Favorite Choline?

ahmo

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I've been using BodyBio phosphatidyl choline for the past 6 months. I was convinced to begin this version after reading info and watching a vid posted on the Mitochondrial 101 threads by radio. The falling Aus dollar and, seemingly, astronomical increase in postage, now put this product out of my reach.

I've also read some references to citicholine. And Martin Pall seems to favor phos serine. His list says,
Other phosphatidyl polyunsaturated lipids—this and the phosphatidyl choline are predicted to help restore the oxidatively damaged mitochondrial inner membrane

I don't know whether these things are interchangeable . Do you have a favorite brand/form of choline? Thanks for your help.
 
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maryb

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Anyone recommend a brand, some of them really do contain a lot of C#ap.ugh
 

ahmo

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@adreno So citicholine does the same job as phosphotidyl? If so, I'm on to it. And I'm a fan of Healthy Origins brand. Thanks.

OK, I see Wikipedia says It is an intermediate in the generation of phosphatidylcholine from choline.

And Ray Sahelian says, In a way, you could consider CDP-choline as a more potent form of choline. Studies show that CDP-choline helps make phosphatidylcholine in human brain cell membranes in older individuals; may increase acetylcholine synthesis; improves mental performance in patients with Alzheimer's disease; and even improves memory in elderly patients with memory deficits. A Belgian study has shown that CDP-choline administration to dogs improves their ability to learn and remember.

Thanks adreno, yesterday I just couldn't face another research project.:rolleyes:
 
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adreno

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Here's a review of citicoline:

Citicoline: pharmacological and clinical review, 2006 update.
Authors
Secades JJ1, Lorenzo JL.
Author information
Journal
Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. 2006 Sep;28 Suppl B:1-56.

Abstract
Cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine, CDP-choline, or citicoline is an essential intermediate in the biosynthetic pathway of structural phospholipids in cell membranes, particularly phosphatidylcholine.

Following administration by both the oral and parenteral routes, citicoline releases its two main components, cytidine and choline. Absorption by the oral route is virtually complete, and bioavailability by the oral route is therefore approximately the same as by the intravenous route.

Once absorbed, citicoline is widely distributed throughout the body, crosses the blood-brain barrier and reaches the central nervous system (CNS), where it is incorporated into the membrane and microsomal phospholipid fraction.

Citicoline activates biosynthesis of structural phospholipids of neuronal membranes, increases brain metabolism, and acts upon the levels of different neurotransmitters. Thus, citicoline has been experimentally shown to increase norepinephrine and dopamine levels in the CNS.

Owing to these pharmacological mechanisms, citicoline has a neuroprotective effect in hypoxic and ischemic conditions, decreasing the volume of ischemic lesion, and also improves learning and memory performance in animal models of brain aging.

In addition, citicoline has been shown to restore the activity of mitochondrial ATPase and membrane Na+/K+ATPase, to inhibit activation of certain phospholipases, and to accelerate reabsorption of cerebral edema in various experimental models.

Citicoline has also been shown to be able to inhibit mechanisms of apoptosis associated to cerebral ischemia and in certain neurodegeneration models, and to potentiate neuroplasticity mechanisms.

Citicoline is a safe drug, as shown by the toxicological tests conducted, that has no significant systemic cholinergic effects and is a well tolerated product.

These pharmacological characteristics and the action mechanisms of citicoline suggest that this product may be indicated for treatment of cerebral vascular disease, head trauma (HT) of varying severity, and cognitive disorders of different causes.

In studies conducted in the treatment of patients with HT, citicoline was able to accelerate recovery from post-traumatic coma and neurological deficits, achieving an improved final functional outcome, and to shorten hospital stay in these patients. Citicoline also improved the mnesic and cognitive disorders seen after HT of minor severity that constitute the so-called post-concussional syndrome. In the treatment of patients with acute ischemic cerebral vascular disease, citicoline accelerates recovery of consciousness and motor deficit, achieves a better final outcome, and facilitates rehabilitation of these patients.

The other major indication of citicoline is for treatment of senile cognitive impairment, either secondary to degenerative diseases (e.g. Alzheimer disease) or to chronic cerebral vascular disease. In patients with chronic cerebral ischemia, citicoline improves scores in cognitive rating scales, while in patients with senile dementia of the Alzheimer type it stops the course of disease, and neuroendocrine, neuroimmunomodulatory, and neurophysiological benefits have been reported.

Citicoline has also been shown to be effective in Parkinson disease, drug addictions, and alcoholism, as well as in amblyopia and glaucoma. No serious side effects have occurred in any series of patients treated with citicoline, which attests to the safety of treatment with citicoline.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17171187/
 

adreno

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@adreno So citicholine does the same job as phosphotidyl? If so, I'm on to it. And I'm a fan of Healthy Origins brand. Thanks.

OK, I see Wikipedia says It is an intermediate in the generation of phosphatidylcholine from choline.

