dose of vitamin C. However, I was taking long, very hot baths twice a day which caused toxins to be released in my body. By toxins I am partially referring to mercury and copper from my amalgams which I had put in a year before that. Also, I have Lyme disease and found out recently that very hot baths can cause a herxheimer reaction.
The overstimulation started around Spring/Summer 2010 which I don't believe was caused by any supplements. Then from around January 2011 - Summer 2012 I was slowly improving. I attribute a huge part of my partial recovery to getting enough sleep (10+ hours) and limiting my activities (spending most of the in bed). However, I was taking a lot of the supplements you mention.
The supplements being considered here are methylcobalamin, adenosylcobalamin, hydroxycobalamin, cyanocobalamin, folic acid, folinic acid, Metafolin-methylfolate, SAM-e, L-carnitine, glutathione, NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), Cerefolin-NAC, Whey, Metanx, Deplin.
More rarely Vitamins D – A - C, magnesium, zinc, p5p
All of these are flags indicating healing is occurring. Minimizing nervous system response reduces or stops healing, especially of the nervous system. Minimizing ATP response prevents normalization of biochemistry.
1 - Low potassium, almost everybody when healing starts. – often called “detox”
2 - Low folate symptoms even with small doses of Metafolin – often called “detox”
3 - Nervous system activation, everything is perceived as more intense – often called “detox”
4 – ATP activation, everything is more energetic and intense – often called “detox"
Glutathione + Precursers
Reduced Glutathione sublingual (100mg) divided into 2 doses
Alpha Lipoic Acid (1200mg) divided into 2 doses
NAC (1200mg) divided into 2 doses
Vitamin C (4000mg) divided into a few doses
Molybdenum (300-400mcg) divided into a few doses
Selenium (300-400mcg) divided into a few doses
TMG (650-1300mg) divided into 3 doses
MSM (4000mg) divided into 2 doses
L-Glutamine (4000mg) divided into 3 doses
L-Glycine (4000mg) divided into 3 doses
ATP
Vitamin C (4000mg) divided into a few doses
Magnesium Malate or Malic Acid + Magnesium
D-Ribose (10-15g) divided into 3 doses
Coenzyme Q10 (400mg) divided into 4 doses
Acetyl L Carnitine (2000mg) divided into 4 doses
Alpha Lipoic Acid (1200mg) divided into 2 doses
Other things mentioned in regards to methylation
P5P, Vitamin A, Vitamin D 7500 IU, Zinc (over 40mg) divided into a few doses,
Melatonin (3mg)
Then at the end of September 2012 my tooth with an amalgam cracked. By pure coincedence I had temporarily stopped almost all these supplements in the weeks and months prior to when my tooth cracked because I wasn't sure I needed them and wanted to see what happened when I stopped. After my tooth was removed I started taking them again because I thought they would help me heal since I had infections when my wisdom teeth were removed. Also, another coincedence is that about 2 days after my tooth was removed I started taking B Right with methylfolate. I had been taking B Right twice a day for over a year without any problems, but in the new bottle they changed the formula so now it had methylfolate. Even though folic acid is supposed to block methylfolate I still seemed to react to it. It took me over a month to figure out was was going on and only after reading about methylation. Otherwise I might not have figured it out for a long time. I read the symptoms you listed for Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency and I don't believe that applies to me, but I don't want to rule anything out at this point.
I stopped the B Right supplement and just took regular B complex. I also cut way back on Coenzyme Q10 and Magnesium Malate which increased my symptoms of anxiety and overstimulation. I did continue to take low doses of Carnitine L Fumarate, Alpha Lipoic Acid, and NAC. I continued taking Vitamin C, a Glutathione sublingual, and Curcumin (which I found out just last week was a methyl donor). This was the period where I experienced the stoned feeling. I attribute the feeling partially to Prozac and Carnitine Fumarate, but there was probably synergy with various other supplements I was taking. I don't know what your experience is with drugs, but for me the "stoned feeling" is very pleasurable. Part of it was fatigue as well since I hadn't been sleeping well every since my medication had changed 4-5 months before that.
Now that heart palpitation thing is often caused by low potassium along with a lot of other symtpoms usualy called "detox" As hypokalemia they can be relieved in hours. As "detox" they an kill you becasue you don't take care of the hypokalemia. Also, twice a day b-complex is also somethoines the key to stopping the palpitations.
I was wondering about that because I have seen a few potassium threads which has scared me from trying methylation. I had licorice tea a few times in the last few months which increased the overstimulation and licorice is supposed to lower potassium. I will try looking into that more in the next few days. Reading the symptoms you list though, only heart palpitations and increased pulse were ones I've experienced. I do realize it's good to be cautious so I have been taking extra potassium, but I am confused about the dosage and am also concerned about taking too much potassium because that can be dangerous as well. I know there are a lot of threads discussing it so I will read more on that before I go too far ahead in methylation.
I also just started taking a high dose of Niacinamide because I believe I am overmethylating so hopefully that will keep things from out of hand. I know there are different opinions on that, but that's my present course of action until I have more information.
I do plan to continue attempts at methylation, but I'm going to do it at a very slow pace and also treat my other health issues at the same time (adrenals, Lyme, heavy metals) because I don't believe methylation to be a cure-all (at least for me).
Once I started taking active B12 and increased my dosage on some other supplements the stimulation gradually began to return. From what I've read sometimes it takes a few days or weeks for it to build up which is why I'm planing on doing things slower now. Even though I'm overstimulated again I'm not experiencing the heart palpitations (I have been taking extra potassium so that might be helping, but I haven't seen definitive evidence yet). I also, my overstimulation is much more focused now. I feel like I did when I used to take ADD medication (which are stimulants for those who don't know). Although the overstimulation isn't as uncomfortable as in the past I know my body needs rest. That's how I healed myself in the past and I plan on taking measures to do that again.