And Ray Sahelian says, In a way, you could consider CDP-choline as a more potent form of choline. Studies show that CDP-choline helps make phosphatidylcholine in human brain cell membranes in older individuals; may increase acetylcholine synthesis; improves mental performance in patients with Alzheimer's disease; and even improves memory in elderly patients with memory deficits. A Belgian study has shown that CDP-choline administration to dogs improves their ability to learn and remember.

Thanks adreno, yesterday I just couldn't face another research project.:rolleyes:
Citicoline and Alpha GPC are both far superior to Phosphatidylcholine. The evidence of Phosphatidylcholine being helpful for anything but liver disease is poor, no matter how much they try to hype their marketing.
 

Sidereal

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I had been using Nutricology's NT Factor chewables (without mitochondrial supps, just PC/PS) and it made me feel better for a while (after the initial adjustment period of a couple of weeks when I found it sedating and brain fog inducing). After a while I stopped noticing any effects from it.

I started Citicoline today.
 

ahmo

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@adreno
Absorption by the oral route is virtually complete, and bioavailability by the oral route is therefore approximately the same as by the intravenous route.

Once absorbed, citicoline is widely distributed throughout the body, crosses the blood-brain barrier and reaches the central nervous system (CNS), where it is incorporated into the membrane and microsomal phospholipid fraction.

Citicoline activates biosynthesis of structural phospholipids of neuronal membranes, increases brain metabolism, and acts upon the levels of different neurotransmitters....
Not only BIG $ savings, but the most efficient form. I am so glad I asked!!! ...and you responded. :love:
 

ahmo

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@August59 Thanks for this interesting article. Looks like I'll have to look a little deeper. I'm a sympathetic type, tendency toward over-active nervous system, so it could be GPC is better for me.

I saw your status re in a crash. I'm sorry to hear that. You might be interested in Martin Pall's suggestions re oxidative stress. It's been the latest strategy for me, keeping me just on the edge of the abyss of crashing. Feels like the first time I've been able to manage myself on this sort of edge. The website lists supps that have been very helpful for me. The vid seems to have a more up-to-date list, 20 minutes before the end, on printed slides. Vid is 1 year old. Best wishes to you.

Martin Pall website http://www.thetenthparadigm.org/therapy.htm

Martin Pall vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-...yer_detailpage&x-yt-cl=84503534&v=6A7r1gemjto
 

adreno

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In my experience, Alpha GPC is a pure cholinergic, whereas citicoline also affects dopamine.

Alpha GPC gave me headache, muscle tension and depression, signs of acetylcholine overload, but I know others do well with it.

Citicoline works like a mild stimulant. It helps with concentration (ADHD type problems), which pure cholinergics often does not.

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. Or try both and see which one you like.
 
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Only vaguely related so sorry to hijack, but are Choline + Insotil regarded as fundamental supplements on Freddd's protocol? I've seen a few B complexes that contain them but mine does not. Am wondering if I need them and at what general dosage? I'm already taking lecithin
 

aturtles

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Only vaguely related so sorry to hijack, but are Choline + Insotil regarded as fundamental supplements on Freddd's protocol? I've seen a few B complexes that contain them but mine does not. Am wondering if I need them and at what general dosage? I'm already taking lecithin
Freddd has said yes to choline and inositol. How much or which kind of choline, he isn't specifying. (Yet.)
 

pogoman

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I've been using BodyBio phosphatidyl choline for the past 6 months. I was convinced to begin this version after reading info and watching a vid posted on the Mitochondrial 101 threads by radio. The falling Aus dollar and, seemingly, astronomical increase in postage, now put this product out of my reach.

I've also read some references to citicholine. And Martin Pall seems to favor phos serine. His list says,
Other phosphatidyl polyunsaturated lipids—this and the phosphatidyl choline are predicted to help restore the oxidatively damaged mitochondrial inner membrane

I don't know whether these things are interchangeable . Do you have a favorite brand/form of choline? Thanks for your help.
I use standard choline bitartrate for its mitochondrial benefits in cell energy and preventing fatigue after exertion.
Choline is also a methly donor and helps with C677T MTHFR issues.
Phosphatidyl choline is lower in choline content than the betartrate form.
Right now I'm trying out Bulk Supplements choline, it comes in a powder that I mix in with other supplements twice a day.

If you are using choline for mito energy benefits you may want to combine it with L-carnitine and optionly with caffeine.
This combo is known as a CCC stack and has been used in the muscle building community.

Oregon State University has a Linus Pauling Institute that has some informative pages on choline and other B related vitamins and supplements.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/othernuts/choline/
 

ahmo

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@pogoman I used choline bitartrate for some time. I've read it's not good for heart. that's when I went back to phos. form. Now moving on, pretty sure I'll try citicoline next, then maybe Alpha GPC. I use 2 forms carnitine, but no caffeine. thx